avoid vain arguments - do not bite and devour

[Truthfrees]

discussing scripture is such a blessing - there are so many treasures in the bible and people see things differently which makes for an opportunity to expand our understanding of God's messages to us

i wonder what makes people turn a discussion on a topic into a discussion of the person we disagree with

it seems like when someone dislikes what another person says the next comments are about the person

why do we do that?

is it because we dislike anyone that disagrees with us?

is it because when someone disagrees with us we get hurt somehow and now want to hurt the person back?

what should we do when someone starts getting personal rather than continuing to discuss a topic?

what i do is try to talk to the person privately - and try to find out what i did that caused the person to start being unfriendly toward me and what i can do that would make things right between us - Romans 12:18 - Romans 14:19

almost every time trying to reconcile changes things for the better - 1 Peter 3:8 - Ephesians 4:32

i think we all know when someone is not being friendly to us - we can feel the tension

i think we all need to learn to love each other while we discuss topics

i think we all need to examine ourselves when we start disliking someone for disagreeing with us

Galatians 5:15 - 2 Timothy 2:23 - 2 Timothy 2:14 - says that when we start devouring one another rather than having a friendly discussion of scripture we risk tearing others down and ruining anyone that is listening to the ungodly attacking exchanges

i love you all and love hearing other pov's - i just wish we could be friendly in our discussions so that we look like people who love God and our fellow man - otherwise we are just clanging cymbals and noisy gongs - 1 Corinthians 13:1

for those that want to deal with what they consider false doctrine - it can still be done with a friendly discussion - getting angry and unkind in a discussion produces nothing good - people dig in their heels when offended - they stop listening to what you have to say because your delivery/tone was unscriptural - lacking the reconciliation goal - when people are treated as enemies they become irreconcilable - they lock into defending themselves - so the discussion of truth is buried beneath a fight for personal safety when under attack

imo theological discussions have 2 goals:
1. get a better understanding of what God is saying to us - expand our understanding of scripture
2. an opportunity to hone our skills at speaking the truth in love - iow continuing to genuinely love someone we disagree with - learning to keep loving people we disagree with helps us become more Christlike

praying for a more Godly approach to theological discussions

 

[ezrider]

why do we do that?

Luke 12:48-52
I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.


Why?

Hosea 4:1
Hear the word of the Lord, ye children of Israel:
for the Lord hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land,
because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.

Hosea 4:4
Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another:
for thy people are as they that strive with the priest.

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:
because thou hast rejected knowledge,
I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me:
seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God,
I will also forget thy children.



Why do you suppose it pleased the Lord in the vanity of preaching to save those who already believe? (1 Cor 1:21)

 

[ezra]

i wonder what makes people turn a discussion on a topic into a discussion of the person we disagree with

it seems like when someone dislikes what another person says the next comments are about the person

why do we do that?

a million dollar question personalities on the net come out.. try getting a apostolic Pentecostal to find common ground with a southern baptist hard to do

 

[Truthfrees]

Luke 12:48-52
I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.

Why?

Hosea 4:1
Hear the word of the Lord, ye children of Israel:
for the Lord hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land,
because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.

Hosea 4:4
Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another:
for thy people are as they that strive with the priest.

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:
because thou hast rejected knowledge,
I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me:
seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God,
I will also forget thy children.

Why do you suppose it pleased the Lord in the vanity of preaching to save those who already believe? (1 Cor 1:21)

great scriptures

Jesus came to divide truth from error so that people could be saved - but even He did not strive attack disrespect others

notice how when they called Him a demon He called them hypocrites - quite a few steps down from what they said to Him - meaning Jesus was DE-escalating things - we should do likewise

He was actually a man of few words - and each word was potent - learning to imitate Jesus in this would be better than what we do presently

Jesus also said He ONLY said what the Father told Him to say - and only did what the Father showed Him to do - another thing we could learn to do

if we were slow to speak slow to anger we might have more impact than we presently have

so if we looked closely at some of these things it still creates a doctrine of de-escalate - tell the truth - say only what God tells you to say - not what you feel like saying - etc

iow we have some work to do to walk in the footsteps of Jesus

 

[Truthfrees]

a million dollar question personalities on the net come out.. try getting a apostolic Pentecostal to find common ground with a southern baptist hard to do

is it really?

why should it be?

i have friends and relatives from all denominations and we can easily find common ground

we actually have more in common than we have in difference

imo it's the desire to save the relationship that causes us to talk kindly to each other rather than attack each other over our differences

i bet when we get to heaven we will find out we were ALL wrong - all the things we disagreed over are things we are all guessing about - none of us knows for sure the truth on our disagreements - we all just think we are right and the other guy is wrong

 

[for_his_glory]

What we all have in common no mater what denomination or non-denomination is the love of Christ and who He said He is. There are many church doctrines, but yet one doctrine of Christ that is His living word, the fountain of life and bread for our soul.

There are doctrines of devils and the doctrine of Christ. Not everyone is on the same level of knowledge as we are ever learning as the Holy Spirit teaches us. We are to test the spirits that speak as one is error and the other is truth.

Is it really a matter of disrespecting and attacking someone for how they believe or are we to lift up and edify one another as we all come to the knowledge of truth. Should we not be able to say I was wrong as you are right by how you shared a new light to the word I never saw or understood before. A house will always be divided if there is no love within it.

1 Corinthians 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

 

[Truthfrees]

What we all have in common no mater what denomination or non-denomination is the love of Christ and who He said He is. There are many church doctrines, but yet one doctrine of Christ that is His living word, the fountain of life and bread for our soul.

There are doctrines of devils and the doctrine of Christ. Not everyone is on the same level of knowledge as we are ever learning as the Holy Spirit teaches us. We are to test the spirits that speak as one is error and the other is truth.

Is it really a matter of disrespecting and attacking someone for how they believe or are we to lift up and edify one another as we all come to the knowledge of truth. Should we not be able to say I was wrong as you are right by how you shared a new light to the word I never saw or understood before. A house will always be divided if there is no love within it.

1 Corinthians 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

amen - awesome truth - well said

friendly discussion is an awesome way to see where we are wrong - i have always appreciated people who were kind to me when they shared a truth i missed

 

[WIP]

discussing scripture is such a blessing - there are so many treasures in the bible and people see things differently which makes for an opportunity to expand our understanding of God's messages to us

i wonder what makes people turn a discussion on a topic into a discussion of the person we disagree with

it seems like when someone dislikes what another person says the next comments are about the person

why do we do that?

is it because we dislike anyone that disagrees with us?

is it because when someone disagrees with us we get hurt somehow and now want to hurt the person back?

what should we do when someone starts getting personal rather than continuing to discuss a topic?

what i do is try to talk to the person privately - and try to find out what i did that caused the person to start being unfriendly toward me and what i can do that would make things right between us - Romans 12:18 - Romans 14:19

almost every time trying to reconcile changes things for the better - 1 Peter 3:8 - Ephesians 4:32

i think we all know when someone is not being friendly to us - we can feel the tension

i think we all need to learn to love each other while we discuss topics

i think we all need to examine ourselves when we start disliking someone for disagreeing with us

Galatians 5:15 - 2 Timothy 2:23 - 2 Timothy 2:14 - says that when we start devouring one another rather than having a friendly discussion of scripture we risk tearing others down and ruining anyone that is listening to the ungodly attacking exchanges

i love you all and love hearing other pov's - i just wish we could be friendly in our discussions so that we look like people who love God and our fellow man - otherwise we are just clanging cymbals and noisy gongs - 1 Corinthians 13:1

for those that want to deal with what they consider false doctrine - it can still be done with a friendly discussion - getting angry and unkind in a discussion produces nothing good - people dig in their heels when offended - they stop listening to what you have to say because your delivery/tone was unscriptural - lacking the reconciliation goal - when people are treated as enemies they become irreconcilable - they lock into defending themselves - so the discussion of truth is buried beneath a fight for personal safety when under attack

imo theological discussions have 2 goals:
1. get a better understanding of what God is saying to us - expand our understanding of scripture
2. an opportunity to hone our skills at speaking the truth in love - iow continuing to genuinely love someone we disagree with - learning to keep loving people we disagree with helps us become more Christlike

praying for a more Godly approach to theological discussions

Sometimes it comes down to simple misunderstandings as a result of the written word without emotion, voice inflection, facial or body language, etc. What we write may be taken differently that what was intended. It might help for us to keep these things in mind and try to ask for clarification before responding in kind.

 

[ezra]

is it really?

why should it be?

it shouldn't be but many times the god of the world blinds and he uses religion , Ephesians 6:12

 

[ezra]

i have friends and relatives from all denominations and we can easily find common ground

we actually have more in common than we have in difference

i have that also i have preached in a southern baptist church a Methodist church general baptist .i would like to preach in a Pentecostal church . the problem is the flesh

 

[Truthfrees]

Sometimes it comes down to simple misunderstandings as a result of the written word without emotion, voice inflection, facial or body language, etc. What we write may be taken differently that what was intended. It might help for us to keep these things in mind and try to ask for clarification before responding in kind.

amen - good point

 

[Truthfrees]

it shouldn't be but many times the god of the world blinds and he uses religion , Ephesians 6:12

yes - unfortunately - i know God works on me about loving others when i get impatient or start getting upset with them

somehow staying love makes it unseemly to talk unkindly to others

yet when i think my negative feelings towards others are justified somehow that gives me the wrong attitude and wrong license to talk disrespectfully toward others

what is that? - why does thinking negative thoughts about others and also thinking it is justified stifle a kind and generous attitude toward others? - crazy to think mistreating others is ever justified

 

[Truthfrees]

i have that also i have preached in a southern baptist church a Methodist church general baptist .i would like to preach in a Pentecostal church . the problem is the flesh

amen - we really do have so much in common

what do you mean the problem is the flesh? - pentecostals won't let you preach? - or your flesh?

preaching in each other's churches would be an awesome way to build bridges

i have been a part of jewish catholic interfaith services - it is so wonderful to see both faiths show respect for each other while finding common ground

 

[for_his_glory]

amen - awesome truth - well said

friendly discussion is an awesome way to see where we are wrong - i have always appreciated people who were kind to me when they shared a truth i missed

Many times I have been corrected by others in here through the years and it is humbling to be opened for correction for that is what helps to bring us into all truths by the Holy Spirit using others.

 

[Truthfrees]

Many times I have been corrected by others in here through the years and it is humbling to be opened for correction for that is what helps to bring us into all truths by the Holy Spirit using others.

amen - i know none of us mean to be wrong - not sure why we sometimes miss things that others see

 

[ezra]

amen - we really do have so much in common

what do you mean the problem is the flesh? - pentecostals won't let you preach? - or your flesh?

preaching in each other's churches would be an awesome way to build bridges

i have been a part of jewish catholic interfaith services - it is so wonderful to see both faiths show respect for each other while finding common ground

my statement on the flesh has nothing to do with Pentecostals..the flesh is the reason for division

preaching in each other's churches would be an awesome way to build bridges

it would be and should be and use to be . many are afraid you will preach outside there doctrine that is the truth. a true called preacher should have enough spirit leading to be able to just preach the word leave the church doctrines alone .
closed communions me being a ordained gen baptist would not be allowed to partake of the Lord supper in some churches . we have to many traditions of men that we use as doctrine.. i was pastor at a church and had a woman that is Pentecostal do a mothers day service for me.. she done a great job btw gen baptist do not believe in woman preachers. of course i this woman was like a sister to me . her bro and i was best buds.. i tease her that she saw me in my bloomers before my wife did . she is several years older than me and i spent the night with her brother a lot .the god of this world knows how to stir the flesh up .which is what i call a religious spirit .

we all have that religious spirit even if we dont want to admit to it .its called denominationalsm - any thing that goes against our core belief. i have it you have it , stove bolts all the mods admin has it... we do our best to guard against it coming out.. drop your guard and boom there it is we all fight this

 

[Truthfrees]

my statement on the flesh has nothing to do with Pentecostals..the flesh is the reason for division it would be and should be and use to be . many are afraid you will preach outside there doctrine that is the truth. a true called preacher should have enough spirit leading to be able to just preach the word leave the church doctrines alone .
closed communions me being a ordained gen baptist would not be allowed to partake of the Lord supper in some churches . we have to many traditions of men that we use as doctrine.. i was pastor at a church and had a woman that is Pentecostal do a mothers day service for me.. she done a great job btw gen baptist do not believe in woman preachers. of course i this woman was like a sister to me . her bro and i was best buds.. i tease her that she saw me in my bloomers before my wife did . she is several years older than me and i spent the night with her brother a lot .the god of this world knows how to stir the flesh up .which is what i call a religious spirit .

we all have that religious spirit even if we dont want to admit to it .its called denominationalsm - any thing that goes against our core belief. i have it you have it , stove bolts all the mods admin has it... we do our best to guard against it coming out.. drop your guard and boom there it is we all fight this

hmmm - good point - i suppose we are blind to our own and only see that of others - i guess that is why Jesus said take the log out of your own eye before poking around for the speck in the other guy's eye

we sure do need to work on this - in heaven there will be no denominations - our doctrine will be perfect and we will all agree up there

we know in part here and fight silly fights over our partial knowledge - how silly of us - no wonder scripture calls us sheep who easily go astray and get lost - and then Jesus has to go get us to bring us back on track

 

[ezra]

hmmm - good point - i suppose we are blind to our own and only see that of others - i guess that is why Jesus said take the log out of your own eye before poking around for the speck in the other guy's eye

we sure do need to work on this - in heaven there will be no denominations - our doctrine will be perfect and we will all agree up there

we know in part here and fight silly fights over our partial knowledge - how silly of us - no wonder scripture calls us sheep who easily go astray and get lost - and then Jesus has to go get us to bring us back on track

yuppers i been around the block few times sheep has to be led and a strangers voice they will not respond to..but we will .i say keep promoting unity .but also be on guard for our flesh

 

[Truthfrees]

i was pastor at a church and had a woman that is Pentecostal do a mothers day service for me.. she done a great job btw gen baptist do not believe in woman preachers. of course i this woman was like a sister to me . her bro and i was best buds.. i tease her that she saw me in my bloomers before my wife did . she is several years older than me and i spent the night with her brother a lot .

awesome story - love conquers all - love brings us closer to the truth

 

[Truthfrees]

yuppers i been around the block few times sheep has to be led and a strangers voice they will not respond to..but we will .i say keep promoting unity .but also be on guard for our flesh

amen - i agree - any suggestions?

we probably have to focus on our own sins/attitudes/etc and stop looking at the other guy - try to see the truth about ourselves and leave the other guy alone maybe?