What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Are you receiving an "error" mesage when posting?

    Chances are it went through, so check before douible posting.

    We hope to have the situtaion resolved soon, and Happy Thanksgiving to those in the US!

  • Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?

    Join For His Glory for a discussion on how

    https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/

  • Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need

    https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/

  • Ever read the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ?

    Read through this brief blog, and receive eternal salvation as the free gift of God

    /blog/the-gospel

  • Have questions about the Christian faith?

    Come ask us what's on your mind in Questions and Answers

    https://christianforums.net/forums/questions-and-answers/

  • How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?

    Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject

    https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

    Read daily articles from Focus on the Family in the Marriage and Parenting Resources forum.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit, is not at salvation

3{ His Divine Power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness,} through the knowledge of Him that hath called us to glory and virtue.

4 Thereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises, that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. he gave us ALL THINGS that pertain unto life and godliness, NOT SOME BUT ALL but his power :amen
 
FreeGrace said:
Since it seems from your comment here that the bapatism with the Holy Spirit is special; only some get it. So, from Scripture, could you show us the criteria for how one receives this baptism with the Holy Spirit. Thanks.
Click to expand...
It's not special.
It's for all born again Christians.

Some people don't believe in it, just like some don't believe in healing.
Unbelieve is the obstacle.
Jesus arrived at places where He could not do miracles because of unbelieve.

People received the baptism with the Holy Spirit because apostles prayed over them.
So, you receive it through prayer.
 
Last edited:
reba said:
Paoli S. I am a Pentecostal . I wish to ask of you A couple questions ..
Do you accept Acts 2:4 as evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?
Click to expand...

Acts 2:4King James Version (KJV)
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Yes.
 
Paoli S. said:
I mean the average churches of today. I'm not talking about a building.
Click to expand...

hello Paoli, dirtfarmer here

As to scripture, there is only one church made up of different members and those members are set in the church(body of Christ) as it pleases God for the edifying of the body. That is what 1 Corinthians 12-14 is in reference to. There is no average church today., but there are assemblies that gather to worship and grow in the Lord. We are told that where two or three meet in the name of the Lord, He is there, whether it bee in a field, or in the woods, or even some one's house
 
dirtfarmer said:
As to scripture, there is only one church made up of different members
Click to expand...
Concerning "only one church" ... sort of, but not really:

Acts 11:22 NASB The [fn]news about them [fn]reached the ears of the church at Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas off [fn]to Antioch.

Acts 13:1 NASB Now there were at Antioch, in the church that was there, prophets and teachers: Barnabas, and Simeon who was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

Acts 15:41 NASB And he was traveling through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.

Acts 16:5 NASB So the churches were being strengthened [fn]in the faith, and were increasing in number daily.

Romans 16:1 NASB I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a [fn]servant of the church which is at Cenchrea;

Romans 16:16 NASB Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ greet you.

1 Corinthians 1:2 NASB and 2 Corinthians 2:1 NASB ... the church of God which is at Corinth

1 Corinthians 7:17 NASB Only, as the Lord has assigned to each one, as God has called each, in this manner let him walk. And so I direct in all the churches.

:horse

I should stop now.
There is one church (with Christ as its head) and there are also many churches.
 
dirtfarmer said:
hello Paoli, dirtfarmer here

As to scripture, there is only one church made up of different members and those members are set in the church(body of Christ) as it pleases God for the edifying of the body. That is what 1 Corinthians 12-14 is in reference to. There is no average church today., but there are assemblies that gather to worship and grow in the Lord. We are told that where two or three meet in the name of the Lord, He is there, whether it bee in a field, or in the woods, or even some one's house
Click to expand...
What I mean by the average modern church, are the churches that are more or less social clubs and have a lot of false teachers in them. Some praise and worship teams only act like performers, some pastors preach prosperity, are money hungry etc etc You know no doubt what I am talking about. There's lots of them around. Some are on TV. Some have homosexual pastors in the pulpit. The Bible refers to them as some having the blood of people on their hands. Wolves in sheep clothing. Showing a form of Godlyness but denying the power.
 
Last edited:
Paoli S. said:
What I mean by the average modern church, are the churches that are more or less social clubs and have a lot of false teachers in them. Some praise and worship teams only act like performers, some pastors preach prosperity, are money hungry etc etc You know no doubt what I am talking about. There's lots of them around. Some are on TV. Some have homosexual pastors in the pulpit. The Bible refers to them as some having the blood of people on their hands. Wolves in sheep clothing. Showing a form of Godlyness but denying the power.[/Q

hello Paoli, dirtfarmer here

I know of and have visited some of those "organizations", but the "church is a living organism full of life from Christ. The focal point in an organization is who you are for in politics, what football team you back, or some other worldly enterprise. The Church has one focal point and it is Christ. Organization meet to further their monetary ambitions, not Christ. The organism that is alive through Christ meets to help struggling believers to become mature and live by faith
Click to expand...
 
I said:
"Since it seems from your comment here that the bapatism with the Holy Spirit is special; only some get it. So, from Scripture, could you show us the criteria for how one receives this baptism with the Holy Spirit. Thanks."
Paoli S. said:
It's not special.
It's for all born again Christians.

Some people don't believe in it, just like some don't believe in healing.
Unbelieve is the obstacle.
Jesus arrived at places where He could not do miracles because of unbelieve.

People received the baptism with the Holy Spirit because apostles prayed over them.
So, you receive it through prayer.
Click to expand...
We all must remember that the very early church was transitional. There were no denominations, etc. The Jewish temple wasn't destroyed until 70 AD. We also know that the Jews were the first to receive the indwelling Holy Spirit, and they were already believers. Then, those Gentiles who believed initially received the Holy Spirit when one of the apostles laid hands on them (Acts 8 - Simon, etc) or prayed over them. But when Cornelius and household heard the gospel and believed, the Holy Spirit came on them apart from any hands being laid on them (Acts 10).

What did Paul ask the Galatian Gentiles about receiving the Holy Spirit in Gal 3?
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

So, by the time those in Galatia heard and believed the gospel, they received the Holy Spirit on the basis of faith only. No more need to pray over anyone or lay hands on anyone.

So your answer is incorrect. Prayer is no longer necessary. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is given WHEN one believes.

Edited by staff
 
Last edited by a moderator:
reba said:
Paoli S. I am a Pentecostal . I wish to ask of you A couple questions ..
Do you accept Acts 2:4 as evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?
Click to expand...
If I may be permitted to interject inquiry being I've read prior that CF is a eclectic community of faith and Christian denominations, is it necessary that one be in accord with Pentecostal ideology concerning the Holy Spirit?
 
Free Grace, please read : Acts 8:15

Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost.
 
Free Grace, about Galatians. 3:2

Paul's question refers to the initial entrance of the Holy Spirit into their hearts when they put their trust in the Lord Jesus. Paul is not speaking of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. Being Born of the Spirit and being Baptized with the Spirit are two different works of grace.
 
Last edited:
By Sister Christian: If I may be permitted to interject inquiry being I've read prior that CF is a eclectic community of faith and Christian denominations, is it necessary that one be in accord with Pentecostal ideology concerning the Holy Spirit?
Click to expand...
Should Pentecostals, be excluded from a Christian Forum?
 
Paoli S. said:
Free Grace, please read : Acts 8:15
Click to expand...
This is my reply to your previous post:
"We all must remember that the very early church was transitional. There were no denominations, etc. The Jewish temple wasn't destroyed until 70 AD. We also know that the Jews were the first to receive the indwelling Holy Spirit, and they were already believers. Then, those Gentiles who believed initially received the Holy Spirit when one of the apostles laid hands on them (Acts 8 - Simon, etc) or prayed over them. But when Cornelius and household heard the gospel and believed, the Holy Spirit came on them apart from any hands being laid on them (Acts 10).

What did Paul ask the Galatian Gentiles about receiving the Holy Spirit in Gal 3?
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

So, by the time those in Galatia heard and believed the gospel, they received the Holy Spirit on the basis of faith only. No more need to pray over anyone or lay hands on anyone.

So your answer is incorrect. Prayer is no longer necessary. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is given WHEN one believes."

So, let's not ignore the clear message from Gal 3:2 and 5. One now receives (from the timeframe of when Galatian believers received the Holy Spirit) when one believes.

Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost.
Click to expand...
As I noted, that was Acts 8. By Acts 10, the Holy Spirit was given WHEN they believed, same as for the Galatian believers.
 
Paoli S. said:
Free Grace, about Gal. 3 This question refers to the initial entrance of the Holy Spirit into their hearts when they put their trust in the Lord Jesus.
Click to expand...
Right. That's the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

But since it seems your view is that initial entrance (indwelling) of the Spirit is different than the baptism with the Holy Spirit, please explain this difference.

Paul is not speaking of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. Being Born of the Spirit and being Baptized with the Spirit are two different works of grace.
Click to expand...
OK, please explain the difference and use Scripture to support this difference. Thanks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top