Bible Study Battling evil desires

[Hopeful]

The Spirit was telling me, "Karl, the message is not 'You sinners, you need the Lord Jesus Christ' it is 'We sinners, we need the Lord Jesus Christ."

The Holy Spirit doesn't commit sin, so it can't be God's Spirit saying that.

Is this not right? Is it not written that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God? Is it not written to all of us that our help comes from above.

It is true, but we don't have to continue sinning.

I have had people tell me that if someone comes an alcoholic, they have to be very careful to not let it come back on them. I actually heard some tell me that once and alcoholic always an alcoholic so they can't even take a single drink or else they might fall of the wagon. It is a battle, a struggle for them. Now I am not saying the Lord can't help, but I was told this by very dedicated Christians. BTW, that is not a problem I have. I don't like the taste of alcohol and never have,

My problem is more with soda. I drink to much soda for sure, and the Lord deals with me concerning that. He doesn't make me stop but He often has me cut back. He often asks me to go a day or two without soda. But if you don't listen to Him everyday called "Today" do you even know what your struggle is with?

Do we even know that it is a sin to not listen to Him???

Still, He stands at the door and knocks and we don't open the door and spend time talking back and forth with Him everyday. Then we sometimes think we are righteous and always do the right thing, forgetting that all unrighteousness is sin. If you did not hear from Him today, you are a sinner!! What day do you think you should hear from Him if not "Today"?

So if I was to ask, you should be able to tell me about the conversations that you and Him had.

Heb 3:7 Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says, “TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,

Rev 3:20 ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

So if He is always standing there knocking with His voice, you must have always been hearing Him knock with His voice, so certainly "Today" at the very least you should have heard from Him.

He needn't knock anymore, once the door has been opened.

 

[K2CHRIST]

The Holy Spirit doesn't commit sin, so it can't be God's Spirit saying that.

It is true, but we don't have to continue sinning.

He needn't knock anymore, once the door has been opened.

The Holy Spirit doesn't commit sin, but He convicts us of our sin - so indeed the message that He gives us to give to others is that we are sinner in need of Jesus Christ - but only those listening to Him believe the message.

We never had to sin, but we don't keep listening to Him and doing what He says. BTW - I noticed you didn't answer the question, but I don't need to know the answer you do. The answer would have changed your thinking.

He knocks because He needs to - and did you notice that the verse was to a church - not to a bunch of unbelievers but "Believers" - Indeed all seven churches (believers) were told to hear what the Spirit has to say - and that too would not have to have been written if they were listening to Him who is still standing at the door and knocking with His voice to get the attention of church going Christians.

And you know what else was written to church members - most all the letters that make up the New Testament!

1 Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

That was written to help and instruct those we would call Christians.

1 Jn 1:4 These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete.

It is true that John was telling them things like "The Holy Spirit doesn't commit sin,', but it is just as true that John did not want them unaware of sin in their lives. A spirit telling a Christian that they have no sin is causing then to deceive themselves, and thus the truth in them. Did you see the "we" in that message. John was including himself as a Christian with them. So the message the Holy Spirit told John to preach was just like what He told me - " indeed the message that He gives us to give to others is that we are sinner in need of Jesus Christ" - That "we" does not include the Holy Spirit - but it is the message for "we" Christians to give to other Christians and is exactly the message John gave - Yet some are deceiving themselves or John would not have had to write what He did.

 

[K2CHRIST]

Did you miss the scripture I included about being judged on the last day?

Did you miss the part about how we are not judged and have already passed through it?

Jn 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

He went over that with me. When I started hearing from Him there were a number of things I wanted to know about. One of those things was of course the "judgement day" that soo many talk about. He talked to me a lot about it, because He comforts me. He asked me, "Well Karl, do you hear me." Of course I had to hear Him to hear that, but I did hear that. He pointed out the "Truly, truly" part, explaining that He said "Truly, truly" for a reason, and that is because people like me, who start hearing from Him usually have that same questioned I have, and it is of some great concern to them.

Still, the people who don't hear His words, don't ask Him that question because they can't believe for a response in words from Him. Thus they want to miss or ignore that verse (John 5:24) and skip on to the judgment day, which they fear, and they should because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, so you must have had your name written in the book of life. That happens because you believe in Him.

Of us it is written “FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES, AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE.” ( Heb 8:12) We just have our names written down - the record of any of our sins can't be found - if you hear His word, and believe Him who sent Him. So you need to ask yourself, what exactly have you heard from Him. Did you test the spirit by asking them if Jesus Christ came in the flesh, and listening to their answer? Do you hear His voice on the day that we should all hear His voice "Today"?

Have you not also talked to Him about what you read in the Bible - and especially about that part about "about being judged on the last day?"

Again - I did and He took me to Jn 5:24, and I heard Him talking to me about it. Sooo many things there are that I talk to Him about. "Today" I talked to Him and heard from Him - not perfectly and not all the time though. I watched some soccer today with my son and we talked. I talked to my wife some today also. I should have talked to Him some more, but we talked several times. Like when He reminded me that I promised to make a hamburger for you today.

His sheep hear His voice - and it is just like hearing anyone's voice except God is spirit - not the only spirit - so I have to be aware - but I hear from Him. He calls me His friend. I guess we are. After all - He showed me how to make the hamburgers the way I do. So I call them, heavenly hamburgers, because He gave me specific instructions concerning what spice and sauce to us.

 

[K2CHRIST]

Yes. The sheep being those that accepted Christ while living. The goats th3 ones that refused to believe.
This happens before we die. Not after.
Judgement is only the consequence of our choices in life.

Th3 mind controls the body. ?

Actually, there is a choice we can make that results in non-judgement!!

Jn 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Since all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God the only way not make it to heaven is to have Him forget our sins,

“FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES, AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE.” ( Heb 8:12)

The lie is that we, by our mind, are or can be good enough to get into heaven. We are saved by faith. Knowing that should mean that we love Him more, seek Him more, and want to listen to Him more. If we do that He doesn't remember our sins, but works at helping us, teaching us, giving us wonderful counsel, and basically He become our Lord, meaning we hear instruction from Him, so that we don't lean on our understanding!



And while God gave us a mind to make choices with - the wise choice to make with our mind is to seek His mind for our choices!!

Prov 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding.

Yes - we have a mind and yes, God gave us the ability to make choices. But no - we don't seek the Lord like we should. And no - we don't tend to know what is going on around us in the spiritual realm like we should. And so it is that demons influence us.

Consider - how good are you really about having your mind actually control your choices? If so good, then why is so much money spent on advertisement? If you mind was really soo great at controlling our own actions they all those ads would really need to be is facts as to where we can get the products, but as is it great work goes into how to influence us to make a choice for their product. And do you think evil spirit don't understand how all that works.

There is a book called "Screwtape letters" written by C.S. Lewis. It is a Christian but and is a fiction book, but the general theme should make sense to us. In it there is a demon whose job it is to get a man to turn away from Jesus Christ. That demon writes letter to another older and wiser demon for get advice about how to do that. Of course it is not done exactly like that, but the fact also is that evil spirit influence us and our thinking.

Did we not read where Peter said something and Jesus turned to Peter and said "Satan get behind me". Satan had clearly influenced that speech and thus actions of Peter through his mind which controlled Peter's mouth. Peter didn't understand what we going on, but Jesus did. Why do we then think, after reading the Bible, that by leaning on our understanding we are going to do the right thing?

The fact is that we hear with our spirit whether we know it or not. Paul said he took all thoughts captive to Jesus Christ. So who tells use to use our mind because it always controls our actions. That is not telling us to seek Jesus Christ and listen to Him! That is not saying Jesus Christ is Lord, but it sound a lot like that snake who said "you will be like God, knowing good and evil.' Have we not read that when Satan speaks he speaks a lie." If you want discernment of spirit, seek the Lord. Take those thoughts in your mind captive to Jesus Christ!

 

[Hopeful]

Did you miss the part about how we are not judged and have already passed through it?

Jn 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Your version of the KJV bible has again led you astray.
The words you cite were skewed.
Here is John 5:24, KJV..."Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
Your version changed "condemnation" to "judgement".
That change allows doubt of Peter's words in 1 Peter 4:17..."For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"
There is an inescapable judgement coming for all men.

 

[K2CHRIST]

Your version of the KJV bible has again led you astray.
The words you cite were skewed.
Here is John 5:24, KJV..."Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
Your version changed "condemnation" to "judgement".
That change allows doubt of Peter's words in 1 Peter 4:17..."For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"
There is an inescapable judgement coming for all men.

I love the verses - but how did you miss "hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

You apparently missed "hath' that Old English word that we don't use anymore!!!

It means has - We are not talking about something in the future!! You also had trouble with Paul writing "doing" and thinking that it was something Paul had done

And look at the second verse you quoted!

"For the time is come"

Note: It does not say the time will come, but is come!!

That goes with the word "Today" which is the day we need to hear His voice

So the problem with you misinterpreting the Bible seems to be a problem of when things are coming about!

If the time has come and is come - Today is the day to hear His voice and if you hear His voice "Today" you the time is/has come that you no longer come into judgement/"condemnation"

One day I woke up and started hearing a spirit talking to me (if you have ears to hear it means you can hear in the spirit) and that spirit was using a string of what seemed logical but the conclusion of that logic was that God did not exist. HA - it was some demon - which I promptly got rid of. Then I sought the Lord Jesus Christ for comment on the event.

He started telling me about that snake of old in the garden. Specifically He talked to me about the characteristics of a snake. That is, a snake twists and wind around hoping to get it's prey in it's coils and in it's mouth.

Now spirits are spirits and not physical beings of any type. So a spirit that can be thought of as a snake is a spirit that twists the logic around to get you in his coils and in his mouth (spiritually speaking)!

It is a small twist to make "doing" to used to do - but is wrong

It is a small twist to make "is come" to "will come", or "has" to "will be" - but it is wrong.

This is why Paul wrote that he who wanted to do good found himself doing what he did not want and then concluded that if he was wanting to do good, then sin was the one dong what he did not want. Thus he found the principle that evil was present in him.

This is also why John wrote that anyone who didn't understand they had sin (present) then the truth was not in them and that they were deceiving themselves!

The truth is that evil spirits, those dark forces, are around and about and we can hear them with our spiritual ears, and those work inside us! So we have to use discernment, when using our spiritual ears!!!

But the person who thinks God has eliminated the evil spirits in this world we are in, or that He somehow has made it such that we no longer have to use discernment, is just deceiving themselves!

Saul - the "old man", that Pharisee, not seeing the "Light" thought he did everything right, because he studied the Bible and was zealous for God. Paul - the "new man" had the "Light" Jesus Christ showing him about how the dark spiritual forces of this world (called Sin) were active and about. Jesus Christ then, as the Light, made Paul (the new man) aware of the evil operating in his life and that so Paul would be able to choose Him, our Lord Jesus Christ.

They are called "dark" spiritual forces because they want you unaware of the spiritual things going on around you. Don't deceive yourself into thinking those things are not still going on around you. Seek the Lord Jesus Christ and He will light up the spiritual world around you! That will cause you to seek Him about what is going on!! It will cause you to seeking Him "Today"! You will hear from Him "Today" and so "Today" you will have passed our of condemnation/judgement and into life. The time is come, and that time then is called "Today"!! or perhaps To Day, if you lived and spoke English some hundred of years ago.

Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,


So as for which Bible to use - The Lord had me open and run a Christian bookstore for a couple of years and so I have some familiarity with Bible selection. I even have myself a copy of the 1611 King James Version. It is quite a novelty.

S Iohn V 24 Verily, verily I say vnto you, Hee that heareth my word, & beleeueth on him that sent mee, hath euerlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation : but is passed from death vnto life.

The above is from the 1611 KJV, which of course was the original. Isn't it interesting how language changes with time. I don't write that now, as can be seen. So the Bible like like is the NASB [New American Standard Bible]. It reads in "American" , which happens to me my language! It was, (at the time I had the christian bookstore) considered to be the most accurate word for word translation of any Bible, by Zondervan Publishers. They had put out a massive Bible catalog showing all the Bible available from all the various Christian Publishers at that time, along with lots of useful information to us Christian bookstore owners.

The Lockman Foundation published the NASB and they had gone back and did an extensive study using all the available references of the time, and so was not just a translation of a translation, which indeed even the KJV was. Back in 1611 the KJV was a translation of the Latin version. Our scholars of today have much more to consider. You might enjoy a bit of research about how our Bible came to be. The KJV today is not the original KJV. The original KJV was a translation from the Latin Vulgate, is my understanding. The Latic Vulgate was a translation made by Jerome about 450 AD - but I am going by memory so you will want to double check all that.

The point is that if you are talking to the Lord "Today" and listening to what He has to say to you, then you are not judged or condemned by Him. He doesn't consider the actions you make as "Sin"!! You are "reckon" as righteous in His eyes! Yet He does make you aware of sin in your life - meaning He shows you what those evil spirits of darkness are doing about you and how they are messing you up! However if you think they are not doing that, and that sin (those evil dark forces which are called "dark" because they don't want you knowing what they are doing) then you are just deceiving yourself. And unlike the Lord, you are going to wind up judging other people - like the person struggling with a sexual desire for other people of the same sex.

That person is more likely to understand their problem and struggle than the Pharisee like Saul, who did not think he was sinning

 

[Hopeful]

I love the verses - but how did you miss "hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

You apparently missed "hath' that Old English word that we don't use anymore!!!

It means has - We are not talking about something in the future!! You also had trouble with Paul writing "doing" and thinking that it was something Paul had done

The point I made was that your version of a bible changed the word judgement to condemnation.
All will be judged, starting at the house of the Lord. (1 Peter 4:17)

 

[K2CHRIST]

The point I made was that your version of a bible changed the word judgement to condemnation.
All will be judged, starting at the house of the Lord. (1 Peter 4:17)

Why do you think your version of the bible is right - and isn't it just a case of arguing over semantics?

Tim 6:4 he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions,

Look - I was talking to the Lord about that concern - He was telling me He actually like "condemnation" then said "but..."

and explained that there are different types of judgement. For example a father might judge his son but he doesn't condemn them. So the specific judgement we are talking about in the verse is a judgement to condemn, not just any type of judgement. So if you are hearing from Him you have passed out of any judgement that condemns you - and isn't that what you were talking about?

He also mentioned a few other things interesting. Remember that lady accused of adultery.

Jhn 8:3:4 The scribes and the Pharisees *brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, they *said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act.

So what is happening in this conversation? Was it not started with a discussion about those having a desire for others of the same sex. So should we stone them?????

Jesus told them: “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”

He pointed out to me, that even those scribes and Pharisees didn't think to start throwing a stone at her - Then He asked - So what about the person thinking that they have the Holy Spirit so they have no sin? They would have stoned the lady even if those words would have been said. So He asked "Who was right after listening to Me?"

Then He brought up the time His disciples while walking with Him were thinking about calling fire down from heaven.

Luke 9:54 When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?”

Too often His disciples start thinking it is they who need to take judgement into their own hands. Why does that happen?

Luke 9:55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what kind of spirit you are of;

I am telling you that He who I hear from sound like Him who spoke to those scribes and Pharisees who brought forth lady to be stoned, and Him who spoke to His disciples who wanted to bring down fire and consume them. If you listen to Him we are going to be much more understanding and none judgmental of people!!

We are not the One without sin!! Let Him do the judging, or condemning if you prefer, and be nice to people coming to the church and struggling with problems! You and I have our problems, and if you want to know what they are we need to talk to Him and listen!!!

 

[Hopeful]

Why do you think your version of the bible is right - and isn't it just a case of arguing over semantics?

In the case of 1 Peter 4:17, the change your version makes leads the faithful to lose sight of the fact that a judgement is coming.
That is devilishness at its worst.

Tim 6:4 he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions,

Look - I was talking to the Lord about that concern - He was telling me He actually like "condemnation" then said "but..."

and explained that there are different types of judgement. For example a father might judge his son but he doesn't condemn them. So the specific judgement we are talking about in the verse is a judgement to condemn, not just any type of judgement. So if you are hearing from Him you have passed out of any judgement that condemns you - and isn't that what you were talking about?

He also mentioned a few other things interesting. Remember that lady accused of adultery.

Jhn 8:3:4 The scribes and the Pharisees *brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, they *said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act.

So what is happening in this conversation? Was it not started with a discussion about those having a desire for others of the same sex. So should we stone them?????

Jesus told them: “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”

He pointed out to me, that even those scribes and Pharisees didn't think to start throwing a stone at her - Then He asked - So what about the person thinking that they have the Holy Spirit so they have no sin? They would have stoned the lady even if those words would have been said. So He asked "Who was right after listening to Me?"

Then He brought up the time His disciples while walking with Him were thinking about calling fire down from heaven.

Luke 9:54 When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?”

Too often His disciples start thinking it is they who need to take judgement into their own hands. Why does that happen?

Luke 9:55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what kind of spirit you are of;

I am telling you that He who I hear from sound like Him who spoke to those scribes and Pharisees who brought forth lady to be stoned, and Him who spoke to His disciples who wanted to bring down fire and consume them. If you listen to Him we are going to be much more understanding and none judgmental of people!!

We are not the One without sin!! Let Him do the judging, or condemning if you prefer, and be nice to people coming to the church and struggling with problems! You and I have our problems, and if you want to know what they are we need to talk to Him and listen!!!

 

[K2CHRIST]

In the case of 1 Peter 4:17, the change your version makes leads the faithful to lose sight of the fact that a judgement is coming.
That is devilishness at its worst.

What makes you possibly think your version of the Bible is the correct version???

Have you done any study into the different versions of the Bible over time - I mean any - Did you use any logic before you wrote.

Do you even know that the KVJ that you go by is not the KJV??? It was written in 1611 - which was about what - 1500 years after the last of the Scriptures were written and not a one of them was written in OLD ENGLISH

Do you ever even talk the the Lord?

He said through Isaiah - to come reason with Him - so guess what - He is reasonable.

Go ahead and tell yourself you have no sin - that was you can throw stones at those coming to church like Saul - the Old man did. Or perhaps you don't understand that the Law came on 2 stones - and that is what you throw at people - or should I say your understanding of the Law. And when you read where Jesus was quoted in the Bible 'that let the one without sin throw the first stone' - you think that is you.

You need to go and reason with the Lord - but you won't do that if you think you have everything correct because you can not sin.

Your "version" is not "The version"!! That is just silly. Again 'Your version" is not even the original King James Version! Do you even understand that?

Still it is written that if you go and reason with Him your sins will be as white as snow.

Is 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the LORD, “Though your sins are as scarlet,
They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.

So the "worst" is not reasoning with the Lord, hearing His voice and getting His understanding. Is that not why you wrote that "your mind" should control your actions so you don't sin? You don't even understand that you need to let His mind control your actions!!

Oh - I don't take everything to the Lord - but I did take the Judgement vs Condemnation to the Lord. They mean the same thing as written! Which is to say there is a judgment that produces Condemnation - and that is the "Judgment" used in the verse in question - but you go back to arguing over words - which is not of God!!

 

[Hopeful]

What makes you possibly think your version of the Bible is the correct version???

The KJV of the bible makes it clear we can live without sinning.
Other versions equivocate on the matter.

Have you done any study into the different versions of the Bible over time - I mean any - Did you use any logic before you wrote.

Yes, I have.

Do you even know that the KVJ that you go by is not the KJV??? It was written in 1611 - which was about what - 1500 years after the last of the Scriptures were written and not a one of them was written in OLD ENGLISH

Now apply that reasoning to the versions printed in the 1900s.
Which is closer to the original manuscript's time of publishing?

Do you ever even talk the the Lord?

All the time, everyday.

 

[jerry63935]

I see, you use progressive sanctification as a substitute word for growing in grace and knowledge.
To me, we are set apart, made holy, consecrated, atoned for, and cleansed, or we are not.
Those are words defining sanctification.

if you would read more close you would see i posted WE ARE SANCTFIED the moment we are saved. but not to full potential/ we are a wip = growing in the grace and knowledge ..why do you think we should grow?

 

[K2CHRIST]

The KJV of the bible makes it clear we can live without sinning.
Other versions equivocate on the matter.

Yes, I have.

Now apply that reasoning to the versions printed in the 1900s.
Which is closer to the original manuscript's time of publishing?

All the time, everyday.

This is a discussion about what Bible to use, and does not relate to the OP topic - I will however open another thread about the Bibles available to Christians and how we got them.

I don't find too many KJV people around anymore - but they used to be numerous, and they never made much sense in their logic. The best argument for a KJV approach is that it would help prevent arguments over words - which as I put in the last post - is against that the Scriptures say. - and is exactly what you are now arguing.

If like like "Condemnation" as opposed to "Judgement" that is fine with me. They mean the same thing in the context - or do you not know that when a Judge in a court room judges you He condemn you???? So the Judgement of guilty and the condemnation are the exact same thing!! Yet you are wanting to argue that.

In truth, I find it quite funny, because you came across writing "your Bible" to me. It got me laughing at it, since the Lord had me open and run a Christian bookstore and he since has me finding and selling used books on-line for a living, I have over 25,000 books and I can't even tell you how many Bible I even keep for my own personal use. Frankly, I do have a Bible I normally use and a version that from my experience is the best version for my normal use but as I already showed you, I even have a 1611 King James Version from Hendrickson Pub, which is not the King James Version you are talking about. I also have a small Bible from the 1800's that appears to be a King James Version but is not the King James Version you are talking about. You don't even seem to understand that the King James Version you are so into has been changing over the years. We even have a "New King James" version that is not that 'new' either. The fact is that language changes with time and so has the Bible, and it's been a couple of thousand years since the Lord was in the flesh on earth and not too many years after that the Scriptures stopped being written.

Simply put - your concept of a one true Bible is just silly - and if there was it certainly would not be "Your" Bible. The Catholic's have a much better argument that it is the Vulgate - Jerome's Bible, in Latin. At least that is closer to the times of the writings of the New Testament. Yet I am certain the Greek Orthodox would disagree. The east and west Christian churches were not getting along too well about that time - which was about 400 AD. And the Christian Coptic church in the area of Egypt probably had their own opinions. The King James Version, as mentioned, didn't come around until 1611, and you might be a bit disappointed to find that it did not even have the same number of books in it as yours does. It was a translation of the Vulgate, from what I have read, some the original KJV has the same number of books as does the NAB - the New American Version - which is a Catholic Version and not to be confused with the NASB, which is the New American Standard Version, which I like. But since it is called the "New" American Standard Bible, there was another American Standard Bible then? Yes - it was a popular version of it's time from what I can tell. Yet apparently there were people like you back in the early 1900's who strongly opposed the ASB Bible proclaiming that "their" KJV version was the correct translation. I am not sure how people from other countries would feel about all that, probably a lot like they feel about our arguing over politics today. They must think it silly, because they had Bibles in their own language, and that includes the English! It does not seem that they are so fix on the KJV which they started. I enjoy reading my copy of the ESV - English Standard Version - at times. Are you going to say "Oh that is 'your' Bible"? It's just silly - which brings me to my actual reason for writing all this on this thread:

The point I am making is that: Our self righteousness causes us to not seek our Lord Jesus Christ!!!

Our silly thinking that we and our thinking leads to righteousness is just ridiculous! His sheep can hear His voice and they need to! As high as the heavens are above the earth, so are His thoughts above our thoughts. And clearly if we were indeed looking down from heaven, like He does, we could not think our KVJ Bible is the one and only Bible because the earth is made up of people of many nations. Have we not even heard about the International Bible Society who tries to make versions in all the languages of the world? Yet we enter into judgement,"Condemnation" if you prefer, of other people over just about anything and do not seek Him!

So it is that people come to our churches and we "condemn" them based on the thoughts of our mind, and tell others that 'our mind" can produces righteous actions.

It is just silly to think that way and to claim you know Jesus Christ at the same time! If you know Him, you will talk to Him and listen to what He your Lord tells you. He makes sense when you don't!!

 

[Hopeful]

if you would read more close you would see i posted WE ARE SANCTFIED the moment we are saved. but not to full potential/ we are a wip = growing in the grace and knowledge ..why do you think we should grow?

The sanctified should grow in grace and knowledge so we can reach more people with the correct answers to their questions.

 

[Hopeful]

This is a discussion about what Bible to use, and does not relate to the OP topic - I will however open another thread about the Bibles available to Christians and how we got them.

I don't find too many KJV people around anymore - but they used to be numerous, and they never made much sense in their logic. The best argument for a KJV approach is that it would help prevent arguments over words - which as I put in the last post - is against that the Scriptures say. - and is exactly what you are now arguing.

If like like "Condemnation" as opposed to "Judgement" that is fine with me. They mean the same thing in the context - or do you not know that when a Judge in a court room judges you He condemn you???? So the Judgement of guilty and the condemnation are the exact same thing!! Yet you are wanting to argue that.

In truth, I find it quite funny, because you came across writing "your Bible" to me. It got me laughing at it, since the Lord had me open and run a Christian bookstore and he since has me finding and selling used books on-line for a living, I have over 25,000 books and I can't even tell you how many Bible I even keep for my own personal use. Frankly, I do have a Bible I normally use and a version that from my experience is the best version for my normal use but as I already showed you, I even have a 1611 King James Version from Hendrickson Pub, which is not the King James Version you are talking about. I also have a small Bible from the 1800's that appears to be a King James Version but is not the King James Version you are talking about. You don't even seem to understand that the King James Version you are so into has been changing over the years. We even have a "New King James" version that is not that 'new' either. The fact is that language changes with time and so has the Bible, and it's been a couple of thousand years since the Lord was in the flesh on earth and not too many years after that the Scriptures stopped being written.

Simply put - your concept of a one true Bible is just silly - and if there was it certainly would not be "Your" Bible. The Catholic's have a much better argument that it is the Vulgate - Jerome's Bible, in Latin. At least that is closer to the times of the writings of the New Testament. Yet I am certain the Greek Orthodox would disagree. The east and west Christian churches were not getting along too well about that time - which was about 400 AD. And the Christian Coptic church in the area of Egypt probably had their own opinions. The King James Version, as mentioned, didn't come around until 1611, and you might be a bit disappointed to find that it did not even have the same number of books in it as yours does. It was a translation of the Vulgate, from what I have read, some the original KJV has the same number of books as does the NAB - the New American Version - which is a Catholic Version and not to be confused with the NASB, which is the New American Standard Version, which I like. But since it is called the "New" American Standard Bible, there was another American Standard Bible then? Yes - it was a popular version of it's time from what I can tell. Yet apparently there were people like you back in the early 1900's who strongly opposed the ASB Bible proclaiming that "their" KJV version was the correct translation. I am not sure how people from other countries would feel about all that, probably a lot like they feel about our arguing over politics today. They must think it silly, because they had Bibles in their own language, and that includes the English! It does not seem that they are so fix on the KJV which they started. I enjoy reading my copy of the ESV - English Standard Version - at times. Are you going to say "Oh that is 'your' Bible"? It's just silly - which brings me to my actual reason for writing all this on this thread:

The point I am making is that: Our self righteousness causes us to not seek our Lord Jesus Christ!!!

Our silly thinking that we and our thinking leads to righteousness is just ridiculous! His sheep can hear His voice and they need to! As high as the heavens are above the earth, so are His thoughts above our thoughts. And clearly if we were indeed looking down from heaven, like He does, we could not think our KVJ Bible is the one and only Bible because the earth is made up of people of many nations. Have we not even heard about the International Bible Society who tries to make versions in all the languages of the world? Yet we enter into judgement,"Condemnation" if you prefer, of other people over just about anything and do not seek Him!

So it is that people come to our churches and we "condemn" them based on the thoughts of our mind, and tell others that 'our mind" can produces righteous actions.

It is just silly to think that way and to claim you know Jesus Christ at the same time! If you know Him, you will talk to Him and listen to what He your Lord tells you. He makes sense when you don't!!

Judgement doesn't always end up with condemnation.
By inferring condemnation at every judgement, you preclude the work of the Savior so that we can be judged as righteous.

 

[GodsGrace]

Sure...
John is addressing the church about two very different walks, and the two very different men who walk in them.
The two ways are in darkness or in the light.
Verses 6, 8, and 10 pertain to those walking in darkness and verses 5, 7, and 9 pertain to those who walk in the light.
Verse 8 says that if we say we have no sin...etc, but verse 7 says we can be washed of ALL sin by the blood of Christ.
They obviously refer to different sets of men, as neither applies to both those walking in darkness (which is sin) and those walking in the light (which is God).
There is no sin in God, who is light.

Hi Hopeful,
Nice to hear from you.
You say that John is addressing two different types of persons, those walking in the darkness and those walking in light.
In verses 6, 8 and 10 you say John is addressing those walking in the dark
Verses 5, 7 and 9 pertain to those walking in the light.

In every instance John uses the pronoun WE.
He also states in 1 John 2.12 that he is writing to "YOU, LITTLE CHILDREN".
He states that SINS are forgiven...sins pertains to when we sin.

Are you saying that a Christian cannot sin?
I'm not sure what you mean by "there is no sin in God, Who is light". (which you state above.)

John writes to fellow Christians and says plainly that their sins can be forgiven.
He tells us in John 20:23 that our sins will be forgiven.

It seems to me that we are capable of sin and are also forgiven when are sorry and ask forgiveness.
Do you agree?

 

[jerry63935]

The sanctified should grow in grace and knowledge so we can reach more people with the correct answers to their questions.

your just about to get it keep going but there is more to Growth than us answering questions . we grow in his Grace His Knowledge so we can learn to live to Holy sanctified life . which will only be accomplished till he make it home. until then our Growth in Holiness .continues on is Not a one time thing . positional sanctification Ephesians 2::5 Colossians 1:13
Progressive sanctification ( WIP ) romans 6:11 & 17-18 2ND corinthians 3:18 which is our growth stage every one has a different level in different fields
Ultimate sanctification Ephesians 1:13–14

 

[Hopeful]

Hi Hopeful,
Nice to hear from you.
You say that John is addressing two different types of persons, those walking in the darkness and those walking in light.
In verses 6, 8 and 10 you say John is addressing those walking in the dark
Verses 5, 7 and 9 pertain to those walking in the light.

In every instance John uses the pronoun WE.
He also states in 1 John 2.12 that he is writing to "YOU, LITTLE CHILDREN".
He states that SINS are forgiven...sins pertains to when we sin.

John also uses the word "IF".

Are you saying that a Christian cannot sin?
I'm not sure what you mean by "there is no sin in God, Who is light". (which you state above.)

I am indeed saying those in Christ cannot sin, as 1 John 3:9 also says.

John writes to fellow Christians and says plainly that their sins can be forgiven.
He tells us in John 20:23 that our sins will be forgiven.
It seems to me that we are capable of sin and are also forgiven when are sorry and ask forgiveness.
Do you agree?

Capable of sin...yes, but as our rebirth from Godly seed prevents us from bringing forth the fruit of the devil, it will never happen.
Further sin negates both our repentance from sin and our rebirth.
Keep walking in the light!

 

[Hopeful]

your just about to get it keep going but there is more to Growth than us answering questions . we grow in his Grace His Knowledge so we can learn to live to Holy sanctified life . which will only be accomplished till he make it home. until then our Growth in Holiness .continues on is Not a one time thing . positional sanctification Ephesians 2::5 Colossians 1:13
Progressive sanctification ( WIP ) romans 6:11 & 17-18 2ND corinthians 3:18 which is our growth stage every one has a different level in different fields
Ultimate sanctification Ephesians 1:13–14

Once atoned for, consecrated, set apart, blessed, and made holy, how can we be re-atoned for, re-consecrated, re-set apart, re-made holy?
One is either sanctified or they are unclean, polluted, and impure.

 

[K2CHRIST]

Judgement doesn't always end up with condemnation.
By inferring condemnation at every judgement, you preclude the work of the Savior so that we can be judged as righteous.

Do you not still see the problem with your understanding of when things are happening?

You wrote "so that we can be judged as righteous" but it is not "can be" because we already are counted as righteous because we believe. Our sins are forgiven and He said He would remember them no more - and that we have passed out of judgement/ condemnation. So that type of judgement, the type that might condemn us to hell as opposed to heaven takes places when we start listening to Him!!!

Read the verse you quoted - even in "your" KJV - 1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Note: It does not say "we can be judged" it say the time "is come". It is not a future event but a present event. We are either believing in Him now, Today, or not. If "Today", and "Today" is the time that is come, you hear His voice and the words He has to speak to you, then you have passed out of Judgement/condemnation (which every you prefer) so it is not "we can be" but rather' we are now' either pass out of condemnation/judgement because we believe or we have not.

I already went of this carefully with you but you still write about some thing in the future instead of Today

I love the verses - but how did you miss "hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

You apparently missed "hath' that Old English word that we don't use anymore!!!

It means has - We are not talking about something in the future!! You also had trouble with Paul writing "doing" and thinking that it was something Paul had done

And look at the second verse you quoted!

"For the time is come"

Note: It does not say the time will come, but is come!!

You need to consider why you keep thinking what the Bible say "is come" is something that will come later. We should know in our spirit that the Holy Spirit has come and with forgiveness of sins, and without condemnation but life!! If we don't understand that in our spirit, do we perhaps need to seek the Lord Jesus Christ and what He has to say to us via His Holy Spirit?