Believing in Wrong Doctrine: Will I lose my salvation?

[JLB]

We are to trust and believe in the person of Christ.
It is beneficial to believe the right things about Him and His plan of salvation.
But all this about a lot of the doctrinal stuff is like questioning if a operation performed by a world renowned surgeon will be effective in a person who either doesn't understand correctly about all his credentials or doesn't know what all they are. If the patient trust the surgeon enough to go under his knife the rest is in the surgeon's skills.

Can we believe in the person of Christ without obeying His teaching (doctrine)?


Do we understand what “believe on” the Lord means?





JLB

 

[JLB]

Myself and others have concluded that to RECONCLE
the eternal security NT verses with those verses that
are opposed to them ... we need to understand
what is really meant by that one word "believe"!

The Bible is its own best interpreter, in that the scriptures themselves define for us in some cases what a word or phrase means, either by context or by direct definition.



Examples of a biblical definition -



Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1



Definition of faith according to the Strongs -


Faith pistis. Strongs 4102


I. conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
A. relating to God
i. the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
B. relating to Christ
i. a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
C. the religious beliefs of Christians
D. belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same
II. fidelity, faithfulness
A. the character of one who can be relied on



Definition of believe according to Strongs.


Believe - pisteuō Strongs # G4100

The KJV translates Strong's G4100 in the following manner: believe (239x), commit unto (4x), commit to (one's) trust (1x), be committed unto (1x), be put in trust with (1x), be commit to one's trust (1x), believer (1x).



I. to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
A. of the thing believed
i. to credit, have confidence
B. in a moral or religious reference
i. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
ii. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
iii. mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
II. to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
A. to be intrusted with a thing


Contextually we must allow the scriptures to define for us the Authors intent and use of a word to convey His meaning to us.



Believe - Trust, commit; submit to obey



He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NKJV



He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB




It is noteworthy to understand that unbelief and disobedience are the same Greek word and are used interchangeably in the Bible based on translation.


Example: Unbelief - Disobedience


Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Hebrews 4:6 KJV


Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Hebrews 4:6 NKJV






JLB

 

[acts 28]

Wondering,

If you truly believe that Christ died for your sins, was buried, and raised from the dead 3 days later, as per Paul's gospel of salvation in 1Cor 15:1-4, the Holy Spirit enters you and seals you and seals your salvation, as per Paul in Eph 1:13. Also from Paul is Eph 2:8-9, where it says that works can never provide salvation.
1Cor 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Paul was chosen by Jesus Christ, on the Damascus Road, to be the ONLY preacher, teacher, and apostle to the Gentiles. Jesus Christ trained Paul through the many special revelations given to Paul, and no one else - search for the word "revelation" on Paul's epistles. Every word Paul said and wrote came from Christ. Paul's words are Christ's words. Paul's word is our Last Word,

Believe Paul always. Don't believe James on this question. James was written to Israel, Jam 1:1. Israel was required to do works - the works of the Law. You're not a Jew and Gentiles were NEVER required to keep Israel's law.

If you believe the wrong doctrine, excluding the doctrine concerning Christ, no problem. Probably 99% of Christendom and the members of any forum believe in false doctrine, but they are still saved. They have been taught by the Satan-led Denominational Church system the belief that most everything taught to or given to Israel, is also given to the Gentiles. In truth, the only books that contain truth TO us or ABOUT us Gentiles today, can be found ONLY in Paul's 7 books written after Acts - Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1&2 Timothy, Titus, and Philemon. Only in those books do you find that you can spend eternity in the Highest Heaven, where God lives, Eph 2:6,Eph 1:20. The other 59 books are TO and ABOUT Israel ONLY, except what is written about Christ. Those in the 59 Israel books had a Hope of the Earth or the New Jerusalem, which certainly isn't Heaven. It comes down from Heaven and attaches to the new Earth.

 

[JLB]

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Actually, what Paul said he “delivered” to them doesn’t end there in verse 4.


For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. 1 Corinthians 15:3-8


This is all one statement from Paul declaring what he “delivered” to them as a testimony.


This is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Matthew 4:17



JLB

 

[Bull of the Woods]

Can we believe in the person of Christ without obeying His teaching (doctrine)?


Do we understand what “believe on” the Lord means?





JLB

Obey or understand? Doctrine or His commandments?

 

[iLOVE]

Jesus said, "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." Matthew 15:14

This includes: Islam, most Jews, Catholics, JW, Mormons, SDA, Masons, ect.

 

[JLB]

Obey or understand? Doctrine or His commandments?

Obey His Gospel, commandments and doctrine.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4



Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9



and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
2 Thessalonians 1:6-10




JLB

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

What about a group of false doctrines. One false doctrine might be like pulling teeth and gnat straining over correcting it, while everything else is agreed on by Christians. However a group of false doctrines. That holds some weight on our coming to God, or having false expectations for Him.

In Mathew 5:19-20 Jesus said this about removing tenets of the Law, and therefore can be considered for fakes doctrine.

Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

What did the Pharisees and teachers of the Law lack? They rejected Jesus and Jesus rebuked them for their hypocrisy. Both of these things are worth considering in our walk with Jesus.

What about those who set aside the least of the commandments and taught others to do the same? They were the least in the Kingdom of Heaven, so that is enough for us to try and do better, but at least they made it, unlike the Pharisees and teachers of the Law.

It might be gnat straining to confront a false doctrine, but if it's done with a good heart instead of just arguing for the sake of arguing (as mentioned before, my doctrine is better then yours) then the gnat straining might be good enough to break down larger false doctrines that are a group of false teachings. This could help bring people to God because they understand better His expectations, His promises, and His teachings. It hopefully will also help us grow in maturity as Christians.

 

[acts 28]

Actually, what Paul said he “delivered” to them doesn’t end there in verse 4.


For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. 1 Corinthians 15:3-8


This is all one statement from Paul declaring what he “delivered” to them as a testimony.


This is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Matthew 4:17



JLB

Your point about 1Cor 15:1-4 is totally pointless

The Gospel of Jesus Christ was the 100% Israel Gospel of the Kingdom, which has absolutely nothing to do with our salvation and nothing at all to do with any Gentile living today. Christ was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, Mt 15:24. PERIOD!!! Christ selected Paul to be the ONLY apostle to the Gentiles. For Gentiles, Paul is the very LAST WORD above everybody, including Christ, who was solely a minister to Israel. If His teaching was also to the Gentiles, Paul would not be needed. Since Paul was trained by Christ in the many special revelations he received, Paul's words are Christ's Words. Every Word Paul wrote was God-breathed by Christ. Nothing Christ EVER said will get you saved. Paul is the only teacher, preacher, and apostle we Gentiles have. PERIOD!

 

[ezra]

Your point about 1Cor 15:1-4 is totally pointless

The Gospel of Jesus Christ was the 100% Israel Gospel of the Kingdom, which has absolutely nothing to do with our salvation and nothing at all to do with any Gentile living today. Christ was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, Mt 15:24. PERIOD!!! Christ selected Paul to be the ONLY apostle to the Gentiles. For Gentiles, Paul is the very LAST WORD above everybody, including Christ, who was solely a minister to Israel. If His teaching was also to the Gentiles, Paul would not be needed. Since Paul was trained by Christ in the many special revelations he received, Paul's words are Christ's Words. Every Word Paul wrote was God-breathed by Christ.

we been grafted into the vine thus yes we do need Christ teaching it has everything to do with our salvation

 

[for_his_glory]

Since the true doctrine is that of what Jesus taught then why do we follow man instead of believing what Jesus has already taught. Man can't save us, even by their own doctrines as Salvation is from God alone to all who will believe by faith. If we are not testing the spirit of truth or error we will be misled if we are only relying on man to teach us.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

1. God's salvation by His grace through faith
2. Test the spirit of truth or error as only the Holy Spirit can teach us all things.
3. Many have and will continue to fall from faith

OSAS, no.............. OSNAS, yes. It's in all that you allow yourself to believe.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Your point about 1Cor 15:1-4 is totally pointless

The Gospel of Jesus Christ was the 100% Israel Gospel of the Kingdom, which has absolutely nothing to do with our salvation and nothing at all to do with any Gentile living today. Christ was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, Mt 15:24. PERIOD!!! Christ selected Paul to be the ONLY apostle to the Gentiles. For Gentiles, Paul is the very LAST WORD above everybody, including Christ, who was solely a minister to Israel. If His teaching was also to the Gentiles, Paul would not be needed. Since Paul was trained by Christ in the many special revelations he received, Paul's words are Christ's Words. Every Word Paul wrote was God-breathed by Christ.

That's not correct though. John 14:6 and 1 Corinthians 3 both speak about Jesus being the foundation. Not Paul

 

[stovebolts]

actually the greek word is metamnous - change your mind

this is kinda cool because God tells us to CHANGE OUR MIND - about what? - imo God wants us to change our mind about who is right and who is wrong - God is right and we are wrong - and so we should start listening to God

i also find it interesting that God tells us to CHANGE OUR MIND because He knows that our actions will follow our mind

trying to change our actions when our mind has not changed is a frustrating endeavor

I think your on the right track. The way I understand it in its simplistic form, you stop this, and you start that. It's about producing the fruits of the spirit.

Also, we need to find the correct biblical balance. It's a blend of God's grace and God's wrath.

 

[OzSpen]

good point - i guess when we start making up terms that aren't in the bible we can find all kinds of disagreement

Since the word Trinity is not in the Bible, should we give up on that doctrine? 'All kinds of disagreement' should not prevent us from engaging in exegesis of the biblical text.

if we stick to bible words we might do better in our discussions

I don't think that should be a criterion for better translations and discussions, e.g. the word Bible is not in the Bible. Should we give up on using that word?

What is the hypostatic union? David Mathis of Desiring God Ministries explained:

“Hypostatic union” sounds fancy in English, but it’s actually a simple term. Hypostatic means personal. The hypostatic union is the personal union of Jesus’s two natures.​

​

“The hypostatic union is the mysterious joining of the divine and the human in the one person of Jesus.”​

​

Jesus has two complete natures: one fully human and one fully divine. What the doctrine of the hypostatic union teaches is that these two natures are united in one person in the God-man. Jesus is not two persons. He is one person. The hypostatic union is the joining (mysterious though it be) of the divine and the human in the one person of Jesus.​

Should we give up on using omniscience, omnipotence, immanence, immutability, eternal security and total depravity?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Really! This nails it for me. Thanks.

sunflower,

So, should we stop speaking of the aseity of God, i.e. the self-sufficient God?

Oz

 

[Truthfrees]

I think your on the right track. The way I understand it in its simplistic form, you stop this, and you start that. It's about producing the fruits of the spirit.

Also, we need to find the correct biblical balance. It's a blend of God's grace and God's wrath.

amen - and isn't the wrath of God tied somewhat to the reverential fear/respect/awe of God?

 

[Truthfrees]

Since the word Trinity is not in the Bible, should we give up on that doctrine? 'All kinds of disagreement' should not prevent us from engaging in exegesis of the biblical text.

well not really - the bible word for what we call Trinity is Godhead - that would be ok to call Father Son and Holy Spirit the Godhead imo

even judaism uses the term Godhead

 

[Truthfrees]

I don't think that should be a criterion for better translations and discussions, e.g. the word Bible is not in the Bible. Should we give up on using that word?

true - scripture/holy writings are the bible word - that would be ok to use imo -

why do we come up with words not in the bible? - did the apostolic fathers and early church fathers make up these words? - or did it come later with the scholars? - it would be interesting to find out when these non-biblical terms started being used for the bible concepts

but you know what i don't really care that much - it was just a thought - just trying to brainstorm ideas to facilitate more friendly and clearer discussions - i'm pretty flexible - i just want to see us all grow together in Christ and try to understand each other without attacking anyone or their beliefs

 

[OzSpen]

i have been studying hebrew and greek for years on my own and in the last 4 years been taking classes on biblical hebrew and the fascinating thing from my earliest years and still til today is that the translators make decisions on how to translate a phrase that isn't always about language - it is about politics theology - and also often as someone here i think said - one hebrew or greek word takes many words to properly translate and most translators take only one english word per one greek/hebrew word

when i first started learning hebrew and greek on my own i spoke to a scholar and told him of some of the words i found that were clearly mistranslated - he agreed - i asked him how can these scholars purposely do that? - are they not afraid of God striking them for changing HIS words - as Revelations says there will be a curse on anyone who adds to or takes away any of God's words - what my scholar friend told me is - most scholars are not believers - they are scholars - and when they have discussions on how to best translate a word it is NOT about how to accurately repeat what God said in english - it is about what they think SHOULD have been said

now to be honest there are only a few places where there is a serious mis-translation - there are many places where there are mild mistranslations though - and ALL of these serious and mild mistranslations cause the scriptures to be confusing sometimes - appear contradictory other times - and bland most times

the thing is when you read scripture in greek and hebrew it becomes so ALIVE and EXCITING you can hardly contain yourself at the clear and amazing things God says

the power of God is INDEED evident when you read scripture in greek and hebrew

i realize most people are not going to be able to learn greek and hebrew - so for them they can listen to good teachers who bring out the power of God's words from the original languages - or they can get a greek hebrew transliteration bible - hard copy or computer program

for those who are able to undertake learning greek and hebrew i would really recommend they do so - it is a lifelong learning curve but you will not be disappointed - in fact you will almost immediately be blessed with seeing how good God's messages are in the original languages and it will inspire you to continue

if you want to learn on your own i recommend you get a greek/hebrew/english transliteration bible AND a greek and hebrew lexicon - hard copy or computer program - that will be enough to get you going - and you may never find a need to take a greek or hebrew course -

then if you really want to take the time and pay the money to learn one or both of the languages in a class you will get further blessed - or if you can't afford biblical language courses you can join a hebrew synagogue and take their biblical language courses for free - and a greek orthodox church and take their biblical language courses for free - the added benefit of joining a group that studies the bible in the original language is that not only can you take their classes you can also study scripture in the original language with them - this is even more fun than learning on your own - and learning on your own is super exciting - so you should really be blessed no matter which path you take

Truthfrees,

I commend you for engaging in study of the Hebrew and Greek languages on your own.

In this post, it would have been helpful to me if you had illustrated your points with examples.

You stated:

the thing is when you read scripture in greek and hebrew it becomes so ALIVE and EXCITING you can hardly contain yourself at the clear and amazing things God says​

I'm pleased you've found it that way but I found it could be as 'confusing' in some places in the Greek as in English. e.g. Is the aorist tense constative, ingressive, culminative, gnomic, epistolary, or dramatic?

In conditional clauses (in Greek), they can be classified as: (1) supposition from the viewpoint of reality; (2) Supposition from the viewpoint of probability; (3) Simple condition; (4) Contrary to fact condition; (5) The more probable future condition; and (6) The less probable future condition.

They are only a fraction of the nuances of the Greek language that many times make translation a challenge.

But you stated: 'read scripture in greek and hebrew it becomes so ALIVE and EXCITING you can hardly contain yourself at the clear and amazing things God says'.

The Greek may be clear to you but it is not always clear to me. There is a lot of work to do with grammar, etymology of a word, and context to arrive at a satisfactory translation.

For my BA with a minor in Greek I used The Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, H E Dana and JR Mantey (1955. The Macmillan Company).

Oz

 

[Senior]

... you can lose your salvation IS NOT IN THE BIBLE

You must be spiritually blind.
I will post a new thread about this pronto.