Bible reasons supporting free will

[Gabbylittleangel]

Drew, Arminians and Calvinists believe that Christ’s death is suffient to save a believer. That’s a blanket statement that jg, Gabby and I agree with. It was assumed in my post that I was dealing with those who would agree with this. If you read what jg wrote you’ll find agreement.

Hmmm. I am at a bit of a disadvantage here. I don't be knowin nothin about Arminians and Calvinist and such. I reckon ifn they was to be sayin that there ain't no sin too big to be covered by the blood of Jesus, then I be agreed with ya'll. (Grandpa teached me ta talk)

It looked to me as if JM was also saying something about Pauls reference to the natural man.

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

It would take a bit of time to look up the verses to back this up, but let me paraphrase some thoughts from Scripture.

The unsaved person is blind to the things of God. It is up to the believer to:

1.) Ask for the unsaved person to be saved. Ask the Lord to search their heart. Find what it will take to bring that person to the Lord. Perhaps conviction of sin, a need, having a miracle take place in their life, providence that they will know can only be from God, or a realization of His love.

2.)Be willing to be used in the process of bringing this person to the cross.

3.) Ask God to remove the blindness from their mind, soften the hardness of their heart, remove the deafness from their ears (spiritually speaking). Prepare them for receiving the gospel.

4.) Now that the blindness has been removed, pray that the light would shine before them. Then pray that God puts something before them that they can see. Ask the Lord to call them in a way that they can hear and understand.

Scripture says that for a lost person to be saved, it has to be a work of the Holy Spirit. Well, guess where the Holy Spirit is? That is why God calls us vessels. This bucket full of Spirit needs to be in the right place at the right time. I believe history proves that revival only happens when believers pray for it to happen.

 

[Drew]

1.) Ask for the unsaved person to be saved. Ask the Lord to search their heart. Find what it will take to bring that person to the Lord. Perhaps conviction of sin, a need, having a miracle take place in their life, providence that they will know can only be from God, or a realization of His love.

2.)Be willing to be used in the process of bringing this person to the cross.

3.) Ask God to remove the blindness from their mind, soften the hardness of their heart, remove the deafness from their ears (spiritually speaking). Prepare them for receiving the gospel.

4.) Now that the blindness has been removed, pray that the light would shine before them. Then pray that God puts something before them that they can see. Ask the Lord to call them in a way that they can hear and understand.

JM, if you are out there, I am curious to know which of the above you agree with. I will guess that you have no obection to (3) and (4) since they basically express a view that God has to "open the heart" of a person who is otherwise fundamentally incapable of turning to God "on their own".

What say ye in respect to (1) and (2). Can believer's have any "influence" on the process of opening a human heart to the gospel?

 

[Oscar3]

Drew Spoken like an Open theist :wink:
Open theism, also called free will theism and openness theology, is the belief that God does not exercise meticulous control of the universe but leaves it "open" for humans to make significant choices (free will) that impact their relationships with God and others. A corollary of this is that God has not predetermined the future. Open Theists further believe that this would imply that God does not know the future exhaustively. Proponents affirm that God is omniscient, but deny that this means that God knows everything that will happen.

 

[JM]

JM, if you are out there, I am curious to know which of the above you agree with. I will guess that you have no obection to (3) and (4) since they basically express a view that God has to "open the heart" of a person who is otherwise fundamentally incapable of turning to God "on their own".

What say ye in respect to (1) and (2). Can believer's have any "influence" on the process of opening a human heart to the gospel?

Phi 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

When we will to do, it's Grace up holding us, giving us the means to do what is right in the eyes of God. It's not to my glory for it is "God which worketh in" me and it's not just "to will" but also "to do" whatever is pleasing to God. When we pray we pray because God decrees the means as well as the end. The means being prayer and the ends are God's will in the matter.

CH Spurgeon wrote, “I do not come into this pulpit hoping that perhaps somebody will of his own free will return to Christ. My hope lies in another quarter. I hope that my Master will lay hold of some of them and say, "You are mine, and you shall be mine. I claim you for myself." My hope arises from the freeness of grace, and not from the freedom of the will.â€Â

Peace,

jm

 

[jgredline]

Drew Spoken like an Open theist :wink:

Hmmm, now this is interesting :-?

Drew. Are you an Open theist? In reading and getting familiar with your post, this shoe would certainly seem to fit.. :o

 

[JM]

Drew, I've noticed you're reluctance at defining your personal views, instead taking the role of devil's advocate trying your best to poke holes in what every else believes. You've come to know what most of us believe, what do you believe?

jm

 

[jgredline]

Hmmm, now this is interesting :-?

Drew. Are you an Open theist? In reading and getting familiar with your post, this shoe would certainly seem to fit.. :o

Drew
I do not believe in coincidence. I find it quite interesting that this very question that was asked of you by Oscar was also mentioned to me via PM by another member regarding your beliefs. So I ask you again.

Drew. Are you an Open theist? In reading and getting familiar with your post, this shoe would certainly seem to fit..

Looking up, It appears that JM also wants to know.

 

[Oscar3]

Drew

Are you hiding?

Its not like you not to come up with some fancy words and essay that are written better than most classical greek scholars to describe what you actually believe.

Enquiring minds want to know.

 

[Drew]

Drew

Are you hiding?

Its not like you not to come up with some fancy words and essay that are written better than most classical greek scholars to describe what you actually believe.

Enquiring minds want to know.

Gentlemen:

I am honoured that you are interested in what I believe. I will have to ask you to wait for a more detailed answer. I will say this for the present.

1. I think that there is Biblical more support for the Open Theist view than most people realize - I am committed neither way, despite a past history of defending the Open Theist view.

2. I do believe in the reality of "free will" but think it is probably a lot less free than most "garden-variety" Arminians think.

3. My views on these matters are in the process of being developed. To me, this is no crime. Most, if not all, of you seem to know what you believe. I am still workong on it.

4. We are, in this forum, trying to understand what the Scriptures , teach - and I agree to this focus.

Back to you later....