Athiests

[AskTheA]

I have a good friend who is a Christian Reform which is similar to Presbyterian/Calvinism I beleive. I, however am an Athiest. I've read Christian forums before where there is an "Ask the Athiest" thread. Most ofen it's the athiest trying to A: deconvert the Christians, or B: act rudely or make the look silly so the Athiest can say "look how smart I am".

I intend to do neither of those things; I think that's a waste of time. I just want to foster some understanding. I don't use rude language nor will I say mean things about your beleifs or your god. Feel free to ask me any question, whether or not it is even diretly related to religion. I'm knowledgable about athiesm and have a decent understanding of religions of the world.

 

[Free]

Actually, I have found most atheists on here to be quite pleasant and there is always room for one more.

Welcome to the forums.

 

[Tina]

Feel free to ask me any question, whether or not it is even diretly related to religion. I'm knowledgable about athiesm and have a decent understanding of religions of the world.

Actually I think Atheists are quite cool and funny people ......... :shades

I have a question for you :

What do you think will happen to you when you die ... do you think you will go to heaven or hell .... if you beieve in that .... or do you think you will go somewhere else ?


........

 

[AskTheA]

I suppose to get rid of the simplest of questions
Name - Chuck
Field - Math
Catholic(doubting) -> Satanist(more for "rebellion")->Athiest
stable relationship
only positive experience with the church
Love music, play piano and bass, enjoy Slayer/Sodom and Handel/Bach and anything strange
No drinking no drugs
enjoy parkour (it's a sport, try youtube if you wanna check it out)
don't watch much tv but enjoy discovery channel, history channel or something else educational
active in debunking things like "9/11 was an inside job" or psychics, homeopathy, tarot cards, horoscopes, creationism. I tend to agree with "skeptics" such as James Randi, Penn and Telller, The Skeptic's Guide to the Universe.
Advocate of science and the scientific method. I do not know much about philosphy but that's the next mountain to climb I think
politics - socially I think people should be free but "my right to swing my fist ends where your nose begins" The Golden Rule is also a great. Freedom of speech is a must, same with equality.

 

[AskTheA]

Feel free to ask me any question, whether or not it is even diretly related to religion. I'm knowledgable about athiesm and have a decent understanding of religions of the world.

Actually I think Atheists are quite cool and funny people ......... :shades

I have a question for you :

What do you think will happen to you when you die ... do you think you will go to heaven or hell .... if you beieve in that .... or do you think you will go somewhere else ?


........

I am unconvinced that there is an afterlife in any form. If I imagine a judgement scenerio, perhaps St. Peter at the pearly gates, I would be curious as to why it matters whether or not I worship or even acknowledge His existence. I would hope he would be proud of me for being a moral person. I would have looked at the world and happened not to see Him, but I don't see why that would anger him. Barring any of those situations, yes I suppose I would be roasting in eternal agony forever. Again, Athiesm doesn't seem like a choice to me. I can't choose to be convinced of something. If I was unconvinced but acted in a Christian manner, I'm SURE God would see though my deception.

 

[Tina]

.
Actually you seem more like an agnostic than an Atheist. An Atheist once told me that when he dies, he believes that his atoms will disintegrate and go back to dust. He does not believe in having a spirit of any kind. Do all atheists have different beliefs about afterlife ?

 

[Lance_Iguana]

.
Actually you seem more like an agnostic than an Atheist. An Atheist once told me that when he dies, he believes that his atoms will disintegrate and go back to dust. He does not believe in having a spirit of any kind. Do all atheists have different beliefs about afterlife ?

I'll jump in and answer this. Some common misconceptions in terms.

Theist/Theism - Belief in a Deity or deities that directly effect our lives.

Deism/Deist - Belief in a creator or creators that don't interact or interfere with our lives.

Pantheist/Pantheism - All is god all is one etc. Very hard to define. Basically there is no good or evil, life and history is in cycles, we are all gods, etc. its a very complex belief system.

Atheist - Lack of belief in religion of any kind. Usually stated. It technically isn't a belief system since the only belief needed is that there is nothing spiritually. Can blend with Pantheism in cases or Buddhism and L. Satanism. There is no rules to Atheism, dogma, or actual ism. Its just a stated lack of belief.

Agnostic - Don't know whether there are beings higher then us or not, and usually don't care. Can couple with Theism or Atheism if you are in a questioning stage or just care.

Philosophy and World religion classes are awesome. :yes Hope that helped

 

[Tina]

Atheist - Lack of belief in religion of any kind. Usually stated. It technically isn't a belief system since the only belief needed is that there is nothing spiritually.

Lack of belief ? .....
But other Atheists that I met said they don't bellieve in God or religion at all ......

Can blend with Pantheism in cases or Buddhism and L. Satanism. There is no rules to Atheism, dogma, or actual ism. Its just a stated lack of belief.

What on earth do you mean by this ? ? ... So some Atheists do believe in religion ? ? .......

 

[Lance_Iguana]

Atheist - Lack of belief in religion of any kind. Usually stated. It technically isn't a belief system since the only belief needed is that there is nothing spiritually.

Lack of belief ? .....
But other Atheists that I met said they don't bellieve in God or religion at all ......

There really are no rules to Atheism. There is no doctorin for it. One atheist can believe something completely different from the next. Pretty much as long as you don't profess to a higher being or beings. An atheist that person might be.

Can blend with Pantheism in cases or Buddhism and L. Satanism. There is no rules to Atheism, dogma, or actual ism. Its just a stated lack of belief.

What on earth do you mean by this ? ? ... So some Atheists do believe in religion ? ? .......

Buddhism is an atheist religion with no belief in a higher being(s). You are the center and you flow through cycles of life until you have reached your own divinity. Atheism can either be a lack of belief in all religion or just Theistic deities. L. Satanists ( not to be confused with Luciferism/Satanism) was/is a belief system created by Anton levy where the person believes they are a god or there are no gods and enact on a philosophical code of hedonism.

In short, neither believe in a higher being. So they are Atheistic. Like I said there technically is no set ism or belief system out side of not believing in a higher power. ;)

 

[Edouard]

Lo all.

If there are those of you like the beginning post that are looking for or inquiring of scientific evidence.
I highly recommend the books written by a previously well known Aethist. Mr. Lee Stroebel.

He has three books out. I loaned out the first one I got after the first three chapters.

"Case for Christ"
Case for Creation"
"Case for Resureection"

This introduction and the first chapter tells you his method in writing the book.
More or less it is through interview and interrogation, but a lot more in depth.
If you do not like dry reading I do not recommend it.

Have a wonderful day.
Edouard.

 

[AskTheA]

Here's where we run into misconceptions. You can find all sorts of definitions for words like Athiest and Agnostic. I myself use the term Athiest to say "I haven't found enough evidence to beleive in X". I don't use it to say "I beleive there is no such thing as X". See the difference? If my friend says "I have a pet horse". I would be athiestic about that horse. I don't beleive he has one, but I don't say "I KNOW YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE".
Agnostic in it's most useful definition applies to 90% of christians and 100% of Athiests. The fence sitting position, or "I have no idea" is such a small subset of people that we don't tend to have a term for them, maybe some are Ignostic (refuse to answer the question). Agnostic in the way it is most used within the Athiests is something like, "I don't know God exists".
Many people are theist/anostic - "I don't know God exists for sure, but I beleive in Him".
Athiests don't know god exists(obviously) and don't beleive in Him
Gnostic theists would say "I know God exists, I metHhim (or something of that nature) so obviously I beleive in Him"
There are no Gnostic Athiests (I know god exists but I do not believe).

Athiests can be part of many religions, some religions don't have a creator figure or a personal god to pray to. Athiests can beleive in spirituallity or even psychics and magic. When someone tells you they are an athiest, they really aren't giving you much information. All they are saying is they find reason to acknowledge the existence of Yahweh/Bramah/Buddah as a god/Zoroaster/and the list goes on and on.

I'm going to put my few cents in about the Strobel books. As a non christian reading these, it's almost painful. If you look up the people he interviews, the "experts", you realize that they are often discredited in their field, often dishonest, and often are not scientists/historians/whatever. Lee's books are ignorant at best and dishonest at worst. I would not suggest handing them out or reccomending them to people with the intent for conversion to Christianity. It makes Christians look bad. Perhaps of someone who is already a diehard Christian read the books, they seem to be good, but it's hard to challenge claims that go along with your intuition. Let me give you an example:
You may have heard athiests claim that the story of Jesus was taken from previous gods from around the middle east. That statement is incorrect, but many athiests run with it because it goes along with their convictions. I have read all the strobel books and so have most other athiests. "Finding Darwin's God" but Ken Miller is a much better choice. An evolutionary biologist who is also a Christian. Again, when Christians are handing out dishonest material with the intent of conversion it does not look good. When Christians, especially apologists say "I was once an athiests" it does not help them one bit. Remember, every athiest is totally different, plus we often don't beleive them.

Just a quick recap. I do not beleive in a creator, a personal god, an afterlife, a soul, a life force, reincarnation, spirits, ghosts, angels, fairies or anything like that. On the contrary, I am not dogmatically tied to what I just said. If any of the above were demonstrated to me, I would jump ship and agree with their existence. I would not worship them, however. I am pretty close to the average athiest as far as metaphysical opinions go.

 

[Edouard]

Afternoon,

Ask the A:

Interesting statements. I have a friend of mine who is very well versed in more religions and topics of metaphysics than I ever studied. One of the comments he made to me is that Mr. Stroebel as been on several Aethist debate forums over radio. He has found both arguments come to an equal playing field.

Your comments about dishonesty are intriguing as you provide no points in your hypothesis.
If you are more old school for those inquiring about aeithism vs. old school
C.S. Lewis "Mere Christianity."

The interviewee's that he speaks with are people from Harvard. Miami of Ohio and so forth.
So you are stating that the information in his books are false and the people he chose to interview are dishonest.

Before you provide any form of evidence in making a statement so bold as to discredit someone. I would consider the fact that how would one have this type of position of authority and leadership and still be discredited? One would think that if they were discredited that they would no longer be in those types of positions, would you not?

I look forward to the conversation.
Edouard.

 

[Tina]

.

when Christians are handing out dishonest material with the intent of conversion it does not look good.

What makes you so sure that the materials are "dishonest" ? ... How do you know ?

When Christians, especially apologists say "I was once an athiests" it does not help them one bit.

Why not ?? .... I know Christians who used to be atheists.

Just a quick recap. I do not beleive in a creator, a personal god, an afterlife, a soul, a life force, reincarnation, spirits, ghosts, angels, fairies or anything like that. On the contrary, I am not dogmatically tied to what I just said. If any of the above were demonstrated to me, I would jump ship and agree with their existence. I would not worship them, however. I am pretty close to the average athiest as far as metaphysical opinions go.

Yeap, this is what I wanted to know ..... spoken like a true atheist ! .......

Were you an atheist all along ... or did you choose to abandon your family religion ?
Have you been to church ... do you not like it ?

 

[justvisiting]

I'm knowledgable about athiesm .

Do you exist?
This link will show you the complexity of even a simple single cell. We are not made by accident(s), but by God. This is design. Make sure you read this mister scientist.
http://www.hauns.com/~DCQu4E5g/Complexity.htm
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Is there any other religion in the world that offers redemption from being fallen. Aren't they all about attaining enlightenment?

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
I should also tell you, that the brightest unbelieving professors on the face of the earth, change their minds constantly about how life came about...simply because they really don't have the answers at all.
Check out Stephen Hawkings...Now you have to have a perfect "bubble".
You ought to try God. He gives you the "perfect" answer. HE created it.

 

[justvisiting]

After you come up with an explanation for the previous. Those are only the realities of existing. Now you have to explain the complexities of the human brain. Emotions, memory, thought and creativity.
Both in man and animals.
Evolution is so much in denial of the truth, that it makes it obvious, they really don't want any real answers at all.
I'm a Christian and a believer of God...and I'm proud of it. You're brightest professor on the face of the earth is an idiot compared to a simple child that can acknowledge these truths. Denial is not smart...it's stupid. Professing themselves to be wise...they became ....fools.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

After you come up with an explanation for the previous. Those are only the realities of existing. Now you have to explain the complexities of the human brain. Emotions, memory, thought and creativity.
Both in man and animals.
Evolution is so much in denial of the truth, that it makes it obvious, they really don't want any real answers at all.
I'm a Christian and a believer of God...and I'm proud of it. You're brightest professor on the face of the earth is an idiot compared to a simple child that can acknowledge these truths. Denial is not smart...it's stupid. Professing themselves to be wise...they became ....fools.

Why did you go after him like that? Atheism dose not equal uppity science believer either.

A scientist is stupid because we haven't figured out every little inch of the brain? Really have you checked up on studies of the brain lately. Most of the time when I see people arguing against evolution, they either don't know what it is, or are ignorant of the information that is available.

Most you tube videos I've seen debunking evolution are laughable, especially when Biologists respond and tear apart said videos.


I don't want to lead this thread off topic, so if you want to respond to that, please do it thorugh pm.

 

[justvisiting]

Did you check this out. This is one of many good arguments against it.
http://www.hauns.com/~DCQu4E5g/Complexity.htm
It's true, most of believers can't be bothered checking out the complexities of human existence to argue with evolutionists. There are plenty of medical people, professors, etc. that can tell you how complex life is, if an answer is really required.
The bottom line is...it's really just about denying the obvious. There is a Creator.
An atheist is someone that does not believe in God...why? Firstly, usually because they can't accept a creator. This is completely on topic.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

Did you check this out. This is one of many good arguments against it.
http://www.hauns.com/~DCQu4E5g/Complexity.htm
It's true, most of believers can't be bothered checking out the complexities of human existence to argue with evolutionists. There are plenty of medical people, professors, etc. that can tell you how complex life is, if an answer is really required.
The bottom line is...it's really just about denying the obvious. There is a Creator.
An atheist is someone that does not believe in God...why? Firstly, usually because they can't accept a creator. This is completely on topic.

I scanned the article and want to know what I noticed, its same arguments that have been floating around for the last 20 years that have been answered on numerous occasions. There are books and studies about the formation of the Eye, immune system, etc. that have been published ages ago. This goes back to my post where I said most avid creationists seem to not keep up with evolutionary study at all. It seems like they stopped caring back in the 80s.

The entire complex argument all stems from willful ignorance and stubbornness. Like I said before, when ever I see a video on youtube where a creationist attacks evolution, a biologist or chemist swoops in and corrects all the false assumptions and willful ignorance. Get some new tactics that haven't been explained to death already.

 

[justvisiting]

Well, I guess this is why Paul the apostle said to Timothy.
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen. The first to Timothy was written from Laodicea, which is the chiefest city of Phrygia Pacatiana.
I guess the universe is not evidence enough for nonbelievers.
I'm done here. It is evidently futile...and I don't want to argue about things that obviously, don't even need explanation.
As the word of God shows...

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

Well, I guess this is why Paul the apostle said to Timothy.
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen. The first to Timothy was written from Laodicea, which is the chiefest city of Phrygia Pacatiana.
I guess the universe is not evidence enough for nonbelievers.
I'm done here. It is evidently futile...and I don't want to argue about things that obviously, don't even need explanation.
As the word of God shows...

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

So we should end all engineering, science, and learning because it angers god? Well I guess I'll send the info to all the labs, hospitals, schools, and colleges so they can close down so we can stop offending god.