Being Perfect

[Alabaster]

I’ve heard it said that in the days of Jesus, wine was the only safe thing to drink since the alcohol killed the germs.

Anyway, if you need wine, the Lord will give you wine.

I just doubt if anyone will need wine in the resurrection.

It will have nothing to do with need, but with the joy of celebrating the wedding of the Bride and the Bridegroom. Perfect wine will flow and there will be no intoxication.

 

[Deavonreye]

Wine is not hard liquor and no one needed to drink to intoxication.

I’ve heard it said that the alcohol content in wine in those days was low, and the purpose of the alcohol was to kill germs (purifty).

Oh, no I don't think so. You will have to provide evidence of this "low alcohol content" you speak of. And it was those at the banquet that were amazed that "the best" was brought out near the end. Regardless, any amount of alcohol brings a level of "intoxication", even if you don't feel it.

You can stay away from alcohol all you want, as you see fit, . . . but it isn't a sin to drink it . . . IN moderation, as with many things.

 

[elijah23]

It will have nothing to do with need, but with the joy of celebrating the wedding of the Bride and the Bridegroom. Perfect wine will flow and there will be no intoxication.

I see no connection between joy and wine.

 

[Deavonreye]

I see no connection between joy and wine.

Maybe you were doing it wrong!

Just kidding, . . . back to the topic.

 

[elijah23]

Oh, no I don't think so. You will have to provide evidence of this "low alcohol content" you speak of. And it was those at the banquet that were amazed that "the best" was brought out near the end. Regardless, any amount of alcohol brings a level of "intoxication", even if you don't feel it.

You can stay away from alcohol all you want, as you see fit, . . . but it isn't a sin to drink it . . . IN moderation, as with many things.

In moderation.

 

[Alabaster]

I see no connection between joy and wine.

God does.

Ecclesiastes 9:7 NLT
So go ahead. Eat your food with joy, and drink your wine with a happy heart, for God approves of this!

Jeremiah 31:12 NLT
They will come home and sing songs of joy on the heights of Jerusalem.
They will be radiant because of the Lord’s good gifts—
the abundant crops of grain, new wine, and olive oil,
and the healthy flocks and herds.
Their life will be like a watered garden,
and all their sorrows will be gone.

 

[elijah23]

God does.

Ecclesiastes 9:7 NLT
So go ahead. Eat your food with joy, and drink your wine with a happy heart, for God approves of this!

Jeremiah 31:12 NLT
They will come home and sing songs of joy on the heights of Jerusalem.
They will be radiant because of the Lord’s good gifts—
the abundant crops of grain, new wine, and olive oil,
and the healthy flocks and herds.
Their life will be like a watered garden,
and all their sorrows will be gone.

Ever since the Lord taught me how to work out my own salvation, as Paul puts it, I am joyous much of the time. If I were to have a glass of wine each time I felt joy, I’d be constantly drunk.

 

[Alabaster]

Ever since the Lord taught me how to work out my own salvation, as Paul puts it, I am joyous much of the time. If I were to have a glass of wine each time I felt joy, I’d be constantly drunk.

Where does it say anywhere that when we are joyous we need to imbibe?



By the way, joy is not a feeling. It is a spiritual fruit. We can be joyous even in mourning. In fact, sometimes when God blesses people with His joy, they do seem drunk.

 

[elijah23]

Where does it say anywhere that when we are joyous we need to imbibe?

I thought you said that in the resurrection we would need to drink wine because of the joy we’d feel.

 

[Alabaster]

I thought you said that in the resurrection we would need to drink wine because of the joy we’d feel.

Weddings are great occasions to celebrate. The Bride and Bridegroom experience joy together.

 

[gideon3213]

Here is some scriputures to think about.

Matt 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
KJV
Rev 3:2
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. KJV

John 8:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. NKJV

Rom 6
6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. KJV

Rom 8:4-8
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. KJV

Rom 8:12-13
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. KJV

Gal 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. KJV

Gal 5:24-25
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. KJV

1 John 3:2-10
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. KJV

According to these verses, it is entirely possible to live without committing sin! even more it is expected of us to discipline ourselves into obeying Gods morale laws. God will never command us to do something without giving us the ability to do it. And through the death burial and resurrction of Jesus Christ the power to live a sinless life has been made available.

have a great day

 

[Free]

God gives us a standard to live up to, to aim for, but that does not mean it is possible.

 

[gideon3213]

God gives us a standard to live up to, to aim for, but that does not mean it is possible.

Please read the scriptures that I quoted! They clearly say that is it possible and expected of us!

 

[elijah23]

God gives us a standard to live up to, to aim for, but that does not mean it is possible.

It is possible.

 

[Free]

Please read the scriptures that I quoted! They clearly say that is it possible and expected of us!

None of them say it is possible.

Do we really think we are better than Paul or the Apostles or any writer of the NT? None of them claim perfection, and none of them say it is possible.

 

[glorydaz]

There are three means of perfection spoken of in the Bible. One is positional perfection, that which we have in Christ Jesus. One is ultimate perfection, that which we will have when we've been glorified and are like Him. The other is experiential perfection, that which refers to our maturity and is not "sinless perfection". It's the sanctification process.

 

[watchman F]

Originally Posted by gideon3213
Please read the scriptures that I quoted! They clearly say that is it possible and expected of us!

None of them say it is possible.

Do we really think we are better than Paul or the Apostles or any writer of the NT? None of them claim perfection, and none of them say it is possible.

Free you are 100% wrong. We are capable of living sinlessly scripture clearly tells us we are able, and I believe Paul and the other Apostles did indeed reach that level of maturity.

Scriptures that say we are able to live sinlessly
Romans 8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit

1st Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil


Jude 24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless, Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy


Even though it is Christ that works through us, and we can do nothing in ourselves it is still us who must allow Him to work in us therefore partnering with Christ cleansing ourself from all unrightouesness
1st Corinthians 15
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

2nd Corinthians 2:14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Galtians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lust.

Philippians 2
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

1st John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
See even though it is Christ that works in us, but it is we who must remain stedfast, crucify our flesh, making manifest our Savior, working out our own salvation, purifying ourselves, cleansing ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God, making ourselves ready for our Bridegroom King.

 

[watchman F]

There are three means of perfection spoken of in the Bible. One is positional perfection, that which we have in Christ Jesus. One is ultimate perfection, that which we will have when we've been glorified and are like Him. The other is experiential perfection, that which refers to our maturity and is not "sinless perfection". It's the sanctification process.

I believe that if we are truly experiencing the new covenant, then we will have complete victory over sin. To be a full grown son, we must be made free. I believe Jesus has made us free, all we must do now is walk in our freedom. When people say that we are not to make sin a habit, but yet everyone sins, and will not be completely freed from sin until the resurrection. They do not truly believe (have faith in the fact) that the Son can make us free indeed.

We are given the promise of freedom from sin how do we begin to walk in that freedom? By knowing Christ and who we are in Him and to Him.
2nd Peter 1
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Free]

Free you are 100% wrong. We are capable of living sinlessly scripture clearly tells us we are able, and I believe Paul and the other Apostles did indeed reach that level of maturity.

You provided several passages of Scripture but not one of them says that Paul or any of the other Apostles reached that level of maturity. In fact, if one looks, Paul says he hasn't. And John says if anyone says they are without sin, they are lying.

So let's be careful when telling someone they are 100% wrong.

 

[mondar]

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.