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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Biblical cessationism
- Thread starter Wrg1405
- Start date
Malachi
Member
Cessationism is not a dirty word. All the spiritual gifts cannot be lumped together. Some would cease, and cease they did. Others would not, and would remain as long as the Church was on earth. Those for the apostolic period did cease. We do not have apostles and prophets today (and those who make such claims are phony), neither do we have the "sign" gifts.
Wrg1405
Member
Not saying cessationism is a dirty word. Please expand on what you feel has ceased and what has not.
An apostle is one sent out by God that is indwelled with the Holy Spirit as they are sent out into the world as missionaries. The twelve were disciples first who sat under the teachings of Jesus and later were indwelled with the Holy Spirit, became apostles and sent out by God on their various missionary trips. Paul the same and many today up to the time of Christ return, so yes there are apostles even today.
A prophet was one who delivered divine messages from God like that of the Prophets of the OT and Jesus in the NT. From the time of Jesus there was no longer a need for a prophet when the apostles wrote letters to the church and those writings became what we call a Bible today. So, no there is no modern day prophets and if one says they are they are a liar as we have everything written to read for ourselves of what God has already spoke to us.
Having taught this very thing in a Baptist Church, I was asked or challenged by one of my students, we all eventually visited a church assembly believing in receiving the Holy Spirit evidenced by speaking in tongues, and of course the remainder of the spiritual gifts, and walla; my wife, children, and all but the one student that asked ended up receiving the Holy Spirit that night.
Did that experience change my thinking on the gifts of the Holy Spirit? Yes, and that was regardless of all I had been taught. Common sense no longer applied and scripture opened up for me like no time preceding that. We have among a former Baptist preacher named Chopper that also has been down this road, and knows the full power of God to bless us in all of God's provision. Many times we are the only ones holding us from experiencing God's best for us.
Are there times some use these manifestations of the Holy Spirit wrongly? I can near guarantee it, and the minds of even Christians can suffer wrong motives in their use to raise money near as bad as the world putting on a carnival. Do I believe most doing this are in Christ? Yes and just as Peter denied Christ three times, he needed to grow in grace and truth of our Lord Jesus Christ. We remain God's work in progress, and it is Him that will deliver us unto truth if allowed by us to do so.
Blessings in Christ Jesus.
Chopper
Member
This is a critical topic for today. Thank you Wrg1405 for starting this thread. Lets go to a couple of Scriptures to answer your questions....
Ephesians 4:11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" (KJV)
Notice first of all, that this is written to the Church at Ephesus which was established by the Apostle Paul. If these positions were to cease at the death of the Apostle, it wouldn't have been an instruction to the Church to carry them on.
What most people don't focus on is the time frame that these leaders in the Church would be needed. Lets look at what the SCRIPTURE says....Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.
Unity of the faith. Knowledge of the Son of God. Unto a perfect man. The measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. Lets look at the ESV....
Ephesians 4:11 "And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ"
Now, to answer your questions Wrg1405 I have to pose a question. Verse 13 gives us the time line that the Apostle, Prophet, evangelist, Pastor and teacher will function in the Church of Christ Jesus.... until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ....Question. Has the Church or Churches ever attained to these requirements? My answer is NO!!
Sin invaded every first Century Church by the power of Satan and his demons to keep the Church of Christ Jesus from attaining this ideal. If the Church ever did attain to maturity and the fullness of Christ, then these offices and leaders would no longer be needed, as many say they have ceased. I say, they have not ceased!! Only in the minds and wishes of men who don't want another man over them, to answer to.
Since the Church has never attained to the Scriptural standard set up by it's Head Jesus the Son of God, we still need them. It is my opinion that even today, the Church of Christ Jesus is weak and powerless because the offices of Apostle and Prophet are missing. Many of our churches boast of being "independent". The Pastor answers to no one but himself. Sometimes he listens to his Elders but the final say is him alone. Many churches have been ruined by these dictators who call themselves pastors. Baptists are, IMO, the worst example and I'm a Baptist Pastor.
I have been in churches that claim all the gifts of the Holy Spirit, a lady stands up and gives a prophesy about how wonderful the Assembly is and God is pleased, and so on, and so on. That's garbage!! If a genuine Prophet came to that exact church, he would rip it apart and expose a multitude of sins in the Pastor and people. All but a very few Pastors would let that Prophet in HIS church. Something like....
3 John 1:9 "I have written something to the church, but Diotrephes, who likes to put himself first, does not acknowledge our authority.
1:10 So if I come, I will bring up what he is doing, talking wicked nonsense against us. And not content with that, he refuses to welcome the brothers, and also stops those who want to and puts them out of the church."
So my Brother and new friend, The gifts of 1 Corinthians 12, and the Leaders of Ephesians 4 are desperately needed to day to revive the Church of Christ Jesus and bring it back to what Jesus the Son of God intended when He died for the forgiveness of our sins and to establish His Church for us to fellowship in Truth, and to worship His worthy, worthy, worthy Name.
Ephesians 4:11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" (KJV)
Notice first of all, that this is written to the Church at Ephesus which was established by the Apostle Paul. If these positions were to cease at the death of the Apostle, it wouldn't have been an instruction to the Church to carry them on.
What most people don't focus on is the time frame that these leaders in the Church would be needed. Lets look at what the SCRIPTURE says....Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.
Unity of the faith. Knowledge of the Son of God. Unto a perfect man. The measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. Lets look at the ESV....
Ephesians 4:11 "And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ"
Now, to answer your questions Wrg1405 I have to pose a question. Verse 13 gives us the time line that the Apostle, Prophet, evangelist, Pastor and teacher will function in the Church of Christ Jesus.... until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ....Question. Has the Church or Churches ever attained to these requirements? My answer is NO!!
Sin invaded every first Century Church by the power of Satan and his demons to keep the Church of Christ Jesus from attaining this ideal. If the Church ever did attain to maturity and the fullness of Christ, then these offices and leaders would no longer be needed, as many say they have ceased. I say, they have not ceased!! Only in the minds and wishes of men who don't want another man over them, to answer to.
Since the Church has never attained to the Scriptural standard set up by it's Head Jesus the Son of God, we still need them. It is my opinion that even today, the Church of Christ Jesus is weak and powerless because the offices of Apostle and Prophet are missing. Many of our churches boast of being "independent". The Pastor answers to no one but himself. Sometimes he listens to his Elders but the final say is him alone. Many churches have been ruined by these dictators who call themselves pastors. Baptists are, IMO, the worst example and I'm a Baptist Pastor.
I have been in churches that claim all the gifts of the Holy Spirit, a lady stands up and gives a prophesy about how wonderful the Assembly is and God is pleased, and so on, and so on. That's garbage!! If a genuine Prophet came to that exact church, he would rip it apart and expose a multitude of sins in the Pastor and people. All but a very few Pastors would let that Prophet in HIS church. Something like....
3 John 1:9 "I have written something to the church, but Diotrephes, who likes to put himself first, does not acknowledge our authority.
1:10 So if I come, I will bring up what he is doing, talking wicked nonsense against us. And not content with that, he refuses to welcome the brothers, and also stops those who want to and puts them out of the church."
So my Brother and new friend, The gifts of 1 Corinthians 12, and the Leaders of Ephesians 4 are desperately needed to day to revive the Church of Christ Jesus and bring it back to what Jesus the Son of God intended when He died for the forgiveness of our sins and to establish His Church for us to fellowship in Truth, and to worship His worthy, worthy, worthy Name.
Chopper
Member
Having taught this very thing in a Baptist Church, I was asked or challenged by one of my students, we all eventually visited a church assembly believing in receiving the Holy Spirit evidenced by speaking in tongues, and of course the remainder of the spiritual gifts, and walla; my wife, children, and all but the one student that asked ended up receiving the Holy Spirit that night.
Did that experience change my thinking on the gifts of the Holy Spirit? Yes, and that was regardless of all I had been taught. Common sense no longer applied and scripture opened up for me like no time preceding that. We have among a former Baptist preacher named Chopper that also has been down this road, and knows the full power of God to bless us in all of God's provision. Many times we are the only ones holding us from experiencing God's best for us.
Are there times some use these manifestations of the Holy Spirit wrongly? I can near guarantee it, and the minds of even Christians can suffer wrong motives in their use to raise money near as bad as the world putting on a carnival. Do I believe most doing this are in Christ? Yes and just as Peter denied Christ three times, he needed to grow in grace and truth of our Lord Jesus Christ. We remain God's work in progress, and it is Him that will deliver us unto truth if allowed by us to do so.
Blessings in Christ Jesus.
O my very knowledgeable friend and fellow lover of Jesus the Son of God. My goodness, you are so very blessed by our Lord by His teaching you Truth so you can instruct those of us who desperately need Truth and not error. I have so much respect for your position with our Lord as a Teacher of God's Word in Truth.
You made this statement, "Many times we are the only ones holding us from experiencing God's best for us." WOW!! That blew me away! That is so true. I wish every Christian in the world could learn that simple Truth. Thank you!!
Chopper
Member
Eugene, you mentioned in post #5 "We have among a former Baptist preacher named Chopper that also has been down this road, and knows the full power of God to bless us in all of God's provision"
Oh my, what a life changing miracle that God favored me with. Prior to my Baptism in the Holy Spirit, as an independent, fundamental, Baptist Pastor, I preached against the gifts of the Holy Spirit. That was until God was tired of His servant shepherd teaching false doctrine. I won't go into the whole story and simply say, I had a time in my life that I needed direction in any future serving the Lord. One day, while in Florida, I surrendered my entire life to Jesus my Savior.
Without any human with me, all at once I was filled with the most awesome glow and sensation of warmth starting in my guts and spreading through out my whole body. I started to laugh and then cry, laugh and cry for four days. For a man who preached against the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, I got Baptized!!
My entire life was changed. Little by little, I confessed my sins of opposing the Holy Spirit, and like the Apostle Paul, God forgave me because I did it out of ignorance. What an awesome God we serve. Since then, I have experienced at one time or another, all the gifts that are listed in 1 Corinthians 12.
My only boast is in the Grace, Mercy, and forgiveness of our all powerful, Almighty God. To Him I give all praise to what He has accomplished in my life and ministry.
Oh my, what a life changing miracle that God favored me with. Prior to my Baptism in the Holy Spirit, as an independent, fundamental, Baptist Pastor, I preached against the gifts of the Holy Spirit. That was until God was tired of His servant shepherd teaching false doctrine. I won't go into the whole story and simply say, I had a time in my life that I needed direction in any future serving the Lord. One day, while in Florida, I surrendered my entire life to Jesus my Savior.
Without any human with me, all at once I was filled with the most awesome glow and sensation of warmth starting in my guts and spreading through out my whole body. I started to laugh and then cry, laugh and cry for four days. For a man who preached against the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, I got Baptized!!
My entire life was changed. Little by little, I confessed my sins of opposing the Holy Spirit, and like the Apostle Paul, God forgave me because I did it out of ignorance. What an awesome God we serve. Since then, I have experienced at one time or another, all the gifts that are listed in 1 Corinthians 12.
My only boast is in the Grace, Mercy, and forgiveness of our all powerful, Almighty God. To Him I give all praise to what He has accomplished in my life and ministry.
Thank you for that wonderful testimony my blessed friend and brother in Christ.
Cygnus
Member
I would say.....still relevant/prevalent today. Maybe not so prevalent. Then again books like Acts which mentions a lot of miracles happened over a large period of time and for the most part presents the "highlights". Acts also tells of a time when christianity was just getting started.
From what I hear miracles in third world countries are somewhat frequent. Perhaps someone can testify to that.
I have also heard of accounts where people were prayed for and healed. Maybe not so much in developed countries because we're taught miracles don't happen anymore....so we don't try.
smaller
Member
The Word Is Always Alive and Active.
Looking at people will not derive the sight.
Hebrews 4:
12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
The different way each gift is given is to be used in the ministry of Christ as in administrations, directors or delegates and only given to those who are led by the Holy Spirit. Different operations are for the function of the working body as each operations is given individually to each one by Gods Spirit for direction for what God purposes, not what man wants to control within the body of Christ, Ephesians 4:4-6.
Word of wisdom is for us to know the mind of Christ to allow his Spirit speak to us and through us not only to instruct others, but for us to know for a surety that we are remaining in Gods will. Word of knowledge is for us to grow into maturity of Gods word to be able to speak his word with all power and authority that comes by his Spirit for all truths, Proverbs 16:16; 1Corinthians 2:16; 2Timothy 2:15,16; 2Timothy 3:16,17.
Faith brings with it a good report that through the gift of faith we have hope and can see the evidence of faith in action just as those gathered together in the upper room saw the evidence when Jesus was taken up and the Holy Spirit came down and fell on all of them as their faith was increased through belief. Faith is also displayed by those who come for healing and believe that Jesus truly is who he said he was as it is not the person laying hands on you, but the Holy Spirit using the hands of that person to heal you, but you have to have faith to believe in your healing, Hebrews 11:1,2; Matthew 10:1; James 5:15; 1Peter 2:24, 25.
Working of miracles is God glorified through acknowledgement and amazement of the presence of God that he is the same yesterday, today and forever through his Spirit working through others as no one can speak evil and perform the signs of God on their own. It’s those signs that draw others to faith in Christ by actually seeing the power and authority Christ works through others as it is evidence through action. Prophecy is given to those prophets who speak through divine inspiration whom the will of God is expressed. Discerning of spirits is given to know what spirit is in action as there are two spirits that operate and one is the Spirit of truth and the other a spirit of error. Different kinds of tongue and interpretation of tongues means through all the different languages that are spoken in this world God will always give us interpretation of another language so we can all be as one in Gods word for teaching and learning, Mark 9:39; John 2:11; 1John 4:1-6.
Different parts make up the whole body through one common factor that is the Spirit of God and works in all of us and through all of us for the glory of the Lord. The body of Christ has many members and many different functions yet it remains one body in Christ. There is no gift that places one higher than another as God is no respecter of person, but chooses those who have the Spiritual capability and availability to lead his people with the same love and compassion he shows us.
Whether it be a formal Church setting behind four walls with pews and fancy stained glass windows or just a group of people gathered together in someone’s home sharing the word of God there has to be an order in all we do in Gods ministry so we will remain in Gods will for the purpose and time of his ministry. As an individual we can receive all the gifts of the Spirit within us, but can only use those gifts as the Spirit gives us unction to do so. We are all apostles and prophets that teach the word of God and perform miracles and heal the sick, but we do not do this of ourselves, but only by the Holy Spirit working in us and through us to reach out to the hearts of others. Let the Holy Spirit guide and direct your path and you will always be pleasing to the Father bringing glory and honor to his glorious name.
Word of wisdom is for us to know the mind of Christ to allow his Spirit speak to us and through us not only to instruct others, but for us to know for a surety that we are remaining in Gods will. Word of knowledge is for us to grow into maturity of Gods word to be able to speak his word with all power and authority that comes by his Spirit for all truths, Proverbs 16:16; 1Corinthians 2:16; 2Timothy 2:15,16; 2Timothy 3:16,17.
Faith brings with it a good report that through the gift of faith we have hope and can see the evidence of faith in action just as those gathered together in the upper room saw the evidence when Jesus was taken up and the Holy Spirit came down and fell on all of them as their faith was increased through belief. Faith is also displayed by those who come for healing and believe that Jesus truly is who he said he was as it is not the person laying hands on you, but the Holy Spirit using the hands of that person to heal you, but you have to have faith to believe in your healing, Hebrews 11:1,2; Matthew 10:1; James 5:15; 1Peter 2:24, 25.
Working of miracles is God glorified through acknowledgement and amazement of the presence of God that he is the same yesterday, today and forever through his Spirit working through others as no one can speak evil and perform the signs of God on their own. It’s those signs that draw others to faith in Christ by actually seeing the power and authority Christ works through others as it is evidence through action. Prophecy is given to those prophets who speak through divine inspiration whom the will of God is expressed. Discerning of spirits is given to know what spirit is in action as there are two spirits that operate and one is the Spirit of truth and the other a spirit of error. Different kinds of tongue and interpretation of tongues means through all the different languages that are spoken in this world God will always give us interpretation of another language so we can all be as one in Gods word for teaching and learning, Mark 9:39; John 2:11; 1John 4:1-6.
Different parts make up the whole body through one common factor that is the Spirit of God and works in all of us and through all of us for the glory of the Lord. The body of Christ has many members and many different functions yet it remains one body in Christ. There is no gift that places one higher than another as God is no respecter of person, but chooses those who have the Spiritual capability and availability to lead his people with the same love and compassion he shows us.
Whether it be a formal Church setting behind four walls with pews and fancy stained glass windows or just a group of people gathered together in someone’s home sharing the word of God there has to be an order in all we do in Gods ministry so we will remain in Gods will for the purpose and time of his ministry. As an individual we can receive all the gifts of the Spirit within us, but can only use those gifts as the Spirit gives us unction to do so. We are all apostles and prophets that teach the word of God and perform miracles and heal the sick, but we do not do this of ourselves, but only by the Holy Spirit working in us and through us to reach out to the hearts of others. Let the Holy Spirit guide and direct your path and you will always be pleasing to the Father bringing glory and honor to his glorious name.
JohnDB
Member
Before I say anything God does as He sees fit.
The coming of Christ in human form was foretold. It had over 1100 individual prophesies of every action and event Jesus was going to perform... Including after his Crucifixion.
One of the major signs of Jesus being there was "the year of our Lord's favor".
Then there were two major prophecy about the Temple. One Jesus declared himself that Daniel hinted at. And that was its destruction.
Either during the siege or during its destruction John wrote his revealing/apocolypse which picks up part of Ezekiel and goes beyond...covering several eras.
The formality with the prophesy of John's is unmistakable but....well don't want to digress down that path.
But the destruction of the Temple was the signifier of the end of an era. Including the signs and wonders surrounding the Messiah's appearance. (Look at the timing of the writing of the rest of the New Testament.)
Today God's miracles are still happening... All around us. But they are not for audience and stage. They are for nudges and pushes for a select few...for reasons known only by God. Mostly God "hides" and seems absentee. Because it's not faith if He is constantly intervening now is it?
There's two sides to miracles. One is the positive result but the other is the condemnation by not believing even after witnessing the miracle. (Corazin, Bethsaida, and Capernaum).
So...the era of signs and wonders is over. The revealing is complete. I don't expect to see any ever performed on stage. And if I did I would doubt their validity.
The coming of Christ in human form was foretold. It had over 1100 individual prophesies of every action and event Jesus was going to perform... Including after his Crucifixion.
One of the major signs of Jesus being there was "the year of our Lord's favor".
Then there were two major prophecy about the Temple. One Jesus declared himself that Daniel hinted at. And that was its destruction.
Either during the siege or during its destruction John wrote his revealing/apocolypse which picks up part of Ezekiel and goes beyond...covering several eras.
The formality with the prophesy of John's is unmistakable but....well don't want to digress down that path.
But the destruction of the Temple was the signifier of the end of an era. Including the signs and wonders surrounding the Messiah's appearance. (Look at the timing of the writing of the rest of the New Testament.)
Today God's miracles are still happening... All around us. But they are not for audience and stage. They are for nudges and pushes for a select few...for reasons known only by God. Mostly God "hides" and seems absentee. Because it's not faith if He is constantly intervening now is it?
There's two sides to miracles. One is the positive result but the other is the condemnation by not believing even after witnessing the miracle. (Corazin, Bethsaida, and Capernaum).
So...the era of signs and wonders is over. The revealing is complete. I don't expect to see any ever performed on stage. And if I did I would doubt their validity.
Not_Now.Soon
Member
I know there are a few on here who have told what God has done in their lives. Through faith and acting on the strength of their trust I have read at least a few who have told of miracles, hearings, even calming storms in nature. So with that said there are greater witnesses here then the witnessing I have. But make no mistake, I can tell anyone who doubts that miracles still happen, that they really do occure.
These are the things I can say, because they were in my life to see. When I was almost 2 years old, I had a head injury, and after the prayers and the care of doctors, I still remained in a coma for about 2 weeks. During that time my parents were advised by a friend who had a child recover after praying, to not limit God's hand, and only pray for a small recovery. Because of prayers in my family, and those in the community, I am thankful that God had made me as well as I am. Not too long after these events, in a check up appointment, I am told that a doctor who took MRI scans of my head told my mom that if he wasn't there for the scans, and say the kid there alive and well, he would say these are scans of a child who didn't make it.
There are several other events in my life that confirm to me that God answers prayers and sets his miracles and interventions in our lives. But for me, still being alive is the most miraculous to share.
I am not gifted as far as I am aware as being a holy man, or being filled with the Holy Spirit, any more then the next person. Maybe some day, as any of us should hope, God will grant us what He wishes us to have in us. For me I hope to someday have the gifts, or any of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. If for no other reason but to remove my anxious doubts of my place in God's eye's, but hopefully also to be of better service to God then the failure that I am now.
With that said, if even a man like me can be blessed to know the miracles of God, with so much less to deserve it or to show for it, then know that God is still making miracles. If you like, you can assume the same that I do. That God's influence and His intervention should be common enough to be seen by everyone at least once in their lives.
These are the things I can say, because they were in my life to see. When I was almost 2 years old, I had a head injury, and after the prayers and the care of doctors, I still remained in a coma for about 2 weeks. During that time my parents were advised by a friend who had a child recover after praying, to not limit God's hand, and only pray for a small recovery. Because of prayers in my family, and those in the community, I am thankful that God had made me as well as I am. Not too long after these events, in a check up appointment, I am told that a doctor who took MRI scans of my head told my mom that if he wasn't there for the scans, and say the kid there alive and well, he would say these are scans of a child who didn't make it.
There are several other events in my life that confirm to me that God answers prayers and sets his miracles and interventions in our lives. But for me, still being alive is the most miraculous to share.
I am not gifted as far as I am aware as being a holy man, or being filled with the Holy Spirit, any more then the next person. Maybe some day, as any of us should hope, God will grant us what He wishes us to have in us. For me I hope to someday have the gifts, or any of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. If for no other reason but to remove my anxious doubts of my place in God's eye's, but hopefully also to be of better service to God then the failure that I am now.
With that said, if even a man like me can be blessed to know the miracles of God, with so much less to deserve it or to show for it, then know that God is still making miracles. If you like, you can assume the same that I do. That God's influence and His intervention should be common enough to be seen by everyone at least once in their lives.
Never say you are not gifted as you have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit the moment you humbled yourself and asked Jesus to be your Lord and Savior. God has a calling on all of us as being a witness of His mercy and grace as we share that witness of our own testimonies to the world as you have here in your post. There is no one greater than another as God is no respecter of person as we are all one in Christ and all have a witness with our own individual testimonies. There is no one that is a holy man as only God is Holy, but we are indwelled with His Holy Spirit that teaches us all truths as He works in us and through us as we let the light of Christ shine through us as a witness to His mercy and grace.
Edward
2024 Supporter
[QUOTE="Chopper, post: 1176577, member: 5957"...Since the Church has never attained to the Scriptural standard set up by it's Head Jesus the Son of God, we still need them. It is my opinion that even today, the Church of Christ Jesus is weak and powerless because the offices of Apostle and Prophet are missing. Many of our churches boast of being "independent". The Pastor answers to no one but himself. Sometimes he listens to his Elders but the final say is him alone. Many churches have been ruined by these dictators who call themselves pastors. Baptists are, IMO, the worst example and I'm a Baptist
I have been in churches that claim all the gifts of the Holy Spirit, a lady stands up and gives a prophesy about how wonderful the Assembly is and God is pleased, and so on, and so on. That's garbage!! If a genuine Prophet came to that exact church, he would rip it apart and expose a multitude of sins in the Pastor and people. All but a very few Pastors would let that Prophet in HIS church. SoSo my Brother and new friend, The gifts of 1 Corinthians 12, and the Leaders of Ephesians 4 are desperately needed to day to revive the Church of Christ Jesus and bring it back to what Jesus the Son of God intended when He died for the forgiveness of our sins and to establish His Church for us to fellowship in Truth, and to worship His worthy, worthy, worthy
[/QUOTE]
Personally, I think that it's easy to see the fingerprints of God everywhere. God is alive and well and performs miracles every day somewhere.
The internet is chock full of testimonies. They can't all be lying, lol. People find it hard to believe that God does miracles still because they don't see miracles in their own church.
The church needs help, and I suspect that no man can fix the church. They simply can't do it. The hour is late, and the stage set...for anti-christ. A real man of God proudly couldn't get a job at a church nowadays, lol.
God is going to have to do it. I believe He will do it and even now, is moving within the church, and all manner of healings and supernatural events are occurring. Most of these video testimonies are from outside the U.S. I notice, and that's a sad testament for our churches here. I've witnessed or been the recipient of several miracles and have testified of the same here. So it's easy for me to believe in them.
I think it's coming again to the churches, that the dead will be raised, people will die, get healed, and all kinds of signs. Church would be exciting then, huh?! What would you do if a spiritual chariot of fire, complete with spiritual horse appeared near the pulpit one Sunday, as the pastor was beginning to preach?! Lol
(Dang it. It didn't quote right, Sorry)
I have been in churches that claim all the gifts of the Holy Spirit, a lady stands up and gives a prophesy about how wonderful the Assembly is and God is pleased, and so on, and so on. That's garbage!! If a genuine Prophet came to that exact church, he would rip it apart and expose a multitude of sins in the Pastor and people. All but a very few Pastors would let that Prophet in HIS church. SoSo my Brother and new friend, The gifts of 1 Corinthians 12, and the Leaders of Ephesians 4 are desperately needed to day to revive the Church of Christ Jesus and bring it back to what Jesus the Son of God intended when He died for the forgiveness of our sins and to establish His Church for us to fellowship in Truth, and to worship His worthy, worthy, worthy
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Personally, I think that it's easy to see the fingerprints of God everywhere. God is alive and well and performs miracles every day somewhere.
The internet is chock full of testimonies. They can't all be lying, lol. People find it hard to believe that God does miracles still because they don't see miracles in their own church.
The church needs help, and I suspect that no man can fix the church. They simply can't do it. The hour is late, and the stage set...for anti-christ. A real man of God proudly couldn't get a job at a church nowadays, lol.
God is going to have to do it. I believe He will do it and even now, is moving within the church, and all manner of healings and supernatural events are occurring. Most of these video testimonies are from outside the U.S. I notice, and that's a sad testament for our churches here. I've witnessed or been the recipient of several miracles and have testified of the same here. So it's easy for me to believe in them.
I think it's coming again to the churches, that the dead will be raised, people will die, get healed, and all kinds of signs. Church would be exciting then, huh?! What would you do if a spiritual chariot of fire, complete with spiritual horse appeared near the pulpit one Sunday, as the pastor was beginning to preach?! Lol
(Dang it. It didn't quote right, Sorry)
Edward, they refuse to see the fingerprints of God as most churches have been taken over by that Jezebel spirit and neglect the greater things of God as they are neither hot or cold, but sold out to those things of the world instead. People no longer look up to those things from above as they are Pastor followers instead of followers of Christ.
Edward
2024 Supporter
There was a testimony I heard, a guy was in church and they called for everyone to greet their Brothers and Sisters thatwere there. This guy sees what He thinks is a homeless man sitting in the back, scruffy clothes, sitting alone...he approached the man and put his hand out and said, it's good to see you here today Brother...and the man looked up at him and smiled...and it was Jesus. Of course he freaked out. When he got another Brother's attention to show him, they looked, but He was not to be found. He had disappeared.
smaller
Member
The guy should have immediately sat down and had a visit. I've heard so many accounts similar to the above in the charismatic camps I became somewhat immune to them, as most of them were a bunch of sensationalist hyper emotional baloney.
If people want to see things they usually do.
As far as Gods Activity goes, YES, God is quite entirely Active upon the earth, today and every moment, in the NOW. But not as most suspect. The "workings" of the Word have not changed since day 1 of man in the Garden.
The law for example will still prompt lusts to enter the heart. Does anyone see that as a MIRACLE? It is, in the opposing sense of the Word. The law still prompts SIN actions in the world. Does anyone doubt their own eyes on this count? No. It's so obvious no one could miss it. And yes, this is a RESISTING action of sin and Gods Word, in the world, readily apparent to anyone.
Does God still do miracles of the good sort? Of course. Mercy still shows up here or there.
Were there more good fruit in the church collectively, we might see a lot of good things. That time will come, imho. But not by power or might, but by His Spirit.
The more interesting workings of the Lord are internal, not external. So how can anyone say there are no miracles or there is cessation when people are added to His Kingdom, daily? That alone makes the angels sing!