"At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women"

[Stan53]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Stan53:

I can definitely understand what you are saying.

I think there is also an element of it maybe going either way in terms of people's consciences/preferences. Some people maybe have read the passages, such as Romans 14 re. Christian liberty, and still might not want to do it. Others — and the several women in handy's conservative church might well come into this category — may have considered it carefully in the light of Scripture and have definitely felt free to receive tattoos.

Blessings.

Absolutely...no one is forced to do anything they don't want to. God deals with ALL based on our uniqueness. We are under a New Covenant, where we are supposed to be governed by the Holy Spirit.

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because this Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. Tattoos also are not socially acceptable either and those who have them are an easy target to get shunned by society.

for his glory:

Some interesting thoughts; and I think your sympathy would be with people who might have tatts. that other people don't like and might look down on them for?

I think this is what you mean, right?

Blessings.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

I don't have a lot of time to post during the week, so I just pop in and out as I can...)

Again, can I ask whether you really think a pastor's wife or a soccer mom with a Bible ref. on her wrist is indicative of a likely drunkard or someone who likely cheats on her husband? (These are not my perceived, they are yours, more or less.)

No that's not it. You're missing the point.

The point is, when Ms. Pole Dancer sees Mr. and Mrs. Christian endorsing the art of tattooing in even the most innocent of ways it can be more of a signal of God's acceptance of her sinful lifestyle than a sign that God loves and accepts her.

In Romans 14, who has the obligation to keep hidden, for the sake of another, what they believe to be true about indulging a debatable behavior, the one who indulges, convinced in his own mind it's okay, or the one who thinks we shouldn't? You know the answer, but you insist the freer person has a right to do what he knows in his heart to be right. That's not what Paul says. Paul says consideration for others (love) forgoes their freedom to do what they want in the matter.

I can't think of a single case in the church where the church decided to forgo freedoms--freedoms they were sure they could indulge--for the sake of those who by conviction of conscience don't think the church should indulge. The world's fight for personal rights and freedoms without thought for others is just another example of how the world has polluted the church. Tattoos, and this mad 'talent search' attitude, are big examples of how the love of the world seems to be forever making ground in the church.

What bothers me about tattoos is they are popular among women because it's part of this growing fascination with the sexuality of women in our society. Sadly, Christians are eating it up almost as voraciously as the world. I don't see any problem whatsoever with a woman doing things to herself to heighten passion between her and her husband. But when that sexualization is broadcast so openly, like the world does, we got a problem. I don't need, or want to see the tattoos, or the barely covered up boob job that a woman got to make things more exciting in the bedroom for her and her husband (when that's the case for tattoos--which I think is more common than many will admit). That's between them. But somehow Christian women (and men) think it's okay to put these kinds of things on display for others to see, too. Dead wrong...and hardly representative of the godly modesty God wants all of us to have...especially women!

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

I don't have a lot of time to post during the week, so I just pop in and out as I can...)


No that's not it. You're missing the point.

The point is, when Ms. Pole Dancer sees Mr. and Mrs. Christian endorsing the art of tattooing in even the most innocent of ways it can be more of a signal of God's acceptance of her sinful lifestyle than a sign that God loves and accepts her.

In Romans 14, who has the obligation to not flaunt what they believe to be true about indulging a debatable behavior, the one who indulges, convinced in his own mind it's okay, or the one who thinks we shouldn't?

I can't think of a single case in the church where the church decided to forgo freedoms--freedoms they were sure they could indulge--for the sake of those who by conviction of conscience don't think the church should indulge. The world's fight for personal rights and freedoms without thought for others is just another example of how the world has polluted the church. Tattoos, and this mad 'talent search' attitude, are big examples of how the love of the world seems to be forever making ground in the church.

What bothers me about tattoos is they are popular among women because it's part of this growing fascination with the sexuality of women in our society. Sadly, Christians are eating it up almost as voraciously as the world. I don't see any problem whatsoever with a woman doing things to herself to heighten passion between her and her husband. But when that sexualization is broadcast so openly, like the world does, we got a problem. I don't need, or want to see the tattoos, or the barely covered up boob job that a woman got to make things more exciting in the bedroom for her and her husband (when that's the case for tattoos--which I think is more common than many will admit). That's between them. But somehow Christian women (and men) think it's okay to put these kinds of things on display for others to see, too. Dead wrong...and hardly representative of the godly modesty God wants all of us to have...especially women!

Jethro:

Well, of course it's not right to be deliberately provocative, but, again, please:

How is it provocative for a pastor's wife or a soccer mom, etc. to have a Bible verse on her wrist?

If somehow this were offensive, or immoral or whatever, then I could understand it maybe, but how can it be?

I asked you this before, and you don't have to answer me of course, but I think you are lumping together apples and oranges. Because someone's tattoo somewhere might be disagreeable and unsuitable, you seem to be saying that therefore all tattoos everywhere are supposedly of the same character.

Everyone has the right to silence. But how is a faith related tattoo on a wrist, a very popular placement for women, of the character that you seem to insist it is? I just don't follow you, sorry.

This is from an article by Lisa Plummer, (yahoo voices):
'in a statement to National Geographic News, Erin Fauble of the Professional Alliance of Tattooists said, "If I had to guess, I would say that maybe 60 percent of the tattoos being done are being done on women." .. Zak Huff, artist and owner of Inkspot Tattoos (said: ) "Now, most of my clientele are female." '

It just cannot be said that because someone's tattoo somewhere may be offensive and unhelpful, then therefore supposedly everyone's tattoo design and placement everywhere, including those of all women, who now make up the main parlor clientele — including even unobtrusive faith related designs obtained by Godly women — are the same.

I just don't get it.

Blessings.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Jethro:

Well, of course it's not right to be deliberately provocative, but, again, please:

How is it provocative for a pastor's wife or a soccer mom, etc. to have a Bible verse on her wrist?

If somehow this were offensive, or immoral or whatever, then I could understand it maybe, but how can it be?

Just substitute 'getting a tattoo' in place of 'meat sacrificed to an idol' in Romans 14 and then you'll 'hear' what I'm saying.

According to Romans 14, how is it profitable to have even an innocent symbol of your freedom to eat meat sacrificed to an idol showing where a person who God wants to call out of pagan worship can see it? Does doing that (indulging your freedom to eat meat sacrificed to idols) do more to persuade that person to leave their idol worship, or help them think it's okay to continue in their worship of idols after they become a Christian?

If you can answer that correctly according to Romans 14, then you can get what I'm saying.

I asked you this before, and you don't have to answer me of course, but I think you are lumping together apples and oranges. Because someone's tattoo somewhere might be disagreeable and unsuitable, you seem to be saying that therefore all tattoos everywhere are supposedly of the same character.

Everyone has the right to silence. But how is a faith related tattoo on a wrist, a very popular placement for women, of the character that you seem to insist it is? I just don't follow you, sorry.

Don't confuse the two different things I shared in my last post.

I can't stay off the clock too long to post...gotta get back to my brain surgeries. They're starting to stack up.

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Just substitute 'getting a tattoo' in place of 'meat sacrificed to an idol' in Romans 14 and then you'll 'hear' what I'm saying.

According to Romans 14, how is it profitable to have even an innocent symbol of your freedom to eat meat sacrificed to an idol showing where a person who God wants to call out of pagan worship can see it? Does doing that (indulging your freedom to eat meat sacrificed to idols) do more to persuade that person to leave their idol worship, or help them think it's okay to continue in their worship of idols after they become a Christian?

If you can answer that correctly according to Romans 14, then you can get what I'm saying.




Don't confuse the two different things I shared in my last post.

I can't stay off the clock too long to post...gotta get back to my brain surgeries. They're starting to stack up.

Jethro:

Yes, in Romans 14, meat sacrificed to idols means that the meat was identified with idols and so it was to be avoided because the person did not want to identify with the idol, before other people, even though the person wasn't actually engaging in the practices..

So you are saying that the tattoo is like the meat, and immorality is like the idol, I guess.

What you say might indeed apply if a tattoo in its message identified with immorality or false doctrine in its nature or message.

This would indeed be sound exegesis, yes.

But I think you are also going a stage further and saying that therefore, supposedly, ALL tattoos, even if the placement is benign and the message is wholesome and God honoring, is like meat connected with idols. Frankly, this is going beyond what Romans 14 is saying, I think. It seems to be veering into eisegesis, putting meaning into the text.

Romans 14 also says, let everyone be fully persuaded in his or her own mind. In other words, it becomes a matter of conscience. We can't project our individual consciences onto someone else's.

Blessings.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Romans 14 also says, let everyone be fully persuaded in his or her own mind. In other words, it becomes a matter of conscience. We can't project our individual consciences onto someone else's.

Blessings.

YES!

And so what does Paul say we are to do in regard to those things we ourselves are not bound by conscience to avoid? The answer is there in Romans 14, but don't weary yourself looking for where the church practices this concern, this love, for others. And you certainly won't have to weary yourself to see how the church is quick to exert it's right to do what it feels it has every right and freedom to do.

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

YES!

And so what does Paul say we are to do in regard to those things we ourselves are not bound by conscience to avoid? The answer is there in Romans 14, but don't weary yourself looking for where the church practices this concern, this love, for others. And you certainly won't have to weary yourself to see how the church is quick to exert it's right to do what it feels it has every right and freedom to do.

Jethro:

...and it works both ways. You can't just assume and project your assumption that someone is thinking bad things about someone else who has not overtly identified himself or herself with something bad, and then suggest that other people are bound by your assumption. (I don't necessarily think you are consciously doing this, but what I come back to is that it is very, very hard to establish even obscure linkages between something such as a Bible verse on the wrist of a pastor's wife or soccer mom, and something bad.)

Blessings.

 

[joethemechanic]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

I'm with Jethro on this one.

 

[reba]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

reba:

Thanks for your comment, but I don't quite follow what you are saying or asking here?

Blessings.

PS: And I'm sure your amount of ear piercings are out of preference rather than because there is supposedly chapter and verse about such a subjective issue.

Seems we Christians ( and i do mean all of us) pick and choose which passages of scripture we wish to adhere to. God tells us plainly Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Yet i read Christians every day here in the forums implying or out right saying things like the OT is not for today,we are free, and yes, but i see the guide lines still there.

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Seems we Christians ( and i do mean all of us) pick and choose which passages of scripture we wish to adhere to. God tells us plainly Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Yet i read Christians every day here in the forums implying or out right saying things like the OT is not for today,we are free, and yes, but i see the guide lines still there.

reba:

So do I; the Scriptures are wonderfully whole and cohesive, albeit with developing revelation, time periods and contexts.

The chapter you referred to — and your comment is appreciated — also seems to refer to shaving. It's hard for a man to apply cutting for the dead etc to tattoos if by the same token a man shaves. The question of context does arise, I think.

Blessings.

joe: Well, okay .

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

"But it's only a bible verse"

See where it can lead

joe:

With respect, Joe: I think you are being deliberately provocative, showing the crack of a lady's posterior.

If you would read some of the previous posts, it has been mentioned various times that something such as a Bible ref. on a wrist is not in the same category as what you have posted. Both what the photo shows, above, is inappropriate and for you to post is, too, is itself inappropriate.

Please respect others.

And if you are trying to smear Godly women who might get an wholesome and discreet, faith related one, don't.

 

[joethemechanic]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

The way I see it, tattoos on a woman are a sign of rebellion and an indication of her being possessed by the spirit of Lilith.

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

The way I see it, tattoos on a woman are a sign of rebellion and an indication of her being possessed by the spirit of Lilith.

joe:

Two things:

1) I would appreciate it if you would delete the photo showing the posterior crack; it is inappropriate, period.

2) If you think all Godly women are goddess worshippers if they get a modest, Bible verse ref., eg, on a wrist, then you are taking a very, very extreme position. Talking this way doesn't honor women who have tried to have a God honoring design in a modest placement.

 

[joethemechanic]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

And a woman being a "pastor's wife" dosen't make her any more godly than any other woman. I've seen a few "pastor's wives" who were,,,,,,,,,

Well I'm not even sure there is a nice word for what they were

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

And a woman being a "pastor's wife" dosen't make her any more godly than any other woman. I've seen a few "pastor's wives" who were,,,,,,,,,

Well I'm not even sure there is a nice word for what they were

joe:

You are welcome to express your views, but please be more respectful to women than you are being. (And if you can't be more respectful, don't post here at all, I would suggest.)

And please delete the photo, too; I've been trying to figure how to.

 

[handy]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Joe,

don't you think that by posting a picture of a woman's barely covered posterior you are indulging in the very behavior that is being condemned... in other words violating someone else's conscious?

While we are having a legitimate discussion here... posting provocative pictures of scantily clad women is neither necessary ... we're intelligent enough to get the point without the picture... and salacious, which you're accusing women who get tattoo's as being.

Perhaps you can look at that picture and not be tempted, but most cannot.

This is a totally different thing that a modest tattoo of a butterfly on a lower calf.

 

[farouk]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

Joe,

don't you think that by posting a picture like that you are indulging in the very behavior that is being condemned... in other words violating someone else's conscious?

While we are having a legitimate discussion here... posting provocative pictures of scantily clad women is neither necessary ... we're intelligent enough to get the point without the picture... and salacious, which you're accusing women who get tattoo's as being.

Perhaps you can look at that picture and not be tempted, but most cannot.

This is a totally different thing that a modest tattoo of a butterfly on a lower calf.

handy:

Well, exactly. I couldn't have put it better myself. Thank-you.

It's benign and becoming for women to get wholesome, even faith related, tattoos in a modest placements.

(Joe is being unacceptable.)

Blessings.

 

[joethemechanic]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

What about the little girls who see that "pastor's wife" who is all tatted up and grow up thinking that it's ok to get a tramp stamp?

 

[handy]

Re: "At our church, there are several with tatts, including several middle aged women

I am reminded of this text:

1“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2“For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3“Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4“Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5“You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. Matthew 7

I would consider having a butterfly tatted on a lower calf or a fish symbol on the shoulder a "speck" (if even that.)

Seems we Christians ( and i do mean all of us) pick and choose which passages of scripture we wish to adhere to. God tells us plainly Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

You are absolutely right. These things were written for our learning...

But, I don't think necessarily that we need be in lock-step with the Jews of old about them either. They were under these laws as part of their national identity (just as we are under the laws of no texting while driving) as well as they do give an insight as to what is pleasing to God. But the one text in the OT that has to do with tattoos, ties the practice in with pagan death rites... something that's not applicable to those getting tattoos today.

After all, these are the same laws that instructed the Jews to not mix fabrics together, to not eat cheeseburgers, to not trim the beard...

All of these laws had reasons and we're wise to look into the reason, and if we are convicted by any of it, to follow the conviction. If not, OK, for we are not under these laws but under grace.

After all, it is (or at least should be) the Holy Spirit's job to convict each of us to do as He desires. Who are we to judge the servant of another Master?