Being Perfect

[Alabaster]

There are three means of perfection spoken of in the Bible. One is positional perfection, that which we have in Christ Jesus. One is ultimate perfection, that which we will have when we've been glorified and are like Him. The other is experiential perfection, that which refers to our maturity and is not "sinless perfection". It's the sanctification process.

Excellent. Thanks!

 

[watchman F]

You provided several passages of Scripture but not one of them says that Paul or any of the other Apostles reached that level of maturity. In fact, if one looks, Paul says he hasn't. And John says if anyone says they are without sin, they are lying.

So let's be careful when telling someone they are 100% wrong.

The scriptures that I provided show that we can through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit become sinless. I wasn't even attempting to show a scriptre that say Paul or the other Apostles were sinless. You certain cant show a scripture tha says they weren't

The fact is God can perfect us hee in this life, and you are 100% wrong.

 

[watchman F]

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I am sinless. When I repented of my sin God didn't just forgive me, but He cleanse me from all unrighteousness, and He is able to keep me sinless, and present me to himself faultless.

 

[elijah23]

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

We have all sinned. We need to stop sinning. Right?

 

[WIP]

I haven’t graduated from life yet and I am not the Lord, so I can only tell you what I think.

We need to be chaste.
We need to be humble.
We need to be sober.
We need to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls. This is the great commandment.
We need to love our neighbors as ourselves.

If we fulfill the item in blue text, would we not also fulfill the rest as it would all come naturally? Emphasis on the word "all" in this phrase. Doesn't our sinful nature prevent us from completely and utterly loving God with ALL our hearts, minds, and souls and that is why we need our savior, Jesus. We cannot do it on our own because sin is part of our nature. We don't even have enough faith to move mountains, as it were, how can we have enough faith to love God with our very being when our sinful desires keep interferring?

 

[elijah23]

If we fulfill the item in blue text, would we not also fulfill the rest as it would all come naturally? Emphasis on the word "all" in this phrase. Doesn't our sinful nature prevent us from completely and utterly loving God with ALL our hearts, minds, and souls and that is why we need our savior, Jesus. We cannot do it on our own because sin is part of our nature. We don't even have enough faith to move mountains, as it were, how can we have enough faith to love God with our very being when our sinful desires keep interferring?

Jesus said the law was based on two commandments: We are to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves.

I think it is helpful to be aware of certain specific sins we commit, however. I have been guilty of unchastity, and it was good for the Lord to make me aware that unchastity was a sin.

 

[mondar]

We have all sinned. We need to stop sinning. Right?

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

We need to stop sinning, but that is not the issue of the text. The person who says we can achieve perfection in this life does not have the truth.

 

[elijah23]

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

We need to stop sinning, but that is not the issue of the text. The person who says we can achieve perfection in this life does not have the truth.

Jesus said we have to be perfect. I would suggest that, with the Lord’s help, we endeavor to make that happen.

If we believe that it is impossible, we will fail.

If we believe it IS possible, we will succeed.

Right?

 

[glorydaz]

I am sinless. When I repented of my sin God didn't just forgive me, but He cleanse me from all unrighteousness, and He is able to keep me sinless, and present me to himself faultless.

Salvation covers us with the robe of righteousness - Christ's righteousness. That is our position in Christ.

"I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels."

The redemption of our body signals our ultimate perfection. We still reside in this body of sin and death. We still sin and die because our body has not yet been saturated with divine life. Our body is still the flesh, linked to the old creation, thus we eagerly await the redemption and transfiguration of our body.

21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Whoever is born of God does not commit sin....obviously, we do still sin, so what does this mean? It means sin and Christ cannot abide in the same place, so our sins are continually cleansed by the blood of the Lamb.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus said we have to be perfect. I would suggest that, with the Lord’s help, we endeavor to make that happen.

If we believe that it is impossible, we will fail.

If we believe it IS possible, we will succeed.

Right?

No. It doesn't matter whether we believe we can sin or not sin. We can believe we don't have cancer even though we do, or we can believe we can jump off a ten story building and live. Our efforts to be obedient affect our fellowship with the Lord. We must put our belief in the Lord Jesus Christ and His work on the cross. With all our best efforts and intentions, we will still come short of the glory of God, and coming short is sin. We deceive ourselves if we think we can succeed in being sin-free. Our sins are not counted against us if we have Christ in us. Jesus is the only One who was sinless, and He took on the likeness of sinful flesh without the sin nature we are all born with.

"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:"

"But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"

 

[elijah23]

No. It doesn't matter whether we believe we can sin or not sin. We can believe we don't have cancer even though we do, or we can believe we can jump off a ten story building and live. Our efforts to be obedient affect our fellowship with the Lord. We must put our belief in the Lord Jesus Christ and His work on the cross. With all our best efforts and intentions, we will still come short of the glory of God, and coming short is sin. We deceive ourselves if we think we can succeed in being sin-free. Our sins are not counted against us if we have Christ in us. Jesus is the only One who was sinless, and He took on the likeness of sinful flesh without the sin nature we are all born with.

I don’t think Jesus would have told us we had to be perfect unless it was possible to be perfect.

What is you definition of “perfect�

 

[farouk]

Ezekiel 16 says, 'perfect through my comeliness which I had put on thee'.

It's what is imputed to the believer by faith that counts in the sight of God, not our own supposed merits and abilities.

 

[Elijah674]

I don’t think Jesus would have told us we had to be perfect unless it was possible to be perfect.

What is you definition of “perfect�

Rom. 8:1 'IN CHRIST'. One IS prerfect when one IS IN CHRIST! We can do nothing more than what God has revealed to us. Rom. 8:14 finds us making DECISIONS moment by moment! (Hosea 4:6 & Dan. 12:4) And nome are forced to obey the Holy Spirits LEADING.

When we will not OBEY His Inspired Words (Matt. 4:4 + 2 Tim. 3:16) it is then that we are [OUT OF CHRIST]. (and that even is not yet the Great Transgression) Even 'baby knowledge' is acceptable if that is all that we have been 'LED' to accept. It is the presumptive rebellion that finds FINISHED non/perfection! Psalms 19:13

--Elijah [674]

 

[glorydaz]

I don’t think Jesus would have told us we had to be perfect unless it was possible to be perfect.

What is you definition of “perfect�

As I've said, perfect is used in three ways, depending on the scripture. One is perfect in Christ, and relates to our position in Him. His righteousness is imputed unto us. Another use of perfect refers to the future when our bodies are glorified. The third has to do with maturity...not sinlessness. I could give you examples from the Word if you would like.

 

[elijah23]

As I've said, perfect is used in three ways, depending on the scripture. One is perfect in Christ, and relates to our position in Him. His righteousness is imputed unto us. Another use of perfect refers to the future when our bodies are glorified. The third has to do with maturity...not sinlessness. I could give you examples from the Word if you would like.

My experience is that when I resist certain temptations, most of my fear disappears. I believe this is the reason Jesus said we need to be perfect.

 

[Elijah674]

As I've said, perfect is used in three ways, depending on the scripture. One is perfect in Christ, and relates to our position in Him. His righteousness is imputed unto us. Another use of perfect refers to the future when our bodies are glorified. The third has to do with maturity...not sinlessness. I could give you examples from the Word if you would like.

Hi, am 'i' spinning my wheels again??;)

Let me ask it this way. God does not deal in non/prefections! So when He stated that Adam & Eve were created Very Good, that meant PERFECT. So the question begs an answer, were they both FULLY MATURE even before sin??

That was my point in Rom. 8:1, & then the maturing REQUIREMENT of verse 14 of Sanctification. (for even the Rom. 2:14-15 Gentiles ones were PERFECT & learned of God by His Created Nature... ALONG WITH THE STRIVING OF THE HOLY GHOST, huh!

--Elijah

 

[Alabaster]

My experience is that when I resist certain temptations, most of my fear disappears. I believe this is the reason Jesus said we need to be perfect.

Yet Jesus tells us to fear not.

1 John 4:18 NLT
Such love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced his perfect love.

Jesus tells us to be perfect because He wants us to follow Him. He knows we are being sanctified daily. Our failings don't take Him by surprise. He is right there with us, urging us on, picking us up, dusting us off, and setting us back on the right path everytime we stumble.

 

[Alabaster]

Hi, am 'i' spinning my wheels again??;)

Let me ask it this way. God does not deal in non/prefections! So when He stated that Adam & Eve were created Very Good, that meant PERFECT. So the question begs an answer, were they both FULLY MATURE even before sin??

That was my point in Rom. 8:1, & then the maturing REQUIREMENT of verse 14 of Sanctification. (for even the Rom. 2:14-15 Gentiles ones were PERFECT & learned of God by His Created Nature... ALONG WITH THE STRIVING OF THE HOLY GHOST, huh!

--Elijah

This makes no sense.

 

[jasoncran]

My experience is that when I resist certain temptations, most of my fear disappears. I believe this is the reason Jesus said we need to be perfect.

sheesh i have live under the power of porn that there was no way i could be set free but the lord. i couldnt stop it and i was its prisoner.

and i fasted and prayed God take it.

 

[francisdesales]

Hi, am 'i' spinning my wheels again??;)

Let me ask it this way. God does not deal in non/prefections! So when He stated that Adam & Eve were created Very Good, that meant PERFECT. So the question begs an answer, were they both FULLY MATURE even before sin??

Wrong.

First of all, God BECAME one of us, through and through. That is "dealing in nonperfections", at the most intimate level. You post this three days before the Incarnation celebration?

Secondly, God did not create a perfect world. There is no Scriptural evidence of this, whether in the animate or inanimate world. The Scriptures do not call Adam/Eve "perfect", just "good". Good does not equate to perfection. Perfection does not only include sinlessness. If they were spiritually mature, they never would have disobeyed the one commandment God gave them. They would have trusted in God, just as the Son of God did in the desert when tempted by satan.

Regards