Bible Study Bind The Strong Man.

[reba]

Remember guys this is Bible study and not a free for all debate... admin

 

[Sinthesis]

That's hardly the point. The point is made by Peter in 2 Pet 2:1-22.

If you want to apply 2 Pet 2 to Benny Hinn, then are you sure Benny denies The Lord, and what are Benny's damnable heresies?

 

[Sinthesis]

The context is clear, and would not allow for this interpretation. Satan's kingdom was in view, with the blatantly false accusation that Christ was involved with communicating with the prince of devils, rather than destroying his kingdom. Christ had to set the false accusers straight.

I believe the context shows that the Pharisees accused Jesus of utilizing the power of evil to do this particular good. Jesus did set the false accusers straight.

 

[Chopper]

The "strong man" is Satan, his "goods" are his evil spirits and their evil deeds, and his "house" is the Kingdom of Darkness. Christ came to "destroy... the devil" (Heb 2:14), which He certainly did through His death, burial, and resurrection.

As to assessing the ministries of others, we are to examine their words and deeds in the light of Scripture. We have been warned that in the last days there will be many false teachers, fasle prophets, and false Christ's. Benny Hinn is certainly a false teacher, and should be exposed for that. There are many others among those on radio and television.

You're right my friend. Benny Hinn was a poor example to use, my bad. Billy Graham would have been better. Some legalists have bad mouthed Dr. Graham.

 

[Chopper]

If you don't mind, I would like to present a thought on this that does not relate to teaching the scripture or false prophets, but I think will illustrate a point about our own perceptions. As I was driving home today, I was passing through a certain area of town that is known for prostitution, and as I was driving by I happened to see two girls, one on each side of the street, both dressed in high heals and very short skirts and skin tight shirts; both very slutty looking. So naturally my first thought is that these must be prostitutes, which makes is very easy to be judgemental of them for their lifestyle.

A few minutes after I had passed through the area, a thought occurred to me that maybe they weren't prostitutes after all, maybe they were law enforcement dressed up to look the part in order to trap some johns. How would I begin to know the difference judging by their character as they appeared to me an the side of the street?


There is a scripture that says if they want to believe a lie, then the Lord would send them strong delusion so that they would believe the lie.
So if it be the will of the Lord to rise up a false teacher to feed them the strong delusion he has promised them, then it is the Lord's will that it be so. And if then it is the Lord's will, are they not justified as well?

Justified in what way? Justified as a false teacher? Justified as being in a strong delusion? Please, I want to understand.

 

[ezrider]

Justified in what way? Justified as a false teacher? Justified as being in a strong delusion? Please, I want to understand.

Honestly Chopper, I think you already do understand. It is the Lord who justifies.

We must be very careful when we criticize a person's ministry and calling it false and of the devil. I've heard folk say that about Benny Hinn. Be careful!! We won't know the Truth until Jesus shows us. Here is a verse to remember....

If we don't have sufficient information about a ministry or person, we can't really see into that persons heart. Therefore no judging until Jesus reveals Truth.

I completely agree with those statements. You used a good example, but then let others dissuade you from that position. Why is that? Did Jesus just reveal the truth of it, so now its a poor example to use?

You're right my friend. Benny Hinn was a poor example to use, my bad. Billy Graham would have been better. Some legalists have bad mouthed Dr. Graham.

If it is not given to the Son to know the day or the hour, why should we expect to know the truth of another man's ministry? We would be in a better starting place if we just accepted that we are all false teachers, and sought to understand that a little better. But if a man feels called of God, and believes in his heart that he is doing the will of God, then to him he is doing the will of God. When the Lord said that he would separate the wheat from the tares, or that he would separate the sheep from the goats, do you suppose it the same "voice" that calls to them both? But if one voice calls to the sheep, and a different voice calls to the goats, are they not both doing the will of God? Is it not the Lord who brings the division?

 

[Chopper]

Honestly Chopper, I think you already do understand. It is the Lord who justifies.






I completely agree with those statements. You used a good example, but then let others dissuade you from that position. Why is that? Did Jesus just reveal the truth of it, so now its a poor example to use?



If it is not given to the Son to know the day or the hour, why should we expect to know the truth of another man's ministry? We would be in a better starting place if we just accepted that we are all false teachers, and sought to understand that a little better. But if a man feels called of God, and believes in his heart that he is doing the will of God, then to him he is doing the will of God. When the Lord said that he would separate the wheat from the tares, or that he would separate the sheep from the goats, do you suppose it the same "voice" that calls to them both? But if one voice calls to the sheep, and a different voice calls to the goats, are they not both doing the will of God? Is it not the Lord who brings the division?

To answer your question, I switched from Hinn to Graham because I know more about Dr. Graham than Benny Hinn. I don't like to make a judgment about someone of whom I'm not familiar with. Jesus convicts me of many things. Sometimes I'm better off keeping my unclean lips closed until a coal from His Altar touches my lips and the love that the Law and Prophets hang on completes it's mission.

O woe is me, I'm a man of unclean lips in the flesh. It is only as the Nature of Christ Jesus crushes my sinful flesh will anything be said that has eternal benefit.

 

[smaller]

I witnessed to a "preacher" a few years back. Will never forget it. He was (quite futilely and vainly) trying to sucker me into his personal "cult for cash" christianity deal. The "deal of the day in the realm."

I told him that I couldn't belong. That it was impossible for me to belong. Oh, why is that? sez he. I told him I can't belong to a church that isn't honest. He says, well, we are honest!!! I said really? I don't think so. (yes, I was setting him up) He says WHY?

I said, from my sight of scriptures, all people, even believers, have sin dwelling in their flesh that they can not rid themselves of no matter how good they act. Romans 7:17-20 (yes, these are permanently etched in my heart). That all people, yes even believers, even PREACHERS, have evil present with them. Romans 7:21. And if they do not know these facts of scripture, could not take them personally, that I just don't consider them to be HONEST to the Words Spiritual Discourses. I could see the brainwaves ticking on his face, considering he thought he was "more righteous" than the common sinner ala Luke 18.

To finish him off, so he wouldn't bother me anymore, I said "you know what the real kicker is on this matter?" That sin is actually OF THE DEVIL. And that "all" are sinners. DO THE MATH!

At that moment, before my face, his eyebrows HOODED up, the corners of his eyes pulled away, making them appear as SLITS, his lips pursed together, and he HISSED at me.

It was unreal. I'll never forget it.

Where were the VIPERS in the New Testament Gospels?

Matthew 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

And how did this happen? Mark 4:15. It's a reality folks. Don't ever forget it.

I haven't heard from the man since. I think he's gone into seclusion. Probably hiding in a cave somewhere.

 

[Jim Parker]

Personally I have no issues looking at many of the voodoo magic practices of a lot of charismania as "demonic" in nature.

Thus you display a very careless attitude when it comes to blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

While you may have no issues, God does.

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Jesus identified your lack of an "issues" as hypocrisy.

iakov the fool

 

[smaller]

Thus you display a very careless attitude when it comes to blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

I'd suggest you be specific with your attacks and claims or move along.

 

[Jim Parker]

I'd suggest you be specific with your attacks and claims or move along.

That was not an attack. It was an observation which I felt obligated to share since it could have a bearing on your eternal condition.

You specifically said, "Personally I have no issues looking at many of the voodoo magic practices of a lot of charismania as "demonic" in nature."
Thus stating your view that charismatics are practitioners of voodoo and magic under demonic influence.
That's what YOU said.
That appears to me to be a very careless attitude when it comes to blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
You may very well be calling the work of the Holy Spirit; "Voodoo Magic" and "demonic" just as the scribes did when Jesus cast out demons.
Mat 12:36 (NKJV) “But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment."
You might care to meditate on that verse for a moment.

And you are judging "many" people who are charismatic/Pentecostal.

Is that specific enough for you or would you like further clarification? I have tried to be concise.

Grace


iakov the fool




By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that may result from said reading. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. Enjoy the rest of your life.

 

[smaller]

That was not an attack. It was an observation which I felt obligated to share since it could have a bearing on your eternal condition.

You specifically said, "Personally I have no issues looking at many of the voodoo magic practices of a lot of charismania as "demonic" in nature."
Thus stating your view that charismatics are practitioners of voodoo and magic under demonic influence.
That's what YOU said.

So what?! Does that mean I don't think they are saved REGARDLESS? I think they shall be saved, REGARDLESS. God saves believing sinners, emphasis, sinners. No we should not sin, but there is no escaping the conclusions that we all DO sin, particularly in THOUGHT. 1 Tim. 1:15, Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20 and Mark 7:21-23

That appears to me to be a very careless attitude when it comes to blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

It is very practical sight for Christian Living and "making PEACE" between believers. It is the same position I see YOU with so I don't end up falling in the pit of condemning you or any other believer to eternal hell. That is the sight of my pleasure. I don't care if anyone else sees it or not. I see it for the good of my own heart.

There is an entire entity class to view for ADVERSE JUDGMENTS that are not "believers." Nor are they "mankind." That's kinda the general point.

You may very well be calling the work of the Holy Spirit; "Voodoo Magic" and "demonic" just as the scribes did when Jesus cast out demons.

No, it's a much more simple premise. They are liars. I sat under these phony practitioners for many years, buying their lies. I don't speak from ignorance. No, God does not "guarantee" a multifold return of CASH to anyone who pays these people. That is a PONZI SCHEME. Do some people get healed? Maybe so. I've never witnessed it so I can't say.

I suspect many more people are healed by the earnest prayers of common believers, not performed on stages for cash and that devils are more than likely to be bound on the street than on the stage.

The "strongman" is Satan and his minions. Chopper may not have mentioned it yet or see it that way, but that is what the strongman refers to.

Matthew 12:
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Jesus did TWO basic "exercises" with the demonic realm.

The first exercise is REVEALING.

The second, casting out.

But Jesus did NOT cast out every devil in man that He encountered. IN the religious pharisees for example, He let them STEW in their own broth. John 8:44. Had He chosen to do otherwise He certainly could have.

 

[Jim Parker]

Does that mean I don't think they are saved REGARDLESS? I think they shall be saved, REGARDLESS. God saves believing sinners, emphasis, sinners.

So when Jesus said the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven in this life or the next, according to you, we can draw a line through that part of the Gospel and ignore it.

Mat 12:32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mar 3:29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.

Luke 12:10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

So, do you believe what Jesus said?
If so, can someone whom God has not forgiven be "saved?"

It is the same position I see YOU with so I don't end up falling in the pit of condemning you or any other believer to eternal hell.

I haven't condemned anyone. I have pointed out that you might be in danger.

There is an entire entity class to view for ADVERSE JUDGMENTS that are not "believers." Nor are they "mankind." That's kinda the general point.

It's so general as to be totally incomprehensible.

No, it's a much more simple premise. They are liars. I sat under these phony practitioners for many years, buying their lies. I don't speak from ignorance. No, God does not "guarantee" a multifold return of CASH to anyone who pays these people. That is a PONZI SCHEME. Do some people get healed? Maybe so. I've never witnessed it so I can't say.

I was in the Pentecostal Holiness Church for 18 years. I know who and what you're talking about.
Some of it is lies (heresy). Some of it is just a show for the rubes so they'll write big checks.
BUT!! Some of it is real.
Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I suspect many more people are healed by the earnest prayers of common believers, not performed on stages for cash and that devils are more than likely to be bound on the street than on the stage.

You may be right.

The "strongman" is Satan and his minions.

Yep.

But Jesus did NOT cast out every devil in man that He encountered. IN the religious pharisees for example, He let them STEW in their own broth.

There are very few as lost as those who think themselves to be more holy than the rest of the tribe.

iakov the fool

 

[smaller]

So when Jesus said the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven in this life or the next, according to you, we can draw a line through that part of the Gospel and ignore it.

Depends how how you see them. I'd see them as Paul saw himself in 2 Cor. 12:7.

So, do you believe what Jesus said?

Yes. Every jot and tittle. How bout you?

If so, can someone whom God has not forgiven be "saved?"

See 2 Cor. 12:7 for an example of Paul forgiven, the messenger of Satan in Paul's flesh NOT forgiven. Believers who read out of one eye won't can get get there and never will in this life.

I haven't condemned anyone. I have pointed out that you might be in danger.

By your lack of insight? Unlikely.

 

[Chopper]

12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
This is the verse in that passage that jumps out at me..
Where was His Kingdom? Right there right where He was/is... Where does He live today.. Do we fall short of His Glory by pushing His Kingdom off to a later time..

My goodness Reba, what an awesome Truth!! The Kingdom of God is within us who have been born into His Spiritual new birth. I believe that the Kingdom of God is in every Assembly of Believers in Jesus the Son of God that teaches the Gospel of repentance from sin, belief by faith in the Son of God, and teaches the whole counsel of God regardless of man's reception.

Thank you for your reminder not to push Jesus' Kingdom off to a later time. O how we need to be aware that the Kingdom is now, not later!!

Like you, I had my morning with Jesus.

Love You,

 

[th1b.taylor]

My goodness Reba, what an awesome Truth!! The Kingdom of God is within us who have been born into His Spiritual new birth. I believe that the Kingdom of God is in every Assembly of Believers in Jesus the Son of God that teaches the Gospel of repentance from sin, belief by faith in the Son of God, and teaches the whole counsel of God regardless of man's reception.

Thank you for your reminder not to push Jesus' Kingdom off to a later time. O how we need to be aware that the Kingdom is now, not later!!

Like you, I had my morning with Jesus.

Love You,

It is a scary thing to admit but I realized, shortly, after i was saved that that I had entered the kingdom and not too long afterward I realized most of the people I had chosen to hang and to worship with had no idea of what I spoke of on this subject. My greatest experience in regard to the kingdom occurred when three other musicians and I used to practice. Two of them lived or I should say attempted to live the same way I attempted. The three of us eventually affected the one member playing church to live for God and when four men get together to ive for and to praise God it can bring a church to it's feet and to really worship from their hearts. It makes a difference.

 

[Chopper]

Sounds good and very spiritual, but that is contrary to Scripture. We never take the place of God when it comes to rendering judgement on others. But we are commanded to distinguish between true teachers and false teachers. That is not "condemnation" but judging rightly.

Is Benny Hinn a false teacher? There are many who have determined that he is indeed. Let God judge, but let the *buyer* beware. In the mouth of two or three witnesses...
1. http://www.challies.com/articles/the-false-teachers-benny-hinn
2. http://biblelight.net/tbn.htm
3. http://www.gtycanada.org/blog/B140207/has-benny-hinn-repented
4. http://so4j.com/benny-hinn-false-teacher
5. http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/...ings-about-a-benny-hinn-miracle-service/35348
6. http://www.equip.org/hank_speaks_out/benny-hinns-false-prophecies/
7. http://www.satansrapture.com/bennyhinn.htm

Thank you Malachi for posting this very informative and accurate truth from very reliable sources. That helps me especially, with information that was new to me. When I was wintering in Florida in 1990 with my sick Wife Jennie, I used to watch Benny Hinn every morning. I was hoping that his telecasts would build faith for healing in both Jennie and I. Needless to say, it didn't work.

Hinn's so called ministry of healing did stir up some excitement in both of us, but excitement is not faith!! I have come to realize that Benny Hinn is a false teacher and should not be considered as from our YHWH. He may have started out with good intentions, but soon came under the influence of Satan to deceive for his own personal gain financially and for self-recognition.

I've never met a Pastor/Teacher who did not want to be popular. Being popular means that people will come to see and hear what you have to say, in hopes they will be saved and or edified from God's Holy Word.

 

[reba]

We can read here in these simple forums the rejection of His kingdom.. Today many folks are still looking for the human idea of His Kingdom
fancey thrones and control over others ... He tells us plainly His Kingdom is not of this world yet so many denominations and individuals push for Him to set on a chair humans have built .. He lowered Himself once to become our Sacrifice ... Still we want to bring Him down to our level .. To leave setting on the right hand of the Father to set in human throne..

Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

We have been given the pattern over and over... the physical God says this
1Co_15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

 

[smaller]

Who is the "strongman" in Jesus' Statement? And Who Is it that enters said house and what is spoiled. These would be the most obvious questions of observations.

Matthew 12:
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Man in scriptural terms is defined (one of many allegorical applications) as 'a house.' When prophets were commanded to "speak to the HOUSE of Israel", that meant to speak to the people. Here we see Jesus showing man as a house. (recall also the house built on the rock.)

Here we see the house being inhabited by an unclean spirit in the "house of man."

Luke 11:24
When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.

Look first to "who owns the house." The "owner" of the house to be spoiled is Satan. It is Satan who holds the house of man in unbelief. Mark 4:15, Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, etc etc.

How does Jesus come into the house? Jesus comes in to BIND the strongman, as A THIEF!

When this THIEF is BOUND, his goods, his house and his goods are SPOILED. It is no longer the house of unbelief, but has been CHOSEN by Jesus to enter into the Kingdom of His Son.

THEN you believe, and the Kingdom of God in Christ is IN YOU.

I am very cognizant of this when I witness Christ to anyone. I know there is a strongman involved.

And I also know it is only Jesus who can BREAK INTO that person's house, BIND that strongman, and bring in those who HE SOLELY CHOOSES to bring into His Kingdom.

We do not get to choose those who are brought into His Kingdom. That choice belongs only to God in Christ. This is what Paul describes what we do as planting, watering etc. But it is only GOD who gives the INCREASE.

There are several other actions in the Gospels that show the identical principal above.

So, YES, in order for YOU to believe A DEVIL had to be bound and CAST OUT of YOUR HOUSE, just as Jesus said. Only HE is Able to Enter and to SPOIL.

Any of you who believe can read all about the condition of YOUR HOUSE and YOUR prior ownership by our ADVERSARY in Eph. 2:2.

 

[for_his_glory]

Thank you Malachi for posting this very informative and accurate truth from very reliable sources. That helps me especially, with information that was new to me. When I was wintering in Florida in 1990 with my sick Wife Jennie, I used to watch Benny Hinn every morning. I was hoping that his telecasts would build faith for healing in both Jennie and I. Needless to say, it didn't work.

Hinn's so called ministry of healing did stir up some excitement in both of us, but excitement is not faith!! I have come to realize that Benny Hinn is a false teacher and should not be considered as from our YHWH. He may have started out with good intentions, but soon came under the influence of Satan to deceive for his own personal gain financially and for self-recognition.

I've never met a Pastor/Teacher who did not want to be popular. Being popular means that people will come to see and hear what you have to say, in hopes they will be saved and or edified from God's Holy Word.

Emotions can be deceiving at times for after all the hype we can still be left empty and lack the knowledge we so desperately need. In the beginning for myself accepting Jesus as my Lord and Savior the excitement of the Pentecostal service was so emotional within the music, lifting of hands, laying on of hands etc. ect. but once I left that atmosphere I was still empty and void of understanding Gods word. It's only when we study for ourselves that which is given to us by other teachers can we discern the truth or error in the message given, 1John 4:1-6