Bible Study Battling evil desires

[K2CHRIST]

Hi Hopeful,
Nice to hear from you.
You say that John is addressing two different types of persons, those walking in the darkness and those walking in light.
In verses 6, 8 and 10 you say John is addressing those walking in the dark
Verses 5, 7 and 9 pertain to those walking in the light.

In every instance John uses the pronoun WE.
He also states in 1 John 2.12 that he is writing to "YOU, LITTLE CHILDREN".
He states that SINS are forgiven...sins pertains to when we sin.

Are you saying that a Christian cannot sin?
I'm not sure what you mean by "there is no sin in God, Who is light". (which you state above.)

John writes to fellow Christians and says plainly that their sins can be forgiven.
He tells us in John 20:23 that our sins will be forgiven.

It seems to me that we are capable of sin and are also forgiven when are sorry and ask forgiveness.
Do you agree?

Very Nice post - very accurate - and full of understanding!

If we understand the above post then we will understand that we should not make people coming to church with struggles relating to the desires of the flesh feel unwelcome and uncomfortable!!

Indeed we should understand that Jesus Christ, as King of kings and Lord or lords, sent us His Holy Spirit to bring sinful people to church that we might lead them to Him and the personal relationship He wants to have with them!

The work of God is that all should come to know the Son. That is the work of God and thus the work we are involved with when we walk with Him. We are not out to judge and/or condemn them, we are out to save them by getting them to personally get to know Jesus (God's salvation)!

Indeed, if any got to personally know Him, didn't He give you reproof, teachings, wonderful counsel, and so on - and didn't that show you areas of your life that were not all they should have been - sinful areas - and all unrighteousness is sin. Our help comes from above. It comes from Him. And we need Him - all of us need Him - All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God - So who gets to throw the first stone, accusation, judgement or condemnation - it is us? It is not us - we are to point people to Jesus Christ!

So what has He told you personally today? I heard to come take a walk with Him... so bye for now.

 

[jerry63935]

Once atoned for, consecrated, set apart, blessed, and made holy, how can we be re-atoned for, re-consecrated, re-set apart, re-made holy?
One is either sanctified or they are unclean, polluted, and impure.

I AM NOT GOING TO EXPALIN ANY MORE .its like a mule looking at a new gate off course i am sure this will either be reported or seen lol dont matter its the truth.

 

[jerry63935]

So that type of judgement,

the white throne judgement is for the lost the bema seat we give account of the good and bad .this is the rewards seat

 

[jerry63935]

It seems to me that we are capable of sin and are also forgiven when are sorry and ask forgiveness.
Do you agree?

this is why john wrote these things i write to you -
1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

 

[Hopeful]

Do you not still see the problem with your understanding of when things are happening?
You wrote "so that we can be judged as righteous" but it is not "can be" because we already are counted as righteous because we believe. Our sins are forgiven and He said He would remember them no more - and that we have passed out of judgement/ condemnation. So that type of judgement, the type that might condemn us to hell as opposed to heaven takes places when we start listening to Him!!!

Your POV missed 1Peter 4:5..."Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead."
If, as you say, we have already been judged, why would God still be ready to judge us again?
All men will be judged on the day Christ returns with His fiery angels to take His righteous vengeance.
Matt 12:36..."But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment."
Judgement has yet to come.
Acts 24:25..."And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.
Judgement is yet to come.
2 Cor 5:10..."For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."
Judgement is yet to come.
Heb 9:27..."And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"
...but after this the judgement.

 

[Hopeful]

I AM NOT GOING TO EXPALIN ANY MORE .its like a mule looking at a new gate off course i am sure this will either be reported or seen lol dont matter its the truth.

I just read this morning..."And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified." (Acts 20:32)
If you are not sanctified, you are not of them that have the inheritance.
Thankfully, sanctification happens rather simply.
As Peter said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
Results?
An ex-sinner who has been washed by the blood of Christ of all past sin and is now the residence of the Holy Ghost.

 

[GodsGrace]

John also uses the word "IF".

I am indeed saying those in Christ cannot sin, as 1 John 3:9 also says.

Capable of sin...yes, but as our rebirth from Godly seed prevents us from bringing forth the fruit of the devil, it will never happen.
Further sin negates both our repentance from sin and our rebirth.
Keep walking in the light!

Hopeful,
I'm happy to hear that you never sin...this is wonderful.

However. I don't believe it to be true or possible, But the important thing is that you love and serve the Lord Jesus.

There are two reasons why I believe all persons sin.

1. If we are given a way to forgive us our sins...it must surely mean that we sin.
This idea is addressed to Christians, not non-believers. Non-believers are not saved to begin with and thus they require
no way of escape....they are already lost.

It's the believing person for whom a way has been created when they sin. And this is through confessing our sin with sorrow.
John says in 1 John 1:10 that if we say we have not sinned, we make God a liar.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

They above may sound like it is speaking of the past sins in our lives...but 1 John 1:8 takes care of that claim by saying
IF WE HAVE NO SIN....which is clearly referring to the present.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

As in verses 6, 7 and 8...this is referring to the present.

As to 1 John 3:9....
1 John chapter 3 is speaking about PRACTICING sin and practicing righteousness. It refers to making sin a habit and living a LIFE OF SIN.
You are correct in believing that we do not PRACTICE sin....this would be walking in the dark and children of God do not walk in the dark.

Also, please note that practice is a progressive verb...an ongoing action.
If you practice reading it means you are reading at this time in your life and in the future.


2. Some church history would be helpful here,
It was originally believed that once a person was baptized they would never sin again.
But it became apparent that the sinning continued, even if it was not a lifestyle.
This is the reason some denominations have confession....for the forgiveness of sins that occur after one is born again and baptized.

I leave you with this and will say that we should not cause distress to believers who hear that some do not sin. This could be harmful and is not even true.

1 Timothy 5:19-20​

Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.


Even an elder can sin.
And some can PERSIST in sin, which is what I was referring to above.

 

[jerry63935]

I just read this morning..."And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified." (Acts 20:32)
If you are not sanctified, you are not of them that have the inheritance.

please take time to read very carefully ...I Never said we was NOT SANCTFIED I SAID THERE IS 3 PARTS/STAGES postinal progressive ultimate sanctified is set apart to be made Holy which is a growth process we are changed from Glory to Glory... why do think the word Change is used?

 

[GodsGrace]

Very Nice post - very accurate - and full of understanding!

If we understand the above post then we will understand that we should not make people coming to church with struggles relating to the desires of the flesh feel unwelcome and uncomfortable!!

Indeed we should understand that Jesus Christ, as King of kings and Lord or lords, sent us His Holy Spirit to bring sinful people to church that we might lead them to Him and the personal relationship He wants to have with them!

The work of God is that all should come to know the Son. That is the work of God and thus the work we are involved with when we walk with Him. We are not out to judge and/or condemn them, we are out to save them by getting them to personally get to know Jesus (God's salvation)!

Indeed, if any got to personally know Him, didn't He give you reproof, teachings, wonderful counsel, and so on - and didn't that show you areas of your life that were not all they should have been - sinful areas - and all unrighteousness is sin. Our help comes from above. It comes from Him. And we need Him - all of us need Him - All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God - So who gets to throw the first stone, accusation, judgement or condemnation - it is us? It is not us - we are to point people to Jesus Christ!

So what has He told you personally today? I heard to come take a walk with Him... so bye for now.

Hi K2Christ
Yes...WALK with Him.
Walk is a continuing verb...it doesn't happen only one time...it happens every day.

The difference between the Old and New Testament is the ability we now have to walk with God and not live a sinful life.
In both the old and the new we are required to obey God and what He commands us (to the best of our ability)...
but the difference is that now the Holy Spirit abides in us and gives us the strength to defeat a sinful life.

John said it simply, as you've stated.
Children..DO NOT SIN...
BUT IF you do sin....we will be forgiven.

Amen.

 

[Hopeful]

Hopeful,
I'm happy to hear that you never sin...this is wonderful.
However. I don't believe it to be true or possible, But the important thing is that you love and serve the Lord Jesus.

How can you see it as wonderful if you don't believe God made a way to do it?
One cannot love and serve the Lord by committing sin.
Just the opposite.

There are two reasons why I believe all persons sin.
1. If we are given a way to forgive us our sins...it must surely mean that we sin.
This idea is addressed to Christians, not non-believers. Non-believers are not saved to begin with and thus they require
no way of escape....they are already lost.

Does having a cure for shingles mean we must all get shingles?
I love God enough to forgo sin after my repentance from sin.

It's the believing person for whom a way has been created when they sin. And this is through confessing our sin with sorrow.
John says in 1 John 1:10 that if we say we have not sinned, we make God a liar.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

I sinned plenty before I started walking in the light.
But it is written that God is light, so as there is no sin in God, there can be no sin in those in God either.
Be one of those who have had all their sins washed away by the blood of Christ and then don't ever leave the light.

They above may sound like it is speaking of the past sins in our lives...but 1 John 1:8 takes care of that claim by saying
IF WE HAVE NO SIN....which is clearly referring to the present.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
As in verses 6, 7 and 8...this is referring to the present.

Actually, verses 6, 8, and 10 all pertain to those walking in darkness, not in the light.
Verses 5, 7, and 9 pertain to those whose repentance from sin was true.
Those in the light.
The verses pertinent to the light don't apply to those in darkness, nor do the verses pertinent to darkness apply to those in the light.
John is describing two very different kinds of walk, and two very different kinds of men.

As to 1 John 3:9....
1 John chapter 3 is speaking about PRACTICING sin and practicing righteousness. It refers to making sin a habit and living a LIFE OF SIN.
You are correct in believing that we do not PRACTICE sin....this would be walking in the dark and children of God do not walk in the dark.
Also, please note that practice is a progressive verb...an ongoing action.
If you practice reading it means you are reading at this time in your life and in the future.

No it isn't.
That would make Jesus' parables about a seed bring forth only after itself lies.
The fruit of the seed is indicative of the source of the fruit.
God's seed cannot bear the fruit of the devil.

2. Some church history would be helpful here,
It was originally believed that once a person was baptized they would never sin again.
But it became apparent that the sinning continued, even if it was not a lifestyle.
This is the reason some denominations have confession....for the forgiveness of sins that occur after one is born again and baptized.

Were that the case, Jewish theology would have been sufficient for salvation.
All that would have been accomplished by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ would have been the freeing of the sacrificial animals.
But Jesus freed us from sin. (John 8:32-34)

I leave you with this and will say that we should not cause distress to believers who hear that some do not sin. This could be harmful and is not even true.

1 Timothy 5:19-20​

Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.

Are you not one who wants to "persist in sin"?
It would seem to be the theme of your post.
I hope I am wrong.

Even an elder can sin.
And some can PERSIST in sin, which is what I was referring to above.

Or, they could have a real, permanent, "turn" from sin. (2 Cor 7:10)
As Paul wrote..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)

 

[Hopeful]

please take time to read very carefully ...I Never said we was NOT SANCTFIED I SAID THERE IS 3 PARTS/STAGES postinal progressive ultimate sanctified is set apart to be made Holy which is a growth process we are changed from Glory to Glory... why do think the word Change is used?

How can one be sanctified yet require two more steps to be sanctified?
One is either holy, or they are unholy.

 

[jerry63935]

How can one be sanctified yet require two more steps to be sanctified?
One is either holy, or they are unholy.

you ever heard the expression like a mule looking at a new gate? i have explained it to you..but not any more the gate is still there

 

[K2CHRIST]

the white throne judgement is for the lost the bema seat we give account of the good and bad .this is the rewards seat

Yes -Then not for the sheep who hear His voice. They have passed out of that judgement that condemns people. And that is what we read.

Jn 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

or if someone prefers

KJV 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

So then judgment or condemnation if you then get something wrong (unrighteousness) is not a factor. Hear Him is the factor! Of course if a person hears Him they are gong to make some attempts to try to do the right thing, which is what He tells them. What they are not going to do is to think their mind tells them the right things to do. It is not their mind but His voice that the right answers come from! And someone suggested that by their mind they know the right thing to do and is how they know the right thing to do. Then if someone doesn't see things exactly according to their mind, the person is wrong - Is it not true that it is the person who hears from the Lord and thus try to do the things He tells them who is doing the right thing even if they make mistakes doing it.

 

[K2CHRIST]

I just read this morning..."And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified." (Acts 20:32)

It's nice to read that you read that. So, do you understand that Jesus Christ is the Word of God because He speaks words to us via the Holy Spirit?

Do you understand that reading the Bible is not what the above verse is about - it is about hearing the Lord!!

If you listen to Him you hear the words He tells you via His Holy Spirit speaking to your spirit! That is what the Holy Scriptures tells us!

Still, Jesus had to tell the Jews: Jn 5:39,40 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

I put the above in the KJV for you

That because you expressed a concern about whether I was only looking at my NASB instead of your KJV. Which begs the question of whether someone is so into their Bible that they are not seeking the voice of the Lord - which seems to point to the problem Jesus explain above. We know He didn't speak Old English to them and we know that He doesn't speak Old English to us today either, right? I mean when He talks to me in words via His Holy Spirit speaking to my spirit He does not speak to me in Aramaic, nor Greek, nor Hebrew, nor even Old English, but He does speak to me.

So " the word of his grace" comes to me in my language (American or New American), and I am not talking about the New American Bible but His voice. And we read that if we hear His voice we do not come into condemnation or Judgment if you read the New American Standard Bible. They both say the same thing them, just in a different language. And it does really bother me so long as we can communicate. But if might matter if I was searching the Scriptures thinking in them I had life as opposed to going to Him and hearing what He has to say.

Which causes me to think about that question you never answer, that of course I don't need answered but we all need to

Hi K2Christ
Yes...WALK with Him.
Walk is a continuing verb...it doesn't happen only one time...it happens every day.

The difference between the Old and New Testament is the ability we now have to walk with God and not live a sinful life.

Now the Scriptures explain that all unrighteousness is sin. And we get things wrong. We might not want to and we should not be trying to but we do. We even find ourselves do the very thing we don't want, just like Paul (not Saul the Pharisee on the road to Damascus) but Paul the Spirit filled believer who wrote so much of he New Testament. You read some of what Paul wrote, did you not? Maybe you missed:

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Paul, The Christian believer, wrote the above verse which reads "I do" and he keeps writing it but Paul the believer discovers something important to understand and something he did not understand when he was the Pharisee on the road.

Rom 7:16,17 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

So the believer figured out that he was doing the things he did not want! It was the believer who figured out that "sin dwelleth" in him because the believer Paul who wanted to do good the right thing didn't always do that. He found the principle that sin was in him!

Rom 7:21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

The self righteous Pharisee called Saul did not know that. He was blind spiritually speaks, and did not see the Truth and Light, Jesus Christ! The same man but now Christian man called Paul had his eyes opened to the truth and light and had becomes aware of what we going on in the spiritual realm and how it was effecting him inside. Saul would have remained blind had not the Light spoke to him on the road. Because Jesus Christ spoke to him he became aware of the truth, that we battle with the dark forces of this world.

So who is it that walks with the Lord Jesus Christ?

Is it the person unaware of the principle of sin dwelling in them or the person who has seen the Light and knows the Truth, who is Jesus Christ?

If you don't know that problems you have, meaning the battle you have with the dark forces in your life, how are you going to win those battles? Will you even seek the Lord Jesus Christ and His teaching, wonderful counsel, and His wisdom if you think you do everything right? You won't!!

People like to say they walk with Him, but if they don't realize that they do things wrong (which is sin) and are only counted as righteous because they know Him and He is helping them, then they are still in the dark. They are still blind. They don't know the Truth, and do not even hear the Truth talking to them. Jesus said He stands at the door and knocks, but before saying the to John (as recorded in Revelation) He said He reproves those He loves! We need that reproof.

I have never been arrested in my life. I have not had a problems with drugs, alcohol, and such. I have tried to lead, but my own abilities, a good life. I worked hard all my life. If you would know me you would not think of me as a sinful man, but people might call me a "good" man. I know better, and I know better because I know the One and only "good" man to have walked on this world in the flesh. We talk and I found out the only God is good. As for me, I write too much. I do it for "Good" reason, which is to say that He tells me to write on this forum. He told me to right before writing this. I still wrote to much - but people saying they are Christian and say they know the Truth seem to think they are righteous by their "good" deeds and their "good" works instead of because they believe in Him and He counts that as righteousness.

Do they really walk with Him and not know this? Did He lie when He said He reproves those He loves? Something it not right!!!

 

[Hopeful]

It's nice to read that you read that. So, do you understand that Jesus Christ is the Word of God because He speaks words to us via the Holy Spirit?

He was the Word long before He ever spoke to us, not because He did speak to us.

Do you understand that reading the Bible is not what the above verse is about - it is about hearing the Lord!!

De-rail...

If you listen to Him you hear the words He tells you via His Holy Spirit speaking to your spirit! That is what the Holy Scriptures tells us!

Still, Jesus had to tell the Jews: Jn 5:39,40 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

I put the above in the KJV for you

That because you expressed a concern about whether I was only looking at my NASB instead of your KJV. Which begs the question of whether someone is so into their Bible that they are not seeking the voice of the Lord - which seems to point to the problem Jesus explain above. We know He didn't speak Old English to them and we know that He doesn't speak Old English to us today either, right? I mean when He talks to me in words via His Holy Spirit speaking to my spirit He does not speak to me in Aramaic, nor Greek, nor Hebrew, nor even Old English, but He does speak to me.

So " the word of his grace" comes to me in my language (American or New American), and I am not talking about the New American Bible but His voice. And we read that if we hear His voice we do not come into condemnation or Judgment if you read the New American Standard Bible. They both say the same thing them, just in a different language. And it does really bother me so long as we can communicate. But if might matter if I was searching the Scriptures thinking in them I had life as opposed to going to Him and hearing what He has to say.

Which causes me to think about that question you never answer, that of course I don't need answered but we all need to


Now the Scriptures explain that all unrighteousness is sin. And we get things wrong. We might not want to and we should not be trying to but we do. We even find ourselves do the very thing we don't want, just like Paul (not Saul the Pharisee on the road to Damascus) but Paul the Spirit filled believer who wrote so much of he New Testament. You read some of what Paul wrote, did you not? Maybe you missed:

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Paul, The Christian believer, wrote the above verse which reads "I do" and he keeps writing it but Paul the believer discovers something important to understand and something he did not understand when he was the Pharisee on the road.

Rom 7:16,17 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

So the believer figured out that he was doing the things he did not want! It was the believer who figured out that "sin dwelleth" in him because the believer Paul who wanted to do good the right thing didn't always do that. He found the principle that sin was in him!

Rom 7:21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

The self righteous Pharisee called Saul did not know that. He was blind spiritually speaks, and did not see the Truth and Light, Jesus Christ! The same man but now Christian man called Paul had his eyes opened to the truth and light and had becomes aware of what we going on in the spiritual realm and how it was effecting him inside. Saul would have remained blind had not the Light spoke to him on the road. Because Jesus Christ spoke to him he became aware of the truth, that we battle with the dark forces of this world.

 

[K2CHRIST]

He was the Word long before He ever spoke to us, not because He did speak to us.

YES - Jesus Christ was indeed the Word long before He spoke to us. He was the Word from the beginning.

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

That is who Jesus Christ is. He is the Word of God because He has the words of God. His Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, takes from what is His (His words) and gives them to us (See Jn16) So it is that He talks to me. I hear Him and pick Him up in words. So what does He tell me? - Lots of things!! The thing I hear the most is that He loves me. He tells me that I am His friend. That amazes me, that He, The very Word of God, considers Himself to be my friend. Yet also reproves me when I start going the wrong way, that then because I was starting to go the wrong way. What does that mean? It means that being a human being I can do things wrong. In fact I often see that I am doing the very thing I don't want to do - like perhaps getting mad at a driver that cuts me off, or perhaps there is a good looking woman that catches my eye, or perhaps it is getting upset at our politicians, or maybe I get too blunt with others, or......

The point is that all unrighteousness is sin and I don't always do the right thing. That is easy to see. So I can appreciate what Paul, the Christian writer who wrote much of the New Testament wrote. He explained that he too found himself doing the very things he did not want to do, but if he didn't want to do them then sin must be the one doing it. Thus Paul figured out the battle with the dark forces, which apparently many "Christians" have not. They think they don't have sin, can't sin, and always do the right thing! That Paul, who we know listened to the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ, did not do! And neither did John, who also knew the Lord, walked with Him, talked with Him, because John wrote to a group he included himself with, saying "we", and explained that if anyone (not we) sin not understand they had sin that the truth was not in them (again, not we)

So we Christians understand we have an on going battle with sin, and we find the principle that sin dwells in us, whether we like it or not. Thus being cleansed did not mean we could not sin, but that our sins our forgiven!! If then our sins our forgiven, we are counted at righteous based on our faith, not our good works! So then, if a person comes to our church we don't judge them. That is not our job, it is God's job. Therefore Jesus explained that He did not come into this world to judge, and also that He did not judge but as He heard He judged. Jesus did and said only what the Father told Him, and the Father gave Him the very words of God. And nobody knows the Father except the Son - or perhaps any who the Son shows by passing along the words of God that Son owns to you via the Holy Spirit.

There fore there is no place in Christianity for "self-righteousness"!! Which is say do the right actions by using our mind and taking action - which someone said to do. Instead we seek the Lord and His righteousness, which simply means we listen to what He has to say to us!

So then, who are we to judge anyone coming to our church??? Are we God, or those serving God?

Sadly people come to our the Christian churches and say there are a bunch of "self-righteous" people there! Perhaps they are wrong, but often they are not. We read about that; meaning we read about people like us in the Bible. They go before the Lord with an unfaithful women wanting to stone her to death. In the same way we find someone posting about people with a desire for others of the same sex coming to church, and some want to throw the law of God which came down on stone tablets at them!

Isn't it obvious that we lack understanding!!!

And isn't it written that understanding comes from His mouth?

So we are not listening to Him like we should!!! Instead we are indeed leaning on our own understanding, which brings us right back to being "self-righteous" and guilty as accused. He might not count it against us because of our faith, but do we have faith if we have not heard Him reproving us for that sin of ours?

I hear Him. He reproves me. He often reproves me for judging and condemning others. That doesn't mean we don't correct others. A pastor is right to listen to the Lord and bring the correction the Lord wants from the podium. Of course God did not make us to desire sexual encounters with others of the same sex. That doesn't mean the dark forces are not about promoting that idea and working to pervert the sexual desire God did give us in our flesh. And is that any different from my eye going to a good looking woman, even though I am of the opposite sex. He tells me to "cut that out" if I start doing that. It is better to cut out the eye, but I am talking spiritually speaking. God is spirit.

Again, Paul and John understood what too many Christians hear don't seem to understand. They understand the principle that sins dwells in us, and that is where the battle with dark forces take place. So if you say you have no sin the truth in not in you!!! You remember me pointing out that verse to you numerous times, right?

Prov

 

[jerry63935]

romans 7: 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

 

[GodsGrace]

How can you see it as wonderful if you don't believe God made a way to do it?
One cannot love and serve the Lord by committing sin.
Just the opposite.

Does having a cure for shingles mean we must all get shingles?
I love God enough to forgo sin after my repentance from sin.

I sinned plenty before I started walking in the light.
But it is written that God is light, so as there is no sin in God, there can be no sin in those in God either.
Be one of those who have had all their sins washed away by the blood of Christ and then don't ever leave the light.

Actually, verses 6, 8, and 10 all pertain to those walking in darkness, not in the light.
Verses 5, 7, and 9 pertain to those whose repentance from sin was true.
Those in the light.
The verses pertinent to the light don't apply to those in darkness, nor do the verses pertinent to darkness apply to those in the light.
John is describing two very different kinds of walk, and two very different kinds of men.

No it isn't.
That would make Jesus' parables about a seed bring forth only after itself lies.
The fruit of the seed is indicative of the source of the fruit.
God's seed cannot bear the fruit of the devil.

Were that the case, Jewish theology would have been sufficient for salvation.
All that would have been accomplished by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ would have been the freeing of the sacrificial animals.
But Jesus freed us from sin. (John 8:32-34)

Are you not one who wants to "persist in sin"?
It would seem to be the theme of your post.
I hope I am wrong.

Or, they could have a real, permanent, "turn" from sin. (2 Cor 7:10)
As Paul wrote..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)

We're dealing here with a two edged sword which could bring to misunderstanding.

First....Some believe they could keep on sinning and still be saved.
I'm not one of those.
I believe those that love God will sin less and less due to the help of the Holy Spirit, who lives within us.


Second....saying we never sin is incorrect and very disheartening to a new believer. This could make one feel that if they sin, they are not saved or are no longer saved.

Let's try to determine the difference between sinning and living in sin and sin.

SIN
A person is born lost and he is walking with the evil one. He may be sinning a lot or he may be sinning very little, but he is lost nonetheless due to his SIN....the SIN that is living within him...the sin nature, concupiscence, call it what you will - we are all born with this.

LIVING IN SIN
A person that is living in sin pays no regard to his sin...it means nothing to him.
There is no consideration for a higher being, or belief in one. Or, maybe they believe in a higher
being but are unable to devote their life to God, for whatever reason.
A christian cannot LIVE IN SIN because it would mean the Holy Spirit is not dwelling within him.

SINNING
We all sin, even we believers.
We are kept from much sin because of the prodding by the Holy Spirit, because of our God-formed conscience, and because we don't have a desire to grieve the Holy Spirit.

I will not repeat the reasons why I know even Christians can sin.
I would only say that the better you come to know God and the closer you get to Him, the more you realize
what wretched souls we are and how thankful we can be that God has given us the ability to call ourselves Sons of God.


As to your remark about the Old Testament, which was:
No it isn't.
That would make Jesus' parables about a seed bring forth only after itself lies.
The fruit of the seed is indicative of the source of the fruit.
God's seed cannot bear the fruit of the devil.

Were that the case, Jewish theology would have been sufficient for salvation.
All that would have been accomplished by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ would have been the freeing of the sacrificial animals.
But Jesus freed us from sin. (John 8:32-34)

Re a seed dying ---Jesus was speaking about Himself.
We also must die to ourselves to follow Jesus.
I'm not sure what this means in regards to sinning after becoming a believer.

And, yes, Jewish theology was sufficient for salvation.
Were persons not saved before the New Testament time?
Jesus died before time in order to save all mankind. His death saved those before, during, and after His time on earth.
So the same theology that saved persons in the O.T. also saves persons in the N.T.

 

[Hopeful]

YES - Jesus Christ was indeed the Word long before He spoke to us. He was the Word from the beginning.

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

That is who Jesus Christ is. He is the Word of God because He has the words of God. His Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, takes from what is His (His words) and gives them to us (See Jn16) So it is that He talks to me. I hear Him and pick Him up in words. So what does He tell me? - Lots of things!! The thing I hear the most is that He loves me. He tells me that I am His friend. That amazes me, that He, The very Word of God, considers Himself to be my friend. Yet also reproves me when I start going the wrong way, that then because I was starting to go the wrong way. What does that mean? It means that being a human being I can do things wrong. In fact I often see that I am doing the very thing I don't want to do - like perhaps getting mad at a driver that cuts me off, or perhaps there is a good looking woman that catches my eye, or perhaps it is getting upset at our politicians, or maybe I get too blunt with others, or......

The point is that all unrighteousness is sin and I don't always do the right thing. That is easy to see. So I can appreciate what Paul, the Christian writer who wrote much of the New Testament wrote. He explained that he too found himself doing the very things he did not want to do, but if he didn't want to do them then sin must be the one doing it. Thus Paul figured out the battle with the dark forces, which apparently many "Christians" have not. They think they don't have sin, can't sin, and always do the right thing! That Paul, who we know listened to the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ, did not do! And neither did John, who also knew the Lord, walked with Him, talked with Him, because John wrote to a group he included himself with, saying "we", and explained that if anyone (not we) sin not understand they had sin that the truth was not in them (again, not we)

So we Christians understand we have an on going battle with sin, and we find the principle that sin dwells in us, whether we like it or not. Thus being cleansed did not mean we could not sin, but that our sins our forgiven!! If then our sins our forgiven, we are counted at righteous based on our faith, not our good works! So then, if a person comes to our church we don't judge them. That is not our job, it is God's job. Therefore Jesus explained that He did not come into this world to judge, and also that He did not judge but as He heard He judged. Jesus did and said only what the Father told Him, and the Father gave Him the very words of God. And nobody knows the Father except the Son - or perhaps any who the Son shows by passing along the words of God that Son owns to you via the Holy Spirit.

There fore there is no place in Christianity for "self-righteousness"!! Which is say do the right actions by using our mind and taking action - which someone said to do. Instead we seek the Lord and His righteousness, which simply means we listen to what He has to say to us!

So then, who are we to judge anyone coming to our church??? Are we God, or those serving God?

Sadly people come to our the Christian churches and say there are a bunch of "self-righteous" people there! Perhaps they are wrong, but often they are not. We read about that; meaning we read about people like us in the Bible. They go before the Lord with an unfaithful women wanting to stone her to death. In the same way we find someone posting about people with a desire for others of the same sex coming to church, and some want to throw the law of God which came down on stone tablets at them!

Isn't it obvious that we lack understanding!!!

And isn't it written that understanding comes from His mouth?

So we are not listening to Him like we should!!! Instead we are indeed leaning on our own understanding, which brings us right back to being "self-righteous" and guilty as accused. He might not count it against us because of our faith, but do we have faith if we have not heard Him reproving us for that sin of ours?

I hear Him. He reproves me. He often reproves me for judging and condemning others. That doesn't mean we don't correct others. A pastor is right to listen to the Lord and bring the correction the Lord wants from the podium. Of course God did not make us to desire sexual encounters with others of the same sex. That doesn't mean the dark forces are not about promoting that idea and working to pervert the sexual desire God did give us in our flesh. And is that any different from my eye going to a good looking woman, even though I am of the opposite sex. He tells me to "cut that out" if I start doing that. It is better to cut out the eye, but I am talking spiritually speaking. God is spirit.

Again, Paul and John understood what too many Christians hear don't seem to understand. They understand the principle that sins dwells in us, and that is where the battle with dark forces take place. So if you say you have no sin the truth in not in you!!! You remember me pointing out that verse to you numerous times, right?

Prov

We disagree.

 

[Hopeful]

romans 7: 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

It is written..."For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death." (Rom 7:5)
As Paul was no longer in the flesh, it is clear that his recollections were of a time before his flesh was crucified with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6)
They were from the past.