Bible Study Bind The Strong Man.

[for_his_glory]

We can read here in these simple forums the rejection of His kingdom.. Today many folks are still looking for the human idea of His Kingdom
fancey thrones and control over others ... He tells us plainly His Kingdom is not of this world yet so many denominations and individuals push for Him to set on a chair humans have built .. He lowered Himself once to become our Sacrifice ... Still we want to bring Him down to our level .. To leave setting on the right hand of the Father to set in human throne..

Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

We have been given the pattern over and over... the physical God says this
1Co_15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Many try to see God and His kingdom through a carnal mind mentality as something we can literally see before us that is materialized, but God told Moses in Exodus 33:20 that no one can see His face and live. Scripture can only liken those things of God, but not the Spiritual reality of His kingdom where He sits on a throne.

 

[Jim Parker]

Depends how how you see them. I'd see them as Paul saw himself in 2 Cor. 12:7.

So what scripture clearly says depends on what your personal bias says it says.

See 2 Cor. 12:7 for an example of Paul forgiven, the messenger of Satan in Paul's flesh NOT forgiven. Believers who read out of one eye won't can get get there and never will in this life.

A "messenger of Satan is not the same as blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
(At least, not on this planet.)

 

[Chopper]

So what?! Does that mean I don't think they are saved REGARDLESS? I think they shall be saved, REGARDLESS. God saves believing sinners, emphasis, sinners. No we should not sin, but there is no escaping the conclusions that we all DO sin, particularly in THOUGHT. 1 Tim. 1:15, Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20 and Mark 7:21-23



It is very practical sight for Christian Living and "making PEACE" between believers. It is the same position I see YOU with so I don't end up falling in the pit of condemning you or any other believer to eternal hell. That is the sight of my pleasure. I don't care if anyone else sees it or not. I see it for the good of my own heart.

There is an entire entity class to view for ADVERSE JUDGMENTS that are not "believers." Nor are they "mankind." That's kinda the general point.



No, it's a much more simple premise. They are liars. I sat under these phony practitioners for many years, buying their lies. I don't speak from ignorance. No, God does not "guarantee" a multifold return of CASH to anyone who pays these people. That is a PONZI SCHEME. Do some people get healed? Maybe so. I've never witnessed it so I can't say.

I suspect many more people are healed by the earnest prayers of common believers, not performed on stages for cash and that devils are more than likely to be bound on the street than on the stage.

The "strongman" is Satan and his minions. Chopper may not have mentioned it yet or see it that way, but that is what the strongman refers to.

Matthew 12:
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Jesus did TWO basic "exercises" with the demonic realm.

The first exercise is REVEALING.

The second, casting out.

But Jesus did NOT cast out every devil in man that He encountered. IN the religious pharisees for example, He let them STEW in their own broth. John 8:44. Had He chosen to do otherwise He certainly could have.

"The "strongman" is Satan and his minions" I may not have said it, BUT I BELIEVE IT, smaller!!

I like this statement of yours very much, "I suspect many more people are healed by the earnest prayers of common believers, not performed on stages for cash and that devils are more than likely to be bound on the street than on the stage. Bravo, good point.

 

[Chopper]

Remember guys this is Bible study and not a free for all debate... admin

Thank you Reba. I was just about ready to ask those fellows to cool it. I hate it when one of my threads become, as you say, "a free for all" debate.

 

[Chopper]

Emotions can be deceiving at times for after all the hype we can still be left empty and lack the knowledge we so desperately need. In the beginning for myself accepting Jesus as my Lord and Savior the excitement of the Pentecostal service was so emotional within the music, lifting of hands, laying on of hands etc. ect. but once I left that atmosphere I was still empty and void of understanding Gods word. It's only when we study for ourselves that which is given to us by other teachers can we discern the truth or error in the message given, 1John 4:1-6

Your post is soooo true Glory Girl. Every single morning that I wake up, get myself a cup of coffee. I then settle into having that coffee, like Reba, with my Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus. I start with personal prayer, presenting my self as a living sacrifice, surrendering to Jesus and His Spirit.

Now I'm ready and prepared to study God's Word with spiritual excitement. Sometimes I hurry thru prayer just so I can get into the Word.... My Bad....Look, we can hear many messages from gifted Teachers, but I believe, like you said, when we study the Word for ourselves, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, that's when we really learn.

I can't tell you how many times I have to back up and re-read something. Being a listener of a message doesn't afford me that privilege.

I just wanted to re-emphasize studying the Bible for ourselves. I feel that the more we study both Old & New Covenants (Testaments) we will be better prepared each day to face the victories, temptations, and disappointments. Remember, I try very hard not to suggest doing a certain thing if I don't do it myself.

Study the Word for myself? You bet I do!

 

[smaller]

So what scripture clearly says depends on what your personal bias says it says.

Scripture is interesting to me, personally, because it defines the universal human condition regarding sin and presents that there is an entire world of very bad actors, UNSEEN, that operate in the flesh that are NOT the person(s). Confirmed by Mark 4:15, Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, 1 John 3:8.

There are many who mitigate or diminish this matter, but it is a reality nevertheless. Not my call if people see it. Some will.

A "messenger of Satan is not the same as blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
(At least, not on this planet.)

When Satan spoke from Peter's lips who would you look at to judge that matter? Satan or Peter? To me that answer is obvious. Same principle. I would extend that further to say those who blame/accuse Peter are not able to see things as they should, but are suffering under the same internal influences themselves. So, maybe a wake up call to some and an incitement call to others.

The Sword has 2 Edges and they are exceptionally real. The same Word of God that blesses man provokes Satan and his minions to "enter mankinds heart" and resist. Believe it or not, it wouldn't matter to me. I know this to be a fact.

And though it's probably one of the most obvious presentations in the scriptures "believers" still don't get it. Which speaks to the level of "sleepiness" in the body of Christ.

 

[Jim Parker]

When Satan spoke from Peter's lips who would you look at to judge that matter? Satan or Peter?

Peter (or any other human being) is responsible for what he says, not Satan. No one is a puppet of Satan that only does as Satan has him do. Each person is responsible for his own actions. Otherwise, sin is a meaningless word and man has never sinned because he wasn't responsible for anything he ever did.

I'm reminded of Flip WIlson's comic routine character, Geraldine, who would say, "The Devil made me do it." Of course, the devil doesn't make anyone do anything. He entices, seduces, tempts, cajoles, lies, tricks, and uses any other trick he can think of, but, in the end, the one who sins is responsible for the sin he does and no one else.

iakov the fool

 

[smaller]

Peter (or any other human being) is responsible for what he says, not Satan. No one is a puppet of Satan that only does as Satan has him do. Each person is responsible for his own actions. Otherwise, sin is a meaningless word and man has never sinned because he wasn't responsible for anything he ever did.

Satan and Peter are not "the same" entities and that's pretty much all there is to this conversation. You can try to make them the same but it ain't gonna happen.

 

[Jim Parker]

Satan and Peter are not "the same" entities and that's pretty much all there is to this conversation

Of course they are different entities. I never suggested otherwise.

You can try to make them the same but it ain't gonna happen.

I never tried to make them the same.
I said that Peter is responsible for what Peter does.
What do you not understand about that statement that you could come up with such an absurd conclusion?

 

[smaller]

Of course they are different entities. I never suggested otherwise.

I never tried to make them the same.
I said that Peter is responsible for what Peter does.
What do you not understand about that statement that you could come up with such an absurd conclusion?

From your own lips:

Peter (or any other human being) is responsible for what he says, not Satan.

When Jesus addressed Satan speaking from Peter Jesus was speaking to Satan. You're trying to pin the Satan tail on Peter. That won't fit or compute.

 

[Jim Parker]

When Jesus addressed Satan speaking from Peter Jesus was speaking to Satan. You're trying to pin the Satan tail on Peter. That won't fit or compute.

Jesus didn't address Satan; He addressed Peter.
Mat 16:23 KJV But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Mar 8:33 KJV But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
Drop the snarks reba

iakov the fool

 

[smaller]

Jesus didn't address Satan; He addressed Peter.

Ya really think so?

Mat 16:23 KJV But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Mar 8:33 KJV But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
Read your inspired, inerrant, sola scriptura; then get a dictionary and look up "metaphor."

iakov the fool

I guess if we make PETER in big red letters and ignore SATAN by making that entity merely a METAPHOR, then your quest is fulfilled. Unfortunately for your metaphor SATAN does happen to be a REAL ENTITY and that ENTITY IS FOUND IN MAN.

But I'm always surprised how many people can't see the obvious. I wonder unto WHOM I might look to for that kind of blindness? edited reba

 

[Jim Parker]

Reply to a deleted post reba

 

[Malachi]

When Satan spoke from Peter's lips who would you look at to judge that matter? Satan or Peter?

The more reasonable explanation would be that Satan influenced Peter's thoughts in this incident. Peter was simply thinking humanistically. In his mind, it would be degrading for the Divine Son of God to be taken captive by evil men and nailed to the cross. But for Satan, the cross was his destruction, so he influenced Peter to discourage Jesus from going there. Satan did not take possession of Peter, since Peter has already confessed that Jesus is God.

 

[Jim Parker]

The more reasonable explanation would be that Satan influenced Peter's thoughts in this incident. Peter was simply thinking humanistically. In his mind, it would be degrading for the Divine Son of God to be taken captive by evil men and nailed to the cross. But for Satan, the cross was his destruction, so he influenced Peter to discourage Jesus from going there. Satan did not take possession of Peter, since Peter has already confessed that Jesus is God.

I believe you have nailed it.

iakov the fool

 

[reba]

This quick reminder will be posted in about every thread here in The Bible Study forum through out the day.. ..have some fun be a bit silly while remembering where and why you are here.
Bible Study
A forum for Bible study discussions.
This is not a debate forum.
Can we please leave our egos outside... admin

 

[smaller]

The more reasonable explanation would be that Satan influenced Peter's thoughts in this incident.

When the Legion of demons spoke from the man possessed who spoke? Legion or the man? Same principle.

Satan fwiw the last time I checked christian theology is a real entity. Not a metaphor. Not a humanistic thought.

It just amazes me how people miss the obvious and read in anything BUT Satan.

 

[Malachi]

When the Legion of demons spoke from the man possessed who spoke? Legion or the man? Same principle.

No. Actually this is apples and oranges. On one hand we have the leading apostle of Christ exhibiting a temporary lapse of judgement. On the other hand we have a man possessed by a legion of demons, needing to be delivered, since he was under their control.

 

[smaller]

No. Actually this is apples and oranges. On one hand we have the leading apostle of Christ exhibiting a temporary lapse of judgement. On the other hand we have a man possessed by a legion of demons, needing to be delivered, since he was under their control.

Maybe I'm missing the obvious but I'm fairly certain that Satan is addressed in those accounts of Peter and it would even seem that Satan was speaking from Peter's lips. IF this wasn't the case there was no need for Jesus to drag Satan into the picture.

 

[Chopper]

An interesting controversy here fellows. I have a deep respect for both of you as you discuss Matthew 16:23. My take on this is, Satan was making another attempt to persuade Jesus thru Peter's love and concern for Jesus' welfare, to stop Jesus from going to the Cross.

Satan doesn't care who he uses to cause someone to sin against another. If Satan could use one of the inner three of Christ's special disciples, Jesus just might consider what Peter had just told Jesus, "Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee." Now Jesus knew the heart of Peter and knew that Peter loved Him.

Therefore, I don't believe that Jesus directed His rebuke at Peter, He rebuked Satan for using Peter. Jesus had asked Peter to "follow" Him. If Peter had taken the statement to "Get behind Him" seriously, he probably would have left in sadness. No, I believe Peter knew Jesus was referring to Satan to "take a hike."

Just my thoughts guys. Love you Two.