Biblical evidence that Peter the Apostle has never been in Rome nor the first bishop of Rome

[Vinny37]

Catholicism evolved from the Roman Church. A group of Roman Senator's who wanted to conquer the known world, and control the "common people" as the pharisees did control the Tribes of Israel; with the one true God.

For the "historian"; God does record everything. And those who serve God in commanding the Heavenly Host; are given whatever information God deems appropriate for their task.

Ah, I guess that God, whom you say is the true one (perhaps among many gods less or none, true), has simply revealed to you directly the facts of history on this one. Since he has not written it in a book (until you take up pen?), I cannot verify what he has doubtless given you. I wonder if he told you the names of these senators? Just curious.

 

[donadams]

I know this is controversial and Catholicism teaches that Peter the Apostle was the first bishop of Rome and the founder of the Roman Church. The teaching of Catholic historians tells us that Simon Peter went to Rome at the same time as Simon Magus in order to thwart his evils. This was during the reign of Claudius and is about 41 AD to 54 AD. After successfully combating the Magus, they tell us, Peter assumed the Roman bishopric and ruled it until the Neronian persecutions of 68 A.D., during which Peter was supposed to have been crucified upside down on Vatican hill. Looking at the bible though this claim is nowhere to be found. That is:

1. Christ was commissioned by Peter to be apostle to the Jews and Paul to the Gentiles. If anything, Paul should have been the first bishop of Rome. From Galatians 2:7 "On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised..."

2. We are told by Paul in Romans 1:11 "For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift, to strengthen you." Paul wrote this around 57AD to 59 AD yet we told by Catholic historians that Peter had done this imparting of spiritual gifts a while ago during the reign of Claudius Caesar.

3. Paul states in Romans 15:20 "and thus I make it my ambition to preach the gospel, not where Christ has already been named, lest I build on someone else's foundation. Well, if Peter had already been in Rome then Paul had to have a confrontation with Peter about this which makes no sense.

4. At the end of Romans epistle, Paul greets a lot of individuals, yet the name of Peter is not mentioned even once. That is very odd!

5. When Paul was sent to Rome after 60 AD we have from Acts 28:15 "And the brothers there, when they heard about us, came as far as the forum of Appius and Three Taverns to meet us. On seeing them, Paul thanked God and took courage. Again, no mention of Peter. Very odd!

6. When Paul arrived in Rome he gathered the local leaders of the Jews from Acts 28:17. From Acts 28:22-23 it is obvious that the Jews had not heard of Christ until then which is odd since if Peter the Apostle to the Jews had been in Rome he would have done that.

7. After the rejection of the Jewish elders, Paul remained in his own hired house for two years. During that time he wrote Epistles to the Ephesians, the Philippians, the Colossians, Philemon, and to the Hebrews. And while Paul mentions others as being in Rome during that period, he nowhere mentions Peter. Again very odd!

8. With the expiration of Paul’s two year’s imprisonment, he was released. But about four years later (near 65 A.D.), he was again sent back a prisoner to Rome. This time he had to appear before the throne of Caesar and was sentenced to die. Paul describes these circumstances at length in 2 Timothy. In regard to his trial, notice what Paul said in 2 Timothy 4:16 "At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men [in Rome] forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge." This means, if we believe the Catholics, that Peter forsook Paul, for they tell us Peter was very much present at Rome during this time! Very odd!

9. In 2 Timothy 4:11 it is stated "Luke along is with me..." Where on earth is Peter?

Conclusion is obvious: Peter the Apostle to the circumcised has never been in Rome. Therefore, the foundation of Catholic Church is non-existent. Talk about building a house on sand.

1 pet 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

Sound like Jews to you?

1 pet 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

Babylon was code for Rome!
The pagan Roman Empire referred to in rev 17
Thanks

 

[donadams]

It doesn’t matter whether Peter was in Rome or not. The question addresses who is the head of the Church.
In other words, who is the head of the body of Christ?
The analogy of the Church as a body means the Church, like a body, has only one head. And that one head is Christ.
To claim that the body of Christ requires another head is false.
That would mean that the teaching of Christ is insufficient to salvation. It claims that another head is required to reasonably explain what is required for salvation.
They therefore exalt themselves as head over the real head and body of Christ. They therefore exalt their own ideas of salvation above those taught by the true head as if the true head has not shown you what is true.

Christ is the only head but he ascended to heaven!
Christ is king but no king administers his own kingdom!
1 pet 5: 4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

Chief shepherd!
So there are other shepherds who are still hear on earth, pastors who care for our souls!

 

[Follower Of Christ]

1 pet 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

Sound like Jews to you?

1 pet 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

Babylon was code for Rome!
The pagan Roman Empire referred to in rev 17
Thanks

Babylon in 1 Peter 5:13 is the location where Peter was that is a dead city somewhere in Asia.

Babylon in Revelation 17 is Satan's dark kingdom on Earth over mankind. It's already judged to be dead and defeated by Christ during the battle of Armageddon. It does include pagan Rome with its current practices but that's not all.

You got the code all wrong donadams.

Please though let's not get caught up in some dialectical exchange with thesis antithesis and synthesis. I really have no time for that.

Blessings!
Follower of Christ

 

[Follower Of Christ]

Christ is the only head but he ascended to heaven!
Christ is king but no king administers his own kingdom!
1 pet 5: 4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

Chief shepherd!
So there are other shepherds who are still hear on earth, pastors who care for our souls!

Near end times I fear for anyone who becomes a sheep under the tutelage of the shepherds in Zechariah 11. Please read that.

 

[donadams]

In this Laodicean era we are encouraged by Christ to leave organized religion and seek Christ individually. Popes, ministers, pastors etc just cut us off from Christ who is the head of the church.

I made this post not to support any other denominations claims. I belong to no denomination and worship Christ and God on my own. In the future I shall have fellowship with other Christians maybe in a home, or nature etc.

I posted this more of a reminder to many that the Catholic Church has a foundation built on sand and it is evolving more towards a religion supporting a one world government. For more please read "Keys Of This Blood" by Malachi Martin. I leave it up to the reader to conclude whether Catholic Church is the Harlot Church of the Book of Revelation.

What? Wow!
Leave the new and eternal covenant?
You are then lost!

To be in Christ is to be in the church:
To be in the church by faith and baptismal regeneration is to be in Christ: Christ and His church are united. Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32

1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church.
Gal 3:27 baptismal regeneration is to put on Christ.

I hope you can see that the Bible shows the ark of Noah as a type of the church,
Only those on the ark are saved, all other drown.
There is only one ark.
God sealed them in the ark.

Only one church founded by Christ with the authority of Christ Matt 16:18-19 Jn 16:13 on Peter and the apostles eph 2:20 all other are sects of the tradition of men.

 

[donadams]

The Ark of Salvation!

The church is founded by Christ and the sacraments are instituted by Christ for the salvation of all men!

The church and Jesus are one: acts 9:4 Jn 15:1-5 eph 5:32

The church and the sacraments are necessary for and the means of salvation and the life of grace!

Redemption: Eph 2
Justification: Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 Acts 2:38
Sanctification: Jn 1:16 Jn 10:10 Jn 15:5
Salvation: Matt 24:13 Rom 13:11

The body of Christ:
1 Corinthians 12:27

The one true church:
Matt 16:18 Jn 10:16

The household of faith:
Gal 6:10

The house of God:
1 Tim 3:15

The church of the living God:
1 Tim 3:15

The kingdom of God on earth:
Dan 2:44 Matt 6:33 Matt 16:18 Matt 12:28 Mk 1:15 Jn 3:3-5 Acts 8:12 1 Cor 4:20 Col 4:11 1 Thes 2:12 Rev 1:9 12:10

The new and eternal covenant:
The one fold of Christ:

The new covenant body of Christ church is an ark, the ark of Peter, the ark of Noah was a type, all those outside the ark died, and all those outside the church die spiritually, there is no life outside of Noah’s ark and there is no spiritual life or salvation outside of the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles!

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

 

[Follower Of Christ]

What? Wow!
Leave the new and eternal covenant?
You are then lost!

To be in Christ is to be in the church:
To be in the church by faith and baptismal regeneration is to be in Christ: Christ and His church are united. Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32

1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church.
Gal 3:27 baptismal regeneration is to put on Christ.

I hope you can see that the Bible shows the ark of Noah as a type of the church,
Only those on the ark are saved, all other drown.
There is only one ark.
God sealed them in the ark.

Only one church founded by Christ with the authority of Christ Matt 16:18-19 Jn 16:13 on Peter and the apostles eph 2:20 all other are sects of the tradition of men.

We shall see on the Day of Judgement who is lost and who is not. I follow no man and I urge no one to follow me.

I take all of bible very seriously and have studied it thoroughly. I am not on a crusade to save people for The Father from John 6:44 draws us at the time of his choosing. We repent of our sins, believe the gospel of Christ and are sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

It's that simple. I follow Christ in his simplicity through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

There is a true church on Earth but it's not the Catholic Church or other denominations. I find it fascinating that in China Catholic Church is state regulated while many believers attend house churches with no hierarchy but all sheep led by one shepherd Christ. Think about that donadams. Where is the true church in China?

Blessings!
Follower Of Christ

 

[donadams]

Babylon in 1 Peter 5:13 is the location where Peter was that is a dead city somewhere in Asia.

Babylon in Revelation 17 is Satan's dark kingdom on Earth over mankind. It's already judged to be dead and defeated by Christ during the battle of Armageddon. It does include pagan Rome with its current practices but that's not all.

You got the code all wrong donadams.

Please though let's not get caught up in some dialectical exchange with thesis antithesis and synthesis. I really have no time for that.

Blessings!
Follower of Christ

What’s the city with seven hills?

 

[donadams]

We shall see on the Day of Judgement who is lost and who is not. I follow no man and I urge no one to follow me.

I take all of bible very seriously and have studied it thoroughly. I am not on a crusade to save people for The Father from John 6:44 draws us at the time of his choosing. We repent of our sins, believe the gospel of Christ and are sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

It's that simple. I follow Christ in his simplicity through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

There is a true church on Earth but it's not the Catholic Church or other denominations. I find it fascinating that in China Catholic Church is state regulated while many believers attend house churches with no hierarchy but all sheep led by one shepherd Christ. Think about that donadams. Where is the true church in China?

Blessings!
Follower Of Christ

No man?

I really wonder have you ever read scripture?

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...


John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Lk 22:29
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Acts 16:17
The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

No man?

I really wonder have you ever read scripture?

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...


John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Lk 22:29
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Acts 16:17
The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

What seven hills?

From Revelation 17:9 "This calls for a mind of wisdom; the seven heads are seven mountains (NOT HILLS) on which the woman is seated."

If you have a mind of wisdom, you know what the seven mountains are.

Now if you don't mind, I am going to ignore you from now on. Sure, I have never read scripture, I have been waiting all my life for you to come along and show me the way. Woe is me that I cannot hear you at such precious moment!

See ya on the other side friend! You can keep posting as much as you want on this thread and others, but you are going to get radio silence from me. I am all about love and hope and faith but as Paul says to Timothy in 1 Timothy 6:20 "O Timothy guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called "knowledge"."

I reached my limits with you donadams. Peace to you but let me mind my business in my peace too!

 

[Vinny37]

1 pet 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

Sound like Jews to you?

1 pet 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

Babylon was code for Rome!
The pagan Roman Empire referred to in rev 17
Thanks

I neither affirm nor disaffirm that Peter ever visited Rome. Theologically I don’t buy into popery, but can see advantages and disadvantages of such a system, and ‌both good and bad people, non-Christians and Christians, taking that seat. Control over others is a tricky thing. I have happily worshipped in Catholic churches, though they’re not my first choice.

But as to 1 Peter, I don’t think Peter’s placement is clear. On 1 Pt.5:13, unlike Revelation this was a letter, not a semi-apocalyptic where code was the name of the game and Babylon would have been slated as the Dark Enemy. As Karen Jobes (1 Peter (BECNT) 2005) put it, ‘she’ might simply refer to Peter’s local assembly, and having been self-exiled from Jerusalem (Ac.12:17), he might well have likened the church in general (1 Pt.1:1—a spiritual diaspora: Jerome/Augustine) and his own exile in particular, as akin to the Babylonian Captivity, howbeit exile, scattering, not for sin but for righteousness. All Christians whether ethnic Jews or ethnic Gentiles, were as foreigners to the fallen world (κοσμος), and dissipated lifestyle had existed both sides of the ethnic divide—internal evidence does not preclude either side, so might include both. Did Peter write from Rome. As Origen once said, God only knows.