BEWARE OF LEAVEN, EAT UNLEAVENED BREAD AND LIVE

[Carry_Your_Name]

Hi Carry_Your_Name

I'm not sure it's an all or nothing attitude. I would say it's a matter of not understanding God's purposes. The Jew struggled with it also. God even called then on it at one point,

God bless,
Ted

If we're still on the topic of unleavened bread, then God has two clear purposes for that: to commemorate the Israelites' exodus from Egypt, and the burial of Jesus Christ. Unleavened bread symbolizes the beaten and broken body of Christ, his birthplace, Bethlehem, literally means "house of bread".

 

[Humblepie]

Better get rid of this all-or-nothing mentality, it's very immature, it distorts your view of the world. Washing your hands before meal is simply a good habit for personal hygiene, and likewise, all the other laws about "cleanness" and "uncleanness" are essentially and primarily public heath regulations, those were well advanced at the time, we shouldn't read them from a religious or moral perspective.

This topic isn't about "good habits" or health department regulations and I never said I don't wash my hands. We should always read God's word with moral and spiritual conviction.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Acts 10:28 specifically interprets the vision God gave him and it had NOTHING to do with food.
If you interpret it this way you are clearly adding to the text words that are not there.

God used foods to make His point.
If the foods were unclean any more, He wouldn't be able to use them in this situation.

Acts 11 reaffirms that the vision was about MEN not about food. And as you read you will also realize that they followed the dietary laws because it was sinful to not follow them .

I agree, but God won't use an unclean subject to illustrate a clean one.

Pig, dog, cat, rabbit, crow etc were never considered to be "food"
It would be like you calling feces food. It wouldn't even be discussed as food.

I don't see them named in Acts 10's vision.

Furthermore, Col 2:8 says..."Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."
The traditions of men is exactly what acts 10 and 11 is about.

If you feel you are not yet dead to the Law, (Rom 7:6), I advise you to repent of sin and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins so you can be dead to the Law.

 

[Humblepie]

Do you agree that the whole nation of Israel is still God's Chosen people?
Or is that just old testament mubo jumbo.

Are we one body in christ?

There are more scripture in the whole Bible that backs what Paul taught, than there are scriptures that Christians twist to justify the belief that the law and grace are opposing doctrines.

Grace and the law exists in perfect harmony, that's in the scriptures. There has always been grace since sin entered the world.
They do not contradict.

The law will never save you, it only points to the messiah. Saved by grace, following God's commands because you are saved. That's his plan.

 

[Humblepie]

The only law that is dead when you believe is the law of sin and death.
That law states you sin you die. Paul wrote of many laws, not to be confused with the Torah.
Read it in context. When he talks about different laws, pay attention to what he is saying and don't assume it's always the Torah he is talking about.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

This topic isn't about "good habits" or health department regulations and I never said I don't wash my hands. We should always read God's word with moral and spiritual conviction.

Or sometimes we shouldn't when it comes down to these specific laws, lest we grow a sense of superiority or resentment. If you read a moral and spiritual aspect into this particular hand washing law, then those who compulsively wash their hands before meal would feel morally and spiritually superior with their obedience and conviction, that was the common attitude among the Pharisees; it's even elevated into an identity, and those who don't may grow a sense of resentment towards those who do. However, if you read it simply as a public health department regulation, you won't have any of these issue.

 

[Humblepie]

I agree, but God won't use an unclean subject to illustrate a clean one.

Lol, but he did. It's clear.unless you read a different gospel

 

[Hopeful 2]

Lol, but he did. It's clear.unless you read a different gospel

If eating leaven, or pork, is sinful to you...don't eat them.
But it is not a Law that I must follow.

 

[miamited]

Do you agree that the whole nation of Israel is still God's Chosen people?

Hi Humblepie

Yes, Israel will always be God's chosen people, but only a remnant will be saved.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Who Me]

Yes, just eat tortilla for a week, no big deal.

No thank you I prefer a crusty wholemeal loaf.

 

[miamited]

Hi Humblepie and Bro.Tan

Of course, even in Israel, using leaven wasn't against God's commands except in the practice of observing some of the special days that God instituted among them. Do either of you honor those commands that were established to be practiced in that way. When was the last time that you actually made a grain offering to your God? Do you celebrate the Feast of Unleavened Bread?

The law forbade leaven in any grain offering. Also leaven could not be used during the Passover and the following Feast of Unleavened Bread. However, God's word does use leaven as a metaphor to us of how sin permeates our lives. But I'm pretty sure that there is no command that they never use leaven.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Humblepie]

Ted,
One cannot offer sacrifices at this time as it would be breaking the law. There isn't a temple or alter to offer it on. So until a temple is built sacrifices can't be accomplished in the way the law prescribes.
When Jesus returns to rule on earth, ALL the commandments will be observed, including animal sacrifice.

Here is something to ponder.
Why would God bring back the sacrificial system during his reign on Earth if the law has been fulfilled or abolished as you claim?

One more thing to ponder.
Can God break his covenant if it is only temporary breech? (Church age)
Did God ever break a conditional or everlasting covenant according to scripture?

 

[miamited]

Ted,
One cannot offer sacrifices at this time as it would be breaking the law. There isn't a temple or alter to offer it on. So until a temple is built sacrifices can't be accomplished in the way the law prescribes.
When Jesus returns to rule on earth, ALL the commandments will be observed, including animal sacrifice.

Here is something to ponder.
Why would God bring back the sacrificial system during his reign on Earth if the law has been fulfilled or abolished as you claim?

One more thing to ponder.
Can God break his covenant if it is only temporary breech? (Church age)
Did God ever break a conditional or everlasting covenant according to scripture?

Hey Humblepie

So, if one cannot offer sacrifices at this time, then what's this big beef about getting rid of leaven in our homes and the OP's position that we can live if we get rid of leaven? I always understood the new covenant that God has made with mankind is that if we trust and believe in the sacrifice of His Son for our sin, and believe that God raised him from the dead that we will be saved on the day of God's judgment against all of mankind. Is that not true?

And no, God has never broken any of His covenants. Not with Israel and not with the believers who have, now that the work of Israel is finished, come to believe what God has promised in the new covenant that covers everyone.

I don't know why God would bring back His sacrificial system, but the claim that seems to be made in the OP, is that He apparently does still expect us to keep those ceremonies and sacrifices that deal with leaven. And the OP seems to be making the point that not only do we need to honor those special circumstances, but that we just need to quite eating anything with leaven, period.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Humblepie]

Have you ever even read the new covenant?

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

He says he will put his LAW on our heart of flesh instead of stone tablets.

As far as "the work of Israel being finished"

Jeremiah 31: 35-37
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36. If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

 

[miamited]

Hi Humblepie

Look, I don't know who you're asking your question of. Generally, it is proper etiquette in these discussions to either quote someone's writing that you are addressing or to @ whatever their screen name is to identify who you are speaking to or about.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

Hi Humblepie

Have you ever even read the new covenant?

Just on the off chance that you are responding to my post, yes, I've read the new covenant. And what you've posted isn't it. That says that God is going to put his law on our hearts, but the new covenant was what Jesus did. He held up the bread and wine and proclaimed, this is the new covenant that is in my blood. The new covenant is not like the old covenant which never provided for eternal salvation.

The new 'promise' that God has now made to very single living individual upon the face of the earth, is that if they will believe in the work of His Son for the sacrifice for their sin, trusting only in that finished work, and establishing the commands that His Son gave us as we strive onward in this life... that person will be saved.

That means that they trust Jesus's death for their sin.

That means that they are baptized.

That means that they then live a life of striving to be more and more like him, as they mature in their faith. God has made a covenant that for those people, He will grant eternal life with Him. That is the new covenant. The new promise. If you read the words of the old covenant (promise) God never says that they will gain eternal life. You can read it in Leviticus 26 what God promised Israel for their faithfulness. There is not a word in it about eternal life. The promise to them was that their obedience would gain them peace and satisfaction and protection in this life. As they lived among the nations of the earth, they would always have victory in their battles and they would always have plenty of food and dwell in the land and be safe from the wickedness of the other nations.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Humblepie]

Ted,
My apologies for not using proper etiquette.

Ted, We are not that far apart in our beliefs.
I believe that grace through faith is what makes you righteous emphasis added.

I also believe that the law and grace are in harmony, not forgetting that the law isn't the path to eternal life, only Christ.

If you follow the spirit of the law wouldn't that mean you not only follow the law but the intentions of it as well. For example, Thou shalt not commit adultery, (or look upon her with lust)

His law is perfect, it is us that's imperfect and we need a savior.

I am saved by grace through faith not of works, its a gift from God.



2 Cor 3:6

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 

[miamited]

Hi Humblepie

I believe that grace through faith is what makes you righteous emphasis added.

I also believe that the law and grace are in harmony, not forgetting that the law isn't the path to eternal life, only Christ.

If you follow the spirit of the law wouldn't that mean you not only follow the law but the intentions of it as well. For example, Thou shalt not commit adultery, (or look upon her with lust)

You still don't get it, friend. For those in Christ, we are dead to the old covenant law. We are covered under the new covenant law which Jesus described as containing two commands. Love God and love others. Have you not read that by keeping the law shall no flesh be saved. We are saved through the sacrifice of Jesus, and once we accept that and are baptized and indwelled with God's Spirit, we will then strive to keep the commands that Jesus gave us to keep. And the 10 commandment law is what Jesus spoke of.

None of that stuff about foods and clothing material and eating leavened bread and so forth. That was the law that God gave unto Israel as they wandered in the wilderness and the basic intention of all of that law was to keep Israel from assimilating into the other nations. And even though Israel was stiff necked and rebellious 90% of the time, God worked His will among them to 1.) Have His oracles written down for the generations to come. 2.) to provide the final sacrifice through Jesus' death that was the sacrifice for all sin for all mankind.

We can eat leaven. We can eat meat on Friday. We can wear any reasonable clothing that we want. We can even eat meat sacrificed to idols, so long as we have a clear conscience about it and it doesn't cause another to stumble. And even then, we should not eat, not because it's a sin for us, but because it is a sin for the other person.

Trust God!! I've read the new covenant and I know what God is asking of me. However, I am still a man with a wicked heart that stumbles in sin from time to time. But under the new covenant, God has promised that if I come to Him confessing my sin with a contrite and humble heart, that he will forgive me my sin. And Jesus even gave an example that we should forgive someone who sins against us repeatedly if they seek our forgiveness, because that's exactly what God is doing with us.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Humblepie]

Ted,
I understand exactly what you're telling me, I was Assemblies of God for 45 years until I started testing everything to scripture and historical context. The old testament doesn't contradict the new testament, it only brings all scripture to its fullest.



I believe the WHOLE Bible is applicable to our daily lives including his righteous law. Today's Christians only believe that the epistles are applicable and some other parts of the old testament that line up with their doctrine but if it contradicts the new testament its only due to "Dispensationalism" because we are in the church age.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

You can't tell Jesus you never knew the truth you can only ask for forgiveness for not believing the truth.

Will you be great in the kingdom or will you be least in the kingdom?

God Bless,
I'm out.

 

[miamited]

Hi Humblepie

The old testament doesn't contradict the new testament, it only brings all scripture to its fullest.

It's not a matter of any contradiction. There are two covenants. It's really just that simple. There was the covenant that God made with the Israelites as they were in the wilderness. Then His prophets foretold of a new covenant. That God's word says will not be like the old covenant. The covenant that the OP is trying to tell us that we still need to honor is the old covenant that God gave specifically and only to Israel.

He also seems to think that we are the new Israel. That's replacement theology and it isn't true. There are two covenants. They are different, just as God has told us through His prophets. God still loves His people Israel. Despite their often being stiff-necked and rebellious, they did complete the work that God established for them to do. They didn't do it by keeping the law. They did it by writing His law down. They did it by keeping the historical record of all that God has done among us. They did it by slaughtering the final and perfect sacrificial Lamb that God prepared for them to slaughter. That's what Jesus was referring to when he said, just before his death, "It is finished." The work that God had raised up Israel to do, was completed and the perfect plan of our salvation was finished when Jesus died.

"Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah--not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord."
It's the covenant that Jesus spoke of that was made through his blood for us. Two totally different covenants. One for eternal life and another for peace and prosperity for the Israelites in this life. Did you read the passage I posted from Leviticus? There's nothing listed under the old covenant that promised eternal life.

'If you walk in My statutes and keep My commandments, and perform them,..."
Here comes the promise to them if they would walk in His statutes and keep His commandments:
then I will give you rain in its season, the land shall yield its produce, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. Your threshing shall last till the time of vintage, and the vintage shall last till the time of sowing; you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely. I will give peace in the land, and you shall lie down, and none will make you afraid; I will rid the land of evil beasts, and the sword will not go through your land. You will chase your enemies, and they shall fall by the sword before you. Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight; your enemies shall fall by the sword before you. 'For I will look on you favorably and make you fruitful, multiply you and confirm My covenant with you. You shall eat the old harvest, and clear out the old because of the new. I will set My tabernacle among you, and My soul shall not abhor you. I will walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people. I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that you should not be their slaves; I have broken the bands of your yoke and made you walk upright.
Nothing in there about eternal life.
Here's the new covenant that God has now made with all of mankind through the death of His Son.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
And this is the promise that He has promised us--eternal life.
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

All of these references to the new covenant are the only place where God's word speaks of giving a promise of eternal life. In fact, when I search for 'eternal life' on my biblestudy.com web site, there are no references to it that come up in any of the old covenant writings. Every single place where the words 'eternal life' are found in the Scriptures, are apparently only in the new covenant writings. Kind of interesting, don't you think.

So look, if you want to go around not eating leavened bread, go for it. But God hasn't asked that of you.

God bless,
Ted