Baptism

[Religiot]

Your post #3 you are only making an assumption that the thief was water baptized as the ministry of John the Baptist covered all the Jewish region, but nowhere in scripture does it state that he was water baptized. In Luke 23:39-43 this thief rebuked the other thief and knew this condemnation against them was justly. He turned to Jesus knowing He was the Lord and asked that he would be remembered when Jesus came into His kingdom. This was an admission of a guilty conscience repenting of his sins as it was only while hanging on the cross seeing what Jesus went through that the theif then believed.

Concerning Mark 16:14-16 the disciples were water baptized by John the Baptist in the Jordan River before Jesus called them to be His disciples. But, yet their unblief in the risen Christ and the hardness of their heart caused them to not believe the report of others who had seen the risen Christ. It would not be until in the upper room on the day of pentecost that Jesus appeared to them and then they were indwelled with the Holy Spirit (two different baptisms) and sent out to preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

There is nothing wrong with immersion in water as this is an outward appearance to others that you have received Gods Salvation and the Holy Spirit. When the Disciples where in the upper room they all received the Holy Spirit, not by immersion of water, but by Gods Spirit falling on them. What about those people who can not be immersed in water that are incapacitated. Peter did not say that it was through water that we receive the Holy Spirit in Acts 10:47, 48 he was saying that others should not forbid a Gentile who wants to be immersed in water, but repentance must come first. After repentance and the Spiritual rebirth, John 3:5-7, we are then baptized in the Holy Spirit and fire through that of Christ baptism according to Acts 2:38, 39, Matthew 3:11.

Ephesians 2:8-10 It's not water that saves us or trying to work towards God's salvation by doing good things as it's by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God. It's faith that is Christ Jesus that we first believe in that is God's free gift to us. Faith comes by hearing the word preached to us, Romans 10:17, and our obedience comes by being Spiritually born again, John 3:5-7 as we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works that we are ordained to walk in them.

God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved or lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.

I stand by what I said in post #18 as we can not add words to scripture to make it say what we want it to. God causing the flood only saved Noah and his family from being destroyed like all the others as he was the only one who already had great faith and believed in God just as the same with Noah and the Israelites when God parted the Red Sea and then once they safely reached Canaan God closed up the waters and those who had no faith or belief in God drowned in the river. 1 Peter 3:21 can be compared to the thief on the cross as a guilty conscience leads one to repentance as it is by the resurrection of Jesus Christ that we believe, just as the disciples did on the day of Pentecost and were baptized in the Holy Spirit, not water and were saved.

Let's do one at a time, please.

Let's start with the Thief on the cross:
Who told him that Jesus was the Lord?
Who told him that Jesus had done nothing wrong?
Who told him that Jesus was a King?
Who told him that Jesus would come into His Kingdom, even after death?

John did, John and his disciples, for the Law and the Prophets were until John, and from John onward the Kingdom of my Master is preached!

John preached the Kingdom of Heaven, He was the first to do so, and only those who believed John's preaching would imagine that Christ could not be contained by death, but would indeed enter into His Kingdom, and would also return for all who obey Him.

Sister, my assumption is reasonable, because I can demonstrate it by the scriptures.

Your assumption concerning the thief, renders contradictory conclusions, which, if they were true, would falsify the bible.

Please consider it further. The thief knew the gospel, because John did his job. That is the simplest answer, and it does not create internal contradictions.

I simply believe the bible, Luke 3:2-3; Matthew 3:5-6; Mark 1:5; Acts 13:24, John preached to everyone in the region, and baptized everyone in the region, except for the lawyers and religious leaders, Luke 7:29-30.

Why not just simply believe the bible?

 

[Susannah]

Some people believe when Jesus said we must be born the first time with water and the second time with the Holy Spirit he was referring to the water of the placenta and not the water of a river. This is an interesting discussion. Quakers don't believe it is necessary for salvation but I wasn't taking any chances so I went to another church to get baptized.

 

[Religiot]

Some people believe when Jesus said we must be born the first time with water and the second time with the Holy Spirit he was referring to the water of the placenta and not the water of a river. This is an interesting discussion. Quakers don't believe it is necessary for salvation but I wasn't taking any chances so I went to another church to get baptized.

Not the water of a river, but just water, as He said.

The Spirit says to the Churches, that the water bears witness, as does the air, and the blood...

Without mentioning the others, how could water bear witness to anything?

By the increase of knowledge men are ever learning about how little they know about the world around them.

The following is an astonishing discovery about water, enjoy:

In no case do I take the above video clip to mean baptism is required because of this property in water, for the scriptures are the sole authority that do tell us why baptism is required:
1Peter 3:21:
"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"
Therefore, it is the act of a good conscience toward God in obeying Him to be baptized that saves us, not the water, for the water is nothing without the obedience of faith.

 

[for_his_glory]

Let's start with the Thief on the cross:
Who told him that Jesus was the Lord?
Who told him that Jesus had done nothing wrong?
Who told him that Jesus was a King?
Who told him that Jesus would come into His Kingdom, even after death?

No one can properly answer these questions, but can only speculate it was God that revealed all of this to the theif like that of Peter in Matthew 16:16, 17.

John did, John and his disciples, for the Law and the Prophets were until John, and from John onward the Kingdom of my Master is preached!

The law and the Prophets have have never ceased as even today they exist until Christ returns, Matthew 7:17-20; Matthew 22:34-40.

Luke 16:14-17 this is Jesus warning the Pharisees who were money lovers and turned up their nose to Jesus after He taught the parable of the unjust servant. Jesus tells them the law and the prophets were until John, since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. It wasn't until Jesus was baptized by John, not for repentance, but for the beginning of His ministry preaching the kingdom of God. John only preached repentance preparing the way to the kingdom of heaven.

John preached the Kingdom of Heaven, He was the first to do so, and only those who believed John's preaching would imagine that Christ could not be contained by death, but would indeed enter into His Kingdom, and would also return for all who obey Him.

John the Baptist never preached the kingdom of God as he said, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire, Matthew Chapter 3.

You are trying to reason scripture by using logic and assumptions adding to and taking away without realizing you are doing this. It takes more than just one verse to understand the full context as we compare scripture with scripture.

BTW, Just because others do not agree with each other does not mean they do not believe the scriptures. Discussions should never be an I'm right, your wrong attitude, but to give what you believe by giving scripture so others can go study them for themself in the full context of the word. We strive for unity among each other within all the forums and also need to be opened for correction where we might have missed something we did not see as we are ever learning within our studies.

 

[for_his_glory]

Please consider it further. The thief knew the gospel, because John did his job. That is the simplest answer, and it does not create internal contradictions.

This stood out to me and wanted to address it separate from the rest of your post.

How could John preach the gospel before the ministry of Jesus began? All John would know is what the Prophets taught and prophesied of.

 

[for_his_glory]

Some people believe when Jesus said we must be born the first time with water and the second time with the Holy Spirit he was referring to the water of the placenta and not the water of a river. This is an interesting discussion. Quakers don't believe it is necessary for salvation but I wasn't taking any chances so I went to another church to get baptized.

John 3:3-21 except a man be born again of water and Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Vs.6 that which is born of the Flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Flesh cannot perceive the things of the Spirit and is enmity against God, Romans 8:6, 7.

Notice in vs. 5 the word baptism is not there as the word water means living water as we read in John 4:4-26; 7:37-39; 12:44-50; Ephesians 5:26; 1 John 5:5-8; Jeremiah 17:13; Zechariah 14:8, 9; Rev 21:6-8; Ezekiel 47:22.

The baptism that Jesus and Peter was talking about was a Spiritual rebirth through Gods word and receiving the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, not water, Luke 3:16. Acts 2:14-41 Peter taught it was through repentance and accepting Jesus and his teachings is when we are baptized in the Holy Spirit apart from being baptized in water. Acts 8:26-40 like the Ethiopian eunuch we have to believe first and through confession, Romans 10:9,10, we are given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:44-48 The Holy Spirit already fell on the disciples while they were listening to Peter. (No water involved)

I see nothing wrong with being immersed in water like John's water baptism, but I see it as only an outward appearance of an inward conversion through the Spiritual rebirth from above just like that of the eunuch as he believed first that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and also the 3000 on the day of Pentecost who repented and believe in Jesus then they were baptized

 

[for_his_glory]

The Spirit says to the Churches, that the water bears witness, as does the air, and the blood...

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

In verse 8 and the water means it was by the witness of Christ when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him and lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, Matthew 3:16, 17.

In heaven the Father, the word (Jesus, John 1:1-14) and the Holy Spirit as these three are one.

On earth the Spirit (Holy Spirit), and the water (word of God spoken by Christ, John 12:49, 50), and the blood (sacrifice of Christ) and these three agree in one.

 

[Religiot]

No one can properly answer these questions, but can only speculate it was God that revealed all of this to the theif like that of Peter in Matthew 16:16, 17.



The law and the Prophets have have never ceased as even today they exist until Christ returns, Matthew 7:17-20; Matthew 22:34-40.

Luke 16:14-17 this is Jesus warning the Pharisees who were money lovers and turned up their nose to Jesus after He taught the parable of the unjust servant. Jesus tells them the law and the prophets were until John, since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. It wasn't until Jesus was baptized by John, not for repentance, but for the beginning of His ministry preaching the kingdom of God. John only preached repentance preparing the way to the kingdom of heaven.





John the Baptist never preached the kingdom of God as he said, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire, Matthew Chapter 3.

You are trying to reason scripture by using logic and assumptions adding to and taking away without realizing you are doing this. It takes more than just one verse to understand the full context as we compare scripture with scripture.

BTW, Just because others do not agree with each other does not mean they do not believe the scriptures. Discussions should never be an I'm right, your wrong attitude, but to give what you believe by giving scripture so others can go study them for themself in the full context of the word. We strive for unity among each other within all the forums and also need to be opened for correction where we might have missed something we did not see as we are ever learning within our studies.

I'm sorry, but how you are twisting what I am saying, along with how you are twisting the scriptures, makes it impossible for me to continue the conversation with you. Please understand.

The simplicity that is in the commandments of Christ, along with the simplicity of Christ Himself, along with the simplicity of the gospel, causes any naysayer to be in disobedience to the gospel.

As Paul--when quoted more fully than you quoted him--says,"But they have not all obeyed the gospel."

The gospel of Jesus Christ, Yehoshua Messiah, commences with John, with repentance, with baptism, this simplicity was, and is, a stumbling block to most religious leaders... I digress.

For clarity to any watching this conversation, I never said, nor implied, nor do I believe that the law and the prophets are done away with: I simply quoted what the Lord said about John, which means, that the preaching of the law and the prophets were until John, and since John, and by John, the Kingdom of Heaven is preached until now.

I cannot say it plainer than this, if you do not obey Jesus, you will die, if you do obey Him, you will live.

My responses to others in this thread serve as further clarity to my beliefs.

I'm sorry, but I cannot continue the conversation with you, because it will not be fruitful this way.

Please consider the ultimate effect of what you are presently doing.

Christ gave commands. Anyone contradicting His commands and actions, regardless of reasons, is wrong, just plain wrong.

Please turn from this, before you cannot.

 

[jasonc]

I am at a loss,where has one said you don't need baptism ?

I am,at a loss as if one must be baptised to repent then once one is on,their deathbed and on life support,they can't exactly be baptised ,it would be too late.

My pastor sees it as a command but not a requirement to be saved,its part of the walk to heaven but if a person repents on icu and dies ,he can't be baptised ,he doesn't see heaven.

 

[Religiot]

This stood out to me and wanted to address it separate from the rest of your post.

How could John preach the gospel before the ministry of Jesus began? All John would know is what the Prophets taught and prophesied of.

John had the Holy Spirit since he was in his mother's womb.

John is the greatest man to have ever lived.

John is a special vessel that God chose to end the preaching of the law and the prophets, and to commence the preaching of the Kingdom of Heaven.

John was that voice in the wilderness, that prepared the way of the Lord.

Now, because of his obedience, me, and you, and any who believe John about the Lord, can be greater than John ever was before God.

John was more than a prophet, he was how it pleased God to usher in His Son into His ministry; without miracles, and like a madman living in the desert wilderness...

John only knew the world as a man possessed by God's Holy Spirit, since before he was born.

So don't marvel at how John knew anything, just be sure to believe him.

 

[Religiot]

I am at a loss,where has one said you don't need baptism ?

I am,at a loss as if one must be baptised to repent then once one is on,their deathbed and on life support,they can't exactly be baptised ,it would be too late.

My pastor sees it as a command but not a requirement to be saved,its part of the walk to heaven but if a person repents on icu and dies ,he can't be baptised ,he doesn't see heaven.

Be at peace, brother, no one who belongs to God can be lost.

Moreover, the method of how you get water on you, or how you get in water, is not what saves you, but it is simply the obedience to Christ's command that saves you.

Prayer is nothing, if it is done without Christ.
Fasting is nothing, if it is done without Christ.
Preaching is nothing, if it is done without Christ.
Baptism is nothing, if it is done without Christ.

The purpose of the Doctrine of Christ is to sow in us the truth of faith, which will result in the obedience of faith, which is simply the fruit of righteousness. Simply, just obey what you hear the Lord say, and you will be saved.

 

[jasonc]

Be at peace, brother, no one who belongs to God can be lost.

Moreover, the method of how you get water on you, or how you get in water, is not what saves you, but it is simply the obedience to Christ's command that saves you.

Prayer is nothing, if it is done without Christ.
Fasting is nothing, if it is done without Christ.
Preaching is nothing, if it is done without Christ.
Baptism is nothing, if it is done without Christ.

The purpose of the Doctrine of Christ is to sow in us the truth of faith, which will result in the obedience of faith, which is simply the fruit of righteousness. Simply, just obey what you hear the Lord say, and you will be saved.

that isn't showing me how anyone here has said to IGNORE the baptism that Jesus commanded men to do. my church doesn't. many wait till there are a few willing or twice a year hold a class where by the person confesses openly their faith. my step daughter and her son were baptized the same day and one after the other. I had a video of that. it was held as a special service and the pastor taught on baptism to the church, and also communion was held. many churches such as one I did attend a few years ago had communion each sunday.

another church every easter will also hold a sunrise service and also baptize in the ocean during the service, they will ask after the class Is given who wants to be baptized.

for his glory, as I know her from my years here has NOT said baptism is to be ignore or unimportant. I wish people that believe that it is the only way with confession one is saved would actually understand or listen to the others who say, yes we see the importance but see it as an outward confession of the faith that is already.

i know a man who is a calvinist and would know what the early fathers would teach. the didache says a few things on communion and the types of water methods to baptise. sprinkling, dunk in a river,lake, the sea or bathhouse, what ever method to get water on you was the means. my church is a presbyterian. these as i have recently learned(those that hold the westminster confession, arp. believe in sprinkling as well as the others. which was a first for me. i was told only full fledge immersion was the way. the early church simply didnt. they said to use whatever means to baptism.

 

[Religiot]

that isn't showing me how anyone here has said to IGNORE the baptism that Jesus commanded men to do. my church doesn't. many wait till there are a few willing or twice a year hold a class where by the person confesses openly their faith. my step daughter and her son were baptized the same day and one after the other. I had a video of that. it was held as a special service and the pastor taught on baptism to the church, and also communion was held. many churches such as one I did attend a few years ago had communion each sunday.

another church every easter will also hold a sunrise service and also baptize in the ocean during the service, they will ask after the class Is given who wants to be baptized.

for his glory, as I know her from my years here has NOT said baptism is to be ignore or unimportant. I wish people that believe that it is the only way with confession one is saved would actually understand or listen to the others who say, yes we see the importance but see it as an outward confession of the faith that is already.

i know a man who is a calvinist and would know what the early fathers would teach. the didache says a few things on communion and the types of water methods to baptise. sprinkling, dunk in a river,lake, the sea or bathhouse, what ever method to get water on you was the means. my church is a presbyterian. these as i have recently learned(those that hold the westminster confession, arp. believe in sprinkling as well as the others. which was a first for me. i was told only full fledge immersion was the way. the early church simply didnt. they said to use whatever means to baptism.

Can faith alone save anyone?

 

[LovethroughDove]

Holy Spirit baptism is required.

Matthew 3:11 " I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."

Mark 1:8 "I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

Luke 3:16 John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

When you have been given the truth, you've been baptized into it.
John 14:15-17 If you love me, and will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever - The Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

 

[jasonc]

Can faith alone save anyone?

I see, I asked, and you didn't answer, I asked where has anyone, such as forhisglory has said baptism, isn't necessary, what she and I have said is that it is important but not the way you repent.

you want to convince me that has been baptized that in order to evangelize that I would have immediately have water ready should they repent. I know my church based upon the book of order wouldn't allow that.

What Presbyterians believe: the sacrament of baptism

What Presbyterians believe: baptism

www.pcusa.org

that I find what my pastor said to me after bible study. he did mention infant baptism. also full immersion. i asked before I decided to stay what was the doctrine of the church and the type. rare sadly to easily find statement of faiths. he aslo taught as I said.

luther and calvin arent exactly chumps and both taught and most churches today still do it and have classes on what that is and want the person to be growing a bit to understand the faith they openly confess. I may be arminist, i was raised on the easy simple prayer saves you which it can but not so much that salvation is a process and doesn't end. when you die its perfected, until then there is always time for growth and maturity and only God can do that. I have been saved for years. i was baptiswed two years after I repented and the pastor taught a class on that. I already read the subject and understood the teachinbgs and listend to other pastors on it. so I had no problem and I later on assited baptizing others and I baptized my wife.also my dad. I wasn't alone. so I do see it as part of the walk as the case with communion, also a command.


i simply don't and wont call someone who confess truthfully and dies not be able to be baptized as I agree with that article, it would limit God's sovreignity if we did that. I don't make that claim about men or women who repented and died before they had the chance.

a few years ago a teen at the age of 17 was slain in a car wreck. one week before he was killed during the Wednesday night service the pastor called out to the church within one week one of you will be dead, that boy came forward and asked to be saved and prayed to Jesus to be forgiven.

the pastor who later preached at the funeral and learned from his mother of this said he didn't know. he also touched other. I refuse to say that boy was lost as he acted on what God said to him and repented. my step daughter and grandson were baptized there. he would hold classes on that twice a year. I refuse to say that those that do it that way are preaching another gospel. of the churches that say as you do. the church of Christ teach that way. there may be more that teach baptism that way. I haven't heard that

 

[Religiot]

I see, I asked, and you didn't answer, I asked where has anyone, such as forhisglory has said baptism, isn't necessary, what she and I have said is that it is important but not the way you repent.

you want to convince me that has been baptized that in order to evangelize that I would have immediately have water ready should they repent. I know my church based upon the book of order wouldn't allow that.

What Presbyterians believe: the sacrament of baptism

What Presbyterians believe: baptism

www.pcusa.org

that I find what my pastor said to me after bible study. he did mention infant baptism. also full immersion. i asked before I decided to stay what was the doctrine of the church and the type. rare sadly to easily find statement of faiths. he aslo taught as I said.

luther and calvin arent exactly chumps and both taught and most churches today still do it and have classes on what that is and want the person to be growing a bit to understand the faith they openly confess. I may be arminist, i was raised on the easy simple prayer saves you which it can but not so much that salvation is a process and doesn't end. when you die its perfected, until then there is always time for growth and maturity and only God can do that. I have been saved for years. i was baptiswed two years after I repented and the pastor taught a class on that. I already read the subject and understood the teachinbgs and listend to other pastors on it. so I had no problem and I later on assited baptizing others and I baptized my wife.also my dad. I wasn't alone. so I do see it as part of the walk as the case with communion, also a command.


i simply don't and wont call someone who confess truthfully and dies not be able to be baptized as I agree with that article, it would limit God's sovreignity if we did that. I don't make that claim about men or women who repented and died before they had the chance.

a few years ago a teen at the age of 17 was slain in a car wreck. one week before he was killed during the Wednesday night service the pastor called out to the church within one week one of you will be dead, that boy came forward and asked to be saved and prayed to Jesus to be forgiven.

the pastor who later preached at the funeral and learned from his mother of this said he didn't know. he also touched other. I refuse to say that boy was lost as he acted on what God said to him and repented. my step daughter and grandson were baptized there. he would hold classes on that twice a year. I refuse to say that those that do it that way are preaching another gospel. of the churches that say as you do. the church of Christ teach that way. there may be more that teach baptism that way. I haven't heard that

Brother, you've just accused me falsely of what you just did literally.

I simply asked you, 'Can faith alone save anyone?', yet you've responded by accusing me of not answering a sequence of rhetorical questions and statements, which most did not follow at all from anything that I've said...

Brother, please slow down, and let us discuss this topic with as much grace as we could both muster.

Firstly, I will answer what I believe is your most primary question: In no case did I say that forhisglory said not to baptize at all; what I am saying, is that forhisglory has said, and is saying, and is making a case against baptism being a requirement.

If reread, my replies to forhisglory, and others, do show that I appeal to a simple belief in what the Lord commands, and it is from there that I build my faith by my practice of the same.

Now, please, answer my question--which is a truly simple question--Can faith alone save anyone?

 

[Religiot]

Holy Spirit baptism is required.

Matthew 3:11 " I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."

Mark 1:8 "I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

Luke 3:16 John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

When you have been given the truth, you've been baptized into it.
John 14:15-17 If you love me, and will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever - The Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

So did Peter have it wrong, or was he just obeying his Master, as should you? (Acts 10:44-48)

 

[jasonc]

Brother, you've just accused me falsely of what you just did literally.

I simply asked you, 'Can faith alone save anyone?', yet you've responded by accusing me of not answering a sequence of rhetorical questions and statements, which most did not follow at all from anything that I've said...

Brother, please slow down, and let us discuss this topic with as much grace as we could both muster.

Firstly, I will answer what I believe is your most primary question: In no case did I say that forhisglory said not to baptize at all; what I am saying, is that forhisglory has said, and is saying, and is making a case against baptism being a requirement.

If reread my replies to forhisglory, and others, you will see that I appeal to a simple belief in what the Lord commands, and it is from there that I build my faith by my practice of the same.

Now, please, answer my question--which is a truly simply question--Can faith alone save anyone?

Brother, you've just accused me falsely of what you just did literally.

I simply asked you, 'Can faith alone save anyone?', yet you've responded by accusing me of not answering a sequence of rhetorical questions and statements, which most did not follow at all from anything that I've said...

Brother, please slow down, and let us discuss this topic with as much grace as we could both muster.

Firstly, I will answer what I believe is your most primary question: In no case did I say that forhisglory said not to baptize at all; what I am saying, is that forhisglory has said, and is saying, and is making a case against baptism being a requirement.

If reread, my replies to forhisglory, and others, do show that I appeal to a simple belief in what the Lord commands, and it is from there that I build my faith by my practice of the same.

Now, please, answer my question--which is a truly simple question--Can faith alone save anyone?

CHURCH FATHERS: The Didache

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

www.newadvent.org

The didache ,on baptism odd,if it was the required me and to be saved why on earth would they command the lost to fast to be saved ,the baptiser and the recipient,were to fast,God hears the prayers of the lost .

They are per your view unregnerate .

Acts 3:19.

No,mention of being baptised to have sins washed away.
Acts 10:40 to
48,

The Holy Ghost fell upon them,since when did that happen to the lost.They had to repent ,if they were saved after the baptism they wouldn't have the baptism of the Holy Ghost and His power .

The lost will not recieve that without repentance.


If faith is real it will have works,for his glory has not said that it is without works.you want us to believe as you do that its a requirement when if it was.then God logically dwells in the lost ,and gives them power via His Holy Spirit .

Not so at all.

 

[Religiot]

CHURCH FATHERS: The Didache

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

www.newadvent.org

The didache ,on baptism odd,if it was the required me and to be saved why on earth would they command the lost to fast to be saved ,the baptiser and the recipient,were to fast,God hears the prayers of the lost .

They are per your view unregnerate .

Acts 3:19.

No,mention of being baptised to have sins washed away.
Acts 10:40 to
48,

The Holy Ghost fell upon them,since when did that happen to the lost.They had to repent ,if they were saved after the baptism they wouldn't have the baptism of the Holy Ghost and His power .

The lost will not recieve that without repentance.


If faith is real it will have works,for his glory has not said that it is without works.you want us to believe as you do that its a requirement when if it was.then God logically dwells in the lost ,and gives them power via His Holy Spirit .

Not so at all.

The Holy Spirit doesn't dwell in the lost, but may have been there, otherwise, who are these people? --Matthew 7:21-23; Hebrews 6:4-6; 2Peter 2:20-22; etc.

 

[LovethroughDove]

So did Peter have it wrong, or was he just obeying his Master, as should you? (Acts 10:44-48)

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Peter was correlating water with the Word/Truth/Life = Holy Spirit
Can anyone keep anyone away from the truth? Cause that part of scripture is emphasizing Gentiles could receive the Holy Spirit

Ephesians 5:26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word
Revelation 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!"Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.
John 4:13 Jesus answered, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the waterI give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

Acts 11:15-17 As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could oppose God?"

Right after the scripture you posted, here is Peter bringing up all the previous scriptures I posted about the Holy Spirit baptism

Acts 19:1-6 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?" "John's baptism,"they replied. Paul said,"John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

Self-explanatory, "heard" and were baptized unto the Lord. Also, these people didn't receive the Holy Spirit cause they had only heard of the John's literal water baptism.