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Believing in Wrong Doctrine: Will I lose my salvation?

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chessman said:
Right, thanks for admitting that your understanding is based on adding to what Paul actually said in the passage. In the very same sentence are Paul’s two excellent contextual examples of departing from “the faith”. Neither having anything to do with Christ.



I never claimed “faith in food” or “faith in marriage” was “the faith”. That’s just more error and assuming on your part.


No, obviously not. By having to make up mis-quotes, it’s evident you don’t understand.

If you want to truly understand what departure from “the faith” is in 1 Tim 4:1-3, why not quote from his teo examples and how they apply to “depart from the faith” using his conclusion stated in 1 Tim 4:4-5??? Like I did in post #100, the first time I

You will not find what you assume there, that’s why.
Click to expand...


Maybe that’s the problem, you don’t understand the question.


The question is, if the term “the faith” doesn’t refer to faith in Christ, then what does it refer to.


I’m not asking about departure from the faith.




JLB
 
Church of England Announces New 'Baptism-Style' Ceremony for 'Transgenders'
there is a wrong doctrine
 
JLB said:
I see.


What about today?

Since the the Apostles of Christ are not with us today, how does Christ teach us from within, based on the scriptures I listed.



JLB
Click to expand...

Christ teaches us today via the means He left: His Church.

The Church is Apostolic, which means by virtue of her Apostolic succession via the episcopacy, historical continuity of the Apostolic ministry is the guarantee of the Apostolic tradition and faith of the Church.
 
JLB said:
I never claimed some “infused knowledge” those are your words, not mine.


When the Lord who dwells in your heart speaks to you, is that “infused knowledge”?


I’m not familiar with this term.


Is it in the Bible?



JLB
Click to expand...


No, this gnostic concept of an infused knowledge, that believers are somehow taught personally by God to know what is right doctrine, is not Biblical.

An individual faith apart from the faith of the Church is foreign to Christianity.
 
OzSpen said:
wondering,

I don't know of any married RC priests in my region. Well, they haven't received mass media publicity to single them out.

Are there married priests in Italy?

Do you know of other countries where married priests exist in the RCC?

Oz
Click to expand...

Roughly 20% of the world's Catholic priests are married. The tradition in the West (Latin Rite, or "Roman") is celibacy; whereas the tradition in the East (Coptic, Ethiopian, Armenian, Byzantine, Chaldean, Maronite, etc.) is married priests.
 
chessman said:
2. Red Herring fallacy is a fallacy used sometimes with a formal debate. We are not debating, we’re discussing the subject of known sin versus unknown sin. Are they both sin???
Click to expand...

chessman,

This is a false observation, IMU. Logically fallacies are not only used in formal debates. They are used in everyday conversations, even on CFnet.

This examination of 15 logical fallacies stated:

While some come in the form of loud, glaring inconsistencies, others can easily fly under the radar, sneaking into everyday meetings and conversations undetected (15 Common Logical Fallacies and How to Spot them).​
Oz
 
OzSpen said:
wondering,

That sounds reasonable and practical. Are there any new RC priests who are already married who enter the priesthood?

Oz
Click to expand...
No.
One of the requirements to priesthood is celibacy.
They are to be totally committed to their vocation and family would be a distraction....as per the cc.
 
Walpole said:
Roughly 20% of the world's Catholic priests are married. The tradition in the West (Latin Rite, or "Roman") is celibacy; whereas the tradition in the East (Coptic, Ethiopian, Armenian, Byzantine, Chaldean, Maronite, etc.) is married priests.
Click to expand...
what does this have to do with anything
 
Northman said:
(Real scenario today being practiced in peoples' lives)

I teach my family to abstain from certain foods.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 describes what I'm doing as a sign of someone who has departed the faith and following the doctrines of demons.

Have I lost my salvation?
Click to expand...

This is what happens when you read the Scriptures completely void of the context and tradition in which they were written. St. Paul's instruction here to his young bishop is a warning against one of the earliest heresies which was infiltrating the early Church: Gnosticism. A large portion of the New Testament was written to refute and condemn various Gnostic beliefs. 1 Tim 4:1-4 is one such example...

The "doctrine of demons" which forbade marriage and certain foods to which St. Paul was warning St. Timothy is a direct attack against Gnosticism. Gnostics forbade marriage in order to eliminate childbirth, since they believed the physical / material world, which includes the human body, was inherently evil. Therefore, to procreate meant to introduce more evil into the world. It was imprisoning a divine soul in an evil material body. For this reason, they opposed marriage since the formal end of marriage is procreation.

The Gnostics were also strict vegetarians. Flesh was evil, so they opposed the consumption of meat.
 
chessman said:
I am so sorry. I beg your forgiveness for committing what you think is a logical fallacy.

BTW, “begging the question” is not performed when someone asks someone else a question (contrary to popular belief). It’s performed when some assumes the conclusion within their premises.

“Once a man IS a priest, is he forbidden to marry?” Is a legitimate question.
Click to expand...

chessman,

My explanation of what you did was consistent with your committing a Logical Fallacy of Redundancy (Begging the Question).

Wondering had told you the conditions under which RC priests come into the priesthood but you continued asking the redundant Q: 'Once a man IS a priest, is he forbidden to marry?'

Oz
 
chessman said:
Which statement is false?

1. Red Herring fallacy is a fallacy used sometimes with a formal debate.
2. We are not debating, we’re discussing the subject of known sin versus unknown sin.
Click to expand...

chessman,

Like it or not, all forums involve back and forth discussion/debate. No matter how one wants to say we don't debate different Qs or options - we do.

That's what you and I are doing here.

Discussions on any topic, person to person, can involve logical fallacies and we need to be ready to respond to them.

Oz
 
Walpole said:
Roughly 20% of the world's Catholic priests are married. The tradition in the West (Latin Rite, or "Roman") is celibacy; whereas the tradition in the East (Coptic, Ethiopian, Armenian, Byzantine, Chaldean, Maronite, etc.) is married priests.
Click to expand...

Please document your source, otherwise it could be plagiarism.
 
OzSpen said:
chessman,

Like it or not, all forums involve back and forth discussion/debate. No matter how one wants to say we don't debate different Qs or options - we do.

That's what you and I are doing here.

Discussions on any topic, person to person, can involve logical fallacies and we need to be ready to respond to them.

Oz
Click to expand...
Which statement is false?

1. Red Herring fallacy is a fallacy used sometimes with a formal debate.
2. We are not debating, we’re discussing the subject of known sin versus unknown sin.
 
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