Be Perfect - A question

[GodspromisesRyes]

hi Godspromiseryes
Yes, those are some of the versus that I have been questioning and wondering why churches don't teach this, yet we are taught we are still sinners and always will be. Yet I do sin, hate it and try to do better and remember and have faith that He is in me and through Him I can do all things. If I could get a grasp on really believing what the Word says about this and perhaps undoing some things that were taught to me, it would make a difference for me.

I agree with you about scholars, they have so many differing opinions and ideas - so who is right. I find myself spending more time in the Word then listening to any one of the scholars, yet we are to "hear the Word".

i agree, i think the problem is that many have made themselves teachers of the word and preachers who God never called to be so, and so they are a product of their own will that then went and was taught in " bible college" what to teach so that men could officially say they were " ordained" when those this is not what the bible shows, so pretty much many are hirlings not real shepards.

I believe that there are some very good teachers, pastors ect who preach truth, who preach holiness and repentance and living clean and holy before God IN FAITH.

There are a couple i know who you can watch or hear online but besides that I dont know of many that seem to believe the word AND live it at the same time. I dont think sometimes we realize how what we have believed doctrine wise effects our faith and conscious before God all the time. For example, if we do not believe a person overcome sin through CHrist Jesus, then we do not have faith to overcome when those temptations come, we dont have faith in HIS strength in us to do it, we then cannot have a clean conscious towards God because we are in unbelief AND other sins. This is a very powerless gospel many have come to believe, but it does one thing- it makes the flesh comfortable so it can sin and just say " well we are just human(which is a lie by the way, we are NOT JUST HUMAN)" and it makes it so they have no need to die to self and take up their cross crucifying the flesh with the lusts thereof.

 

[glorydaz]

Darcy,

Jesus also says "anything is possible with God's help". If we strive to be obedient to Jesus, the Holy Spirit will help us to be perfect.

.

Like you are, right?

Did you know constantly judging others will come back to you every single time?
Think on that one a bit.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Now say again....

 

[glorydaz]

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

I bring this up again, because it's very important to understand that the perfection that is spoken of is a result of the cleansing power of the blood of Christ who lives in us. There is, indeed, a reason why the preachers speak of sin in us. It's because there has never been a perfect man, except Jesus. Because He lives in us, we are perfect. We take on His righteousness, we have none in our own selves. One of the biggest traps a believer can fall into is thinking he should be perfect. We set ourselves up for a fall. Satan can come in and accuse..."See, I told you couldn't do it."

I had a good friend tell me one time, "You can't stop the birds from flying through the air, but you can stop them from building a nest in your hair." We have the Holy Spirit leading us toward perfection...we're to press for the mark, no doubt about that. But, to put yourself under the bondage of perfection is a yoke our Lord never asks us to bear. Only those who don't have the mind of Christ would make it an excuse to sin.

I've been walking with the Lord for 40 years, and I can attest to the danger that comes from striving so hard to be perfect that you come under condemnation. We're to rest...His yoke is easy, and His burden light. It's a joy to please our savior and it gets easier with each passing day. As long as we abide in Him, we don't have to worry about finishing the race. Read Peter...he speaks so well of the saving power of the blood. In his first epistle, he shows six ways in which God causes every Christian to overcome... by regenerating them to a living hope, by keeping them through His power, by strengthening them through tests of faith, by preserving them for ultimate glory, by motivating them with love for the Savior, and by saving them through a working faith. It's His perfection shining through us.

 

[Cornelius]

But, to put yourself under the bondage of perfection is a yoke our Lord never asks us to bear.

Mat 5:48 Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[Cornelius]

When confronted with a seemingly impossible truth like this (Perfection) we must know that first: The Bible is true and God does not lie. Secondly: For man indeed this is impossible, so this is speaking of something that God must do .

He did it at the cross. He perfected all those who are being perfected.

First we walk in this truth by FAITH. But this faith is not a faith that moves this perfection into heaven. No this faith is a faith that moves this perfection into this life, because indeed God is able. Paul cries out "Oh retched man that I am, who will save me ? " and then gives us the answer: Jesus Christ.

Where we are definitely unable, He IS ABLE.

Now watch as Peter tells us that we HAVE already RECEIVED all we need for life and godliness. This includes perfection.2Pe 1:3 seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue;

Its done already. But now we who believe it, must also walk it.

blessings
C

 

[DarcyLu]

I bring this up again, because it's very important to understand that the perfection that is spoken of is a result of the cleansing power of the blood of Christ who lives in us. There is, indeed, a reason why the preachers speak of sin in us. It's because there has never been a perfect man, except Jesus. Because He lives in us, we are perfect. We take on His righteousness, we have none in our own selves. One of the biggest traps a believer can fall into is thinking he should be perfect. We set ourselves up for a fall. Satan can come in and accuse..."See, I told you couldn't do it."

I've been walking with the Lord for 40 years, and I can attest to the danger that comes from striving so hard to be perfect that you come under condemnation. We're to rest...His yoke is easy, and His burden light. It's a joy to please our savior and it gets easier with each passing day. As long as we abide in Him, we don't have to worry about finishing the race. Read Peter...he speaks so well of the saving power of the blood. In his first epistle, he shows six ways in which God causes every Christian to overcome... by regenerating them to a living hope, by keeping them through His power, by strengthening them through tests of faith, by preserving them for ultimate glory, by motivating them with love for the Savior, and by saving them through a working faith. It's His perfection shining through us.

This is where my confusion comes into play, would you say God already sees us as we will be, He sees us as perfect because of the blood of Christ? Also, when the Word says to be Holy, would you say God already sees us as Holy?
Thanks.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

C amen

I think that what makes these scriptures hard to see in the light of truth sometimes is that we tend to look at ourselves from our own perspective. That is we look at it personally. We see our own sin and faults and flesh and then we say " well that will not happen ". It is when we look past ourselves to what God says that we can see His plan.- According to the word we are to account ourselves as DEAD- and that it is CHRIST who lives in us.- IS Christ perfect? YES! IF we continue to walk by faith day by day AND count ourselves as dead, crucifying the flesh and being led by the Spirit then who we are and what we do, will be CHRIST in us who is perfect.THis is of course a process of maturing and dying daily. But we are told that it was Gods plan which he forordained for us to be conformed into the image of His Son- that is THE PERFECT MAN>. This is true of us individually AND as the whole body of Christ! how great is that!. Look how paul encourages us about this when he says:
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.


Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:


Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.


Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.


Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.


Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.


The bible says be ye perfect- It says that the apostles wanted to present us to the Lord as perfect- that we are being built up into the perfect man. Paul said " we speak wisdom amoung them that ARE PERFECT.
Peter said BE PERFECT.


Now we should not walk around high minded because we are to be dead- we also should not walk around condemned because we do not YET see that perfection in ourselves- but we should walk in faith that IF we be dead with christ we SHALL be like him.Because day by day we should be decreasing so that CHrist in us can increase, we can walk in faith that more and more it will be HIM trhat is seen and speaking and walking and no more ourselves.

 

[DarcyLu]

When confronted with a seemingly impossible truth like this (Perfection) we must know that first: The Bible is true and God does not lie. Secondly: For man indeed this is impossible, so this is speaking of something that God must do .

He did it at the cross. He perfected all those who are being perfected.

First we walk in this truth by FAITH. But this faith is not a faith that moves this perfection into heaven. No this faith is a faith that moves this perfection into this life, because indeed God is able. Paul cries out "Oh retched man that I am, who will save me ? " and then gives us the answer: Jesus Christ.

Where we are definitely unable, He IS ABLE.

Now watch as Peter tells us that we HAVE already RECEIVED all we need for life and godliness. This includes perfection.2Pe 1:3 seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue;

Its done already. But now we who believe it, must also walk it.

blessings
C

I didn't read this until after I posted to glorydaz and this is along the same line as I asked him - God already sees us as perfect, so we are to believe we are already perfected and live it out? It is not I, but He who lives in me, who is doing it - correct.
Yet, I have not met anyone who has been perfected and it seems if we believe this that we are putting ourselves on the same level as Christ and is that ok???

 

[DarcyLu]

hi Godspromiseryes
Yes, those are some of the versus that I have been questioning and wondering why churches don't teach this, yet we are taught we are still sinners and always will be. Yet I do sin, hate it and try to do better and remember and have faith that He is in me and through Him I can do all things. If I could get a grasp on really believing what the Word says about this and perhaps undoing some things that were taught to me, it would make a difference for me.

I agree with you about scholars, they have so many differing opinions and ideas - so who is right. I find myself spending more time in the Word then listening to any one of the scholars, yet we are to "hear the Word".

i agree, i think the problem is that many have made themselves teachers of the word and preachers who God never called to be so, and so they are a product of their own will that then went and was taught in " bible college" what to teach so that men could officially say they were " ordained" when those this is not what the bible shows, so pretty much many are hirlings not real shepards.

I believe that there are some very good teachers, pastors ect who preach truth, who preach holiness and repentance and living clean and holy before God IN FAITH.

There are a couple i know who you can watch or hear online but besides that I dont know of many that seem to believe the word AND live it at the same time. I dont think sometimes we realize how what we have believed doctrine wise effects our faith and conscious before God all the time. For example, if we do not believe a person overcome sin through CHrist Jesus, then we do not have faith to overcome when those temptations come, we dont have faith in HIS strength in us to do it, we then cannot have a clean conscious towards God because we are in unbelief AND other sins. This is a very powerless gospel many have come to believe, but it does one thing- it makes the flesh comfortable so it can sin and just say " well we are just human(which is a lie by the way, we are NOT JUST HUMAN)" and it makes it so they have no need to die to self and take up their cross crucifying the flesh with the lusts thereof.

Who do you listen to?

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

umm, I will post two web site here of people i listen to who you can hear online. One is my pastor where i live he is a dear and faithful brother, the other is a brother that lives far from me but is a precious and faithful brother who has taught me much but also been there for me for councel and prayer.

http://harrismemorial.blip.tv/

(on the right side is the choices of other sermons, they just switched sights so there is only a couple but they are adding them)

http://www.unleavenedbreadministries.org/

this one is a whole web page, you can scroll down and see the choices on the left hand side, there is areas for written teachings etc,, plus for audio and videos. or you can search by subject of what you would like to hear.

 

[DarcyLu]

Thanks.
I will check them out.

 

[elijah23]

BTW - Hawkeyes rock, but the Cyclones are better. :D

My dad and mother were University of Iowa graduates and instilled in the family the firm belief that the Iowa Hawkeyes reigned over all the land, especially Dad. (However, I pull for all the Iowa schools, having been raised in Iowa, and the University of Nevada, since I now live in Reno.)

 

[DarcyLu]

BTW - Hawkeyes rock, but the Cyclones are better. :D

My dad and mother were University of Iowa graduates and instilled in the family the firm belief that the Iowa Hawkeyes reigned over all the land, especially Dad. (However, I pull for all the Iowa schools, having been raised in Iowa, and the University of Nevada, since I now live in Reno.)

I knew they had to be rivals, so had to give you some grief about it. I'm in TX so Longhorns all the way!

 

[DarcyLu]

When confronted with a seemingly impossible truth like this (Perfection) we must know that first: The Bible is true and God does not lie. Secondly: For man indeed this is impossible, so this is speaking of something that God must do .

He did it at the cross. He perfected all those who are being perfected.

First we walk in this truth by FAITH. But this faith is not a faith that moves this perfection into heaven. No this faith is a faith that moves this perfection into this life, because indeed God is able. Paul cries out "Oh retched man that I am, who will save me ? " and then gives us the answer: Jesus Christ.

Where we are definitely unable, He IS ABLE.

Now watch as Peter tells us that we HAVE already RECEIVED all we need for life and godliness. This includes perfection.2Pe 1:3 seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue;

Its done already. But now we who believe it, must also walk it.

blessings
C

by golly, it's taken me all day long and correct me if my take is misconstruing your beliefs, we are already perfected in Christ by His blood, yet the manifestation has not been revealed in us, we are to believe it and walk in this faith and one day, this faith in perfection will be manifested. correct?

 

[DarcyLu]

umm, I will post two web site here of people i listen to who you can hear online. One is my pastor where i live he is a dear and faithful brother, the other is a brother that lives far from me but is a precious and faithful brother who has taught me much but also been there for me for councel and prayer.

http://harrismemorial.blip.tv/

(on the right side is the choices of other sermons, they just switched sights so there is only a couple but they are adding them)

http://www.unleavenedbreadministries.org/

this one is a whole web page, you can scroll down and see the choices on the left hand side, there is areas for written teachings etc,, plus for audio and videos. or you can search by subject of what you would like to hear.

I didn't read the entire 2nd link yet, lol it's large, yet when I saw the "america's last days", and not sure if it was intended to be intimidating or frightening, my belief is God will be faithful in keeping us no matter what comes to america or any other country. If we abide in Him He will take us out of harm and/or danger and if not He will be with us and keep us, and whatever else happens is for the glory of Him. america's last days or not or even my own last days, there is no need to fear if He is with us.

 

[shad]

Did you know constantly judging others will come back to you every single time?
Think on that one a bit.

When and how did I judge, glory? You keep accuse me of judging without any evidence, and it is getting old. You seem to be holding a grudge on me.
Quote an example of me judging someone.

 

[jasoncran]

settle this via pm not in public please.

 

[glorydaz]

I bring this up again, because it's very important to understand that the perfection that is spoken of is a result of the cleansing power of the blood of Christ who lives in us. There is, indeed, a reason why the preachers speak of sin in us. It's because there has never been a perfect man, except Jesus. Because He lives in us, we are perfect. We take on His righteousness, we have none in our own selves. One of the biggest traps a believer can fall into is thinking he should be perfect. We set ourselves up for a fall. Satan can come in and accuse..."See, I told you couldn't do it."

I've been walking with the Lord for 40 years, and I can attest to the danger that comes from striving so hard to be perfect that you come under condemnation. We're to rest...His yoke is easy, and His burden light. It's a joy to please our savior and it gets easier with each passing day. As long as we abide in Him, we don't have to worry about finishing the race. Read Peter...he speaks so well of the saving power of the blood. In his first epistle, he shows six ways in which God causes every Christian to overcome... by regenerating them to a living hope, by keeping them through His power, by strengthening them through tests of faith, by preserving them for ultimate glory, by motivating them with love for the Savior, and by saving them through a working faith. It's His perfection shining through us.

This is where my confusion comes into play, would you say God already sees us as we will be, He sees us as perfect because of the blood of Christ? Also, when the Word says to be Holy, would you say God already sees us as Holy?
Thanks.

Yes, we're seated with Christ already in heavenly places.

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

We aren't "being perfected" as some claim...Notice He has perfected for ever those who are sanctified. When we're washed in the blood of the Lamb....we're washed for ever.

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

We have been chosen... called out of darkness...a holy nation.
Christ's righteousness has been imputed to us. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

 

[glorydaz]

I didn't read this until after I posted to glorydaz and this is along the same line as I asked him - God already sees us as perfect, so we are to believe we are already perfected and live it out? It is not I, but He who lives in me, who is doing it - correct.
Yet, I have not met anyone who has been perfected and it seems if we believe this that we are putting ourselves on the same level as Christ and is that ok???

Picture that little old saintly lady down the street.
She wouldn't so much as say darn. She loves the Lord and tells everyone of His saving grace.
She's always kind and giving, and everyone thinks no one could be more loving and giving.

But at night when she goes before the Lord, she cries our her sorrow at having not done something she knew she ought. She asks the Lord's forgiveness for not getting out to visit old Bob down the street. She knew the Lord was prompting her to go, but she was too busy baking cookies. That dear saint's heart is convicted of her sin.

The Lord reveals more of our sins the longer we walk with Him.
Are we perfect...in the eyes of the Lord, we are.
Is He conforming us to Him image? Yes, every minute of every day.
We aren't putting ourselves on the same level as Christ unless we don't know who He is.

Once we know Him, we realize our own best efforts are as filthy rags compared to His shining Glory.
John fell face down when He saw our risen Lord in Rev. 1.

The closer we get to Him, the more we are humbled...no way can we exhalt ourselves.

 

[Son of Israel]

My perfection is only from containing Jesus Christ in me, who is the only Perfect sinless one! I'm dead, but I live, though not I but Christ in me (Col 1:27)
:yes