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Blaising

RandyK

Pentecostal
Member
I would strongly recommend not getting overheated as I relay a Postrib view of the Rapture. I was asked, by someone who disagreed with me, to read a book on the suject, which I did. Here is a quick critique....

My critique of Craig Blaising, and the book , "The Rapture, Pretribulation, Prewrath, or Postribulation."

Blaise's Pretrib view begins with a false premise, that the "Tribulation" is defined as the Reign of Antichrist, and that all positions, Pre, Pre-Wrath, and Post all are concerned with that definition in mind. That may be true of some but it is not true with me nor with some historical and early definitions of the "Tribulation."

In the Early Church, I believe only Irenaeus and Hippolytus, and perhaps one or two others, among the Church Fathers, held to a future view of Daniel 9, the 70th Week, the Abomination of Desolation, and the Tribulation. And much of what Blaising says assumes this future view of the "70th Week" and a future "Tribulation" consisting of the Antichrist's Reign of Terror.

If this is true, then Pre, Mid, and Post views are inaccurately named. I would refer to myself as post-Reign of Antichrist, and Pretribbers should be called pre-Reign of Antichrist. Since what is popular today was almost non-existent in earlier times, we need not default to a modern popular position.

Blaising also relies upon a false definition of the "Day of the Lord," indicating that the events of the Reign of Antichrist are also part of Christ's actual Coming. Since this is never stated as such in the Scriptures, I call it "faulty."

Blaising also defines the entire period of the Reign of Antichrist as "God's Wrath," assuming the Church must be absent this time period in order to avoid "God's Wrath." But the entire period is not called "God's Wrath" in the Scriptures. And it is not necessary to leave the earth in order to escape God's Wrath in the form of eternal punishment. We can simply "get Saved" to escape God's eternal wrath!

This is just a short review of some of the points Blaise makes that I view as "false." But it is based on my interpretations, and I wish no evil for those who take a contrary view. This is premarily for those who are open to other input.
 
The tribulation (which is the persecution of the saints)takes place during the last 42 months of the Israeli government beast after the arrival of the second beast to Israel.

Here Jesus said in his Olivet discourse ,he would come after that tribulation of those days.

Mathew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.




Jesus also described in his Olivet discourse the tribulation as his elect being persecuted before he comes .

Luke 21
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.



The wrath of God comes after this persecution.The saints are delivered at the time of wrath and the wrath is for everyone who has rejected Christ.Worshiped the beast and received its mark,and have persecuted the body of Christ.


Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.


24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
 
The tribulation (which is the persecution of the saints)takes place during the last 42 months of the Israeli government beast after the arrival of the second beast to Israel.

Here Jesus said in his Olivet discourse ,he would come after that tribulation of those days.

Mathew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
My view of the "Tribulation" is that it is primarily described by Jesus as being an expression of Divine punishment against the Jewish People. Like many OT prophecies, this is a prophecy against a people, namely the Jewish People.

As such, it includes the general state of the Jewish People, which is in a state of apostasy. This invites the punishment of God.

But it also include the small remnant of believers who in God's sight are righteous. They are persecuted by their ungodly Jewish brethren, which is part of the reason the Jewish People are being punished.

This punishment of the Jewish People began in 70 AD with the destruction of the Temple, terminating proper Jewish religious observance under the Law. The Law had actually been annulled when the veil was rent at the death of Christ, but the people continued the Temple worship until 70 AD.

But the fall of Jerusalem and the Temple to the Romans was just the beginning of this Tribulational punishment of the Jewish People. Jesus indicated it would lead to a Jewish wandering in exile until his 2nd Coming. And the Jewish Diaspora has indeed continued unabated over the last 2000 years. Until the reestablishment of the Jewish State Israel had existed in exile. And even after the recreation of the Jewish State, the Jews remain outside of proper worship of their God, and remain under seige by the nations, so to speak.

So if you will read in Luke 21 how Jesus defined the "Tribulation," this is it. It is not the Reign of Antichrist at the end of the age, but rather, the entire age of Jewish Punishment since the time of Jesus and his Apostles.

Why is this significant for the Church as a whole? It is significant because what the early Jewish Christians went through in their own experience of persecution by their Jewish brethren, and in their deportation among pagan nations, is precisely what Christians in all nations have had to experience, as well, to some degree or another.
 
My view of the "Tribulation" is that it is primarily described by Jesus as being an expression of Divine punishment against the Jewish People. Like many OT prophecies, this is a prophecy against a people, namely the Jewish People.

As such, it includes the general state of the Jewish People, which is in a state of apostasy. This invites the punishment of God.

But it also include the small remnant of believers who in God's sight are righteous. They are persecuted by their ungodly Jewish brethren, which is part of the reason the Jewish People are being punished.

This punishment of the Jewish People began in 70 AD with the destruction of the Temple, terminating proper Jewish religious observance under the Law. The Law had actually been annulled when the veil was rent at the death of Christ, but the people continued the Temple worship until 70 AD.

But the fall of Jerusalem and the Temple to the Romans was just the beginning of this Tribulational punishment of the Jewish People. Jesus indicated it would lead to a Jewish wandering in exile until his 2nd Coming. And the Jewish Diaspora has indeed continued unabated over the last 2000 years. Until the reestablishment of the Jewish State Israel had existed in exile. And even after the recreation of the Jewish State, the Jews remain outside of proper worship of their God, and remain under seige by the nations, so to speak.

So if you will read in Luke 21 how Jesus defined the "Tribulation," this is it. It is not the Reign of Antichrist at the end of the age, but rather, the entire age of Jewish Punishment since the time of Jesus and his Apostles.

Why is this significant for the Church as a whole? It is significant because what the early Jewish Christians went through in their own experience of persecution by their Jewish brethren, and in their deportation among pagan nations, is precisely what Christians in all nations have had to experience, as well, to some degree or another.

Sorry ,I will have to disagree
The false prophet who comes in Jesus name and decieves the Jewish people has not arrived in Israel yet.This is an end time prophecy concerning the false prophet and the beast and this chapter corresponds to both Daniel and revelation concerning the time of the end.


Mathew 24
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
 
The seven year great tribulation, which is not found anywhere in scripture, was derived by mans misinterpretation of Daniel 9:24-27. This is what the Bible clearly reveals about the seventy weeks. From vs.24 to vs.27 was seventy weeks or 490 days (490 prophetic years when you add a day for a year principle), beginning with Ezra, Ezra chapter 1-6, rebuilding the temple to the time of the Messiah (Jesus Christ) being fulfilled in His birth, death and resurrection. In a sense it was a literal and spiritual temple that was being built. Ezra was teaching the people of the spiritual temple of God that indwelled in all that believed in God and of the coming of Messiah. There was actually a four hundred year span from Ezra till the birth of Jesus that God shut himself off from Israel because of their transgressions towards the Lord, Malachi Chapter 4, but saved a remnant that would believe in the coming of Messiah, Isaiah 10. As still today, God still waits for National Israel to repent and believe in the name of Jesus as they still follow Judaism.

Daniel 9:24-27 the Vision of the Seventy Weeks

Vs. 24 this verse shows us that the timing from Ezra to the cross was 490 days (490 Prophetic years) as within that time Ezra was reestablishing the law in Jerusalem until Jesus had fulfilled the end of transgression, made an end to sin, made reconciliation for iniquity and bring everlasting righteousness and to seal up the prophecy to fulfill parts of the law through the cross.

Vs. 25 from the time of the cross, which also means the last days, which includes what some like to separate and call The Great Tribulation, which is not mentioned anywhere in scripture and is not a separate event after the elect of God are caught up, but as the last days so we are in tribulation times until the end of the world as we know it, Acts 2:17; Hebrews 1:1,2; Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:24-31; Luke 21:5-36. These are just some of the scriptures that support that we will go through all things of Rev Chapter 6-21. Everyone will have opportunity to come unto salvation through Jesus Christ if they would only believe until the door of salvation is closed when Jesus returns on the last day, which after this time no one can be saved, Matthew 25:10.

Vs.26 after 434 years that end in the year AD29 shall Messiah be cut off. Jesus was crucified after he was baptized in AD 29 three and a half years later. Jesus was cut off (killed) by the people of the Romans under Vespasian their prince that the Pharisees, Sanhedrin and the high priest who have favor with that destroy the city and the sanctuary (meaning Christ) and the end thereof shall be with a flood (Gods wrath) that will put an end to abominations by desolation or in other words a ruin to evil deeds. Daniel 9:27 explains the definitions of desolation of abominations or the ruin of evil deeds. There is no actual Desolation of Abominations where a so called Antichrist (emphasis on the capitol "A") will take a literal throne, but the desolation will be when the son of perdition, being the false prophet/last antichrist, tries to take his throne in Jerusalem, Daniel 11:36-45. Gods word never defines one great Antichrist, but says there are many antichrists, 1John2:18; 11 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Revelation 11:7. The seven years that some call the seven year tribulation means three and a half years beginning with the first six seals being the beginning of sorrows (first woe). The last three and a half years starting with the (second woe) with the sounding of the first trumpet and ending with the seventh trumpet that includes everything else written in Revelations that includes the time of Christ return for His Bride in Rev 19 up to the end when Satan is cast into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet and ends with the new Jerusalem being ushered down as then we will be with the Lord forever.

Vs.27 the 70th seven began with Christ baptism in AD 29 and three years later at the end of the first half of the 70th seven sacrifices and offering ceased because Christ hung on the cross. From the giving of the law in 458BC when Ezra went to establish the law, or to rebuild the spiritual city right to the cross where the first 69 sevens. The 70th seven is from the time of the cross until Jesus comes back in the air to call his Bride home and for the overspreading of abominations he will make desolate, or make an end to all who would not believe.

During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times. The last siege and destruction of the 2nd Temple and the wall was in 70AD as a revolt led by Titus as he broke through the walls and destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem. The wall and the Temple were never rebuilt, nor will it be in the future. The Temple mount laid waste until the Dome of the Rock was built on it in 691AD by the caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan. The Islamic control over the Dome of the Rock will never surrender the original temple mount back to the Jews.

The last decree to build and restore Jerusalem, including the building of the second Temple that took 49 days/49 prophetic years, came around 538BC with the decree given to Ezra by King Cyrus. Through much oppositions the city, walls and the second Temple were completed on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of King Darius II around 417BC as he reigned from 423BC to 404BC, Ezra Chapter 1-6. This was part of the vision given to Daniel as the full prophecy given to him is found in Daniel Chapters 9-12.

During the first six trumpets we read all the destruction that will befall earth and its inhabitants during God's great wrath being poured out into the world on those who are none of Christ as they refuse to repent. This will be worldwide which will cause much chaos and great fear in the hearts of those who have no understanding, Hosea 4:6, 7. They will be seeking a type of savior, yet rejecting the very Savior, Christ Jesus, who wants to save them.

During the sounding of the seventh trumpet they will accept this deceptive savior who is the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, who will take his seat in Jerusalem on the very Temple Mount where the Dome of the Rock sits and even now is being refurbished. He will try and rule the nations for 3 1/2 years causing all to bow down and take its mark as he promises peace and safety displaying lying signs and wonders claiming he is God. Those who refuse will be taken captive and dealt with as many Christians will either become a slave or die a martyr's death, Rev 13.

Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 19:11-21, At the end of the 3 1/2 years of the beast and its false prophet, Christ returns with His army (warring angels) from heaven and fights the final battle destroying the beast and false prophet by the spirit (word) of His mouth and the brightness of His coming, 2 Thessalonians 2:8, casting both into the lake of fire. Then will Christ destroy the remnant being those who followed after the beast out of the earth from every nation that have always followed and obeyed the beast.

Rev 20 This is the time of the gathering of the saints when Christ sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather all who are His that are asleep in the grave and alive at His coming, Matthew 24:29-31 as He then binds Satan for a time so he can not interfere with the gathering. Once we are gathered to Him Jesus lets Satan loose for a time to gather his army, which I believe to be his demonic angels, against the camp of the saints, but God consumes his army by fire sent down from heaven and Satan is then cast into the lake of fire. All those who have now been slain by Jesus are gathered with the rest of the dead and face God's final judgment as their names are not found written in the Lamb's book of life and are cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.
 
Sorry ,I will have to disagree
The false prophet who comes in Jesus name and decieves the Jewish people has not arrived in Israel yet.This is an end time prophecy concerning the false prophet and the beast and this chapter corresponds to both Daniel and revelation concerning the time of the end.


Mathew 24
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
If you will compare the Matthew version of the Olivet Discourse with the Luke version, you will see that Luke interpreted it the way I described it. Others I have shared this with have had no choice but to differentiate Matthew's version and Luke's version, because Luke's version says exactly what I said it does.

But to separate each version into different prophesies is essentially a denial of the Discourse, because different versions of a single Discourse cannot be different without confusing it. Luke's version explains it perfectly well, and Matthew's version easily fits his explanation.
 
If you will compare the Matthew version of the Olivet Discourse with the Luke version, you will see that Luke interpreted it the way I described it. Others I have shared this with have had no choice but to differentiate Matthew's version and Luke's version, because Luke's version says exactly what I said it does.

But to separate each version into different prophesies is essentially a denial of the Discourse, because different versions of a single Discourse cannot be different without confusing it. Luke's version explains it perfectly well, and Matthew's version easily fits his explanation.
I have compared all versions of the Olivet discourse

They are all speaking about the time of the end after the second beast (false prophet)arrives in Israel and the persecution that takes place during that time right up to the end when Christ comes in the clouds.



Luke is talking about what takes place at the time of the end.

Luke 21

8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.



These great signs in the heavens and earthquakes are caused by modern weapons when kingdom comes against kingdom.It has nothing to do with the last 2000 years.This is actually talking about the war of Armegeddon when kingdom comes against kingdom and causes these fearful sights in the heavens.
 
I have compared all versions of the Olivet discourse

They are all speaking about the time of the end after the second beast (false prophet)arrives in Israel and the persecution that takes place during that time right up to the end when Christ comes in the clouds.

Luke is talking about what takes place at the time of the end.

Luke 21

8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.



These great signs in the heavens and earthquakes are caused by modern weapons when kingdom comes against kingdom.It has nothing to do with the last 2000 years.This is actually talking about the war of Armegeddon when kingdom comes against kingdom and causes these fearful sights in the heavens.
I don't understand? You say you've compared the 3 synoptic Gospels on the Olivet Discourse, with respect to my arguments, and then proceed to quote part of the Olivet Discourse that have nothing to do with the points I made?

The following is obviously referring to a definition of "Tribulation" that speaks of the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD, leading to an age-long exile of the Jewish People. And this Tribulation is called a Jewish "punishment."

Describing the suffering of believers among the Jews naturally follows this reality. They are persecuted by their unbelieving Jewish brethren, and are forced to participate in the exile God has directed towards rebellious Israel. And then, these same Jewish believers suffer abuse in pagan landsd. This is the message Luke explicitly gives us....

Luke 21.20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress [Tribulation] in the land and wrath [punishment] against this people [the Jews]. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations [Jewish exile]. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled [an age-long experience]."

The entire Discourse is based on Jesus' prophecy that the Temple would be completely demolished. The Olivet Discourse is an explanation of what this means for the Jewish People, and what its time frame consists of, with the eschatological coming of Christ's Kingdom being the backdrop.
 
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I don't understand? You say you've compared the 3 synoptic Gospels on the Olivet Discourse, with respect to my arguments, and then proceed to quote part of the Olivet Discourse that have nothing to do with the points I made?

The following is obviously referring to a definition of "Tribulation" that speaks of the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD, leading to an age-long exile of the Jewish People. And this Tribulation is called a Jewish "punishment."

Describing the suffering of believers among the Jews naturally follows this reality. They are persecuted by their unbelieving Jewish brethren, and are forced to participate in the exile God has directed towards rebellious Israel. And then, these same Jewish believers suffer abuse in pagan landsd. This is the message Luke explicitly gives us....

Luke 21.20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress [Tribulation] in the land and wrath [punishment] against this people [the Jews]. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations [Jewish exile]. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled [an age-long experience]."

The entire Discourse is based on Jesus' prophecy that the Temple would be completely demolished. The Olivet Discourse is an explanation of what this means for the Jewish People, and what its time frame consists of, with the eschatological coming of Christ's Kingdom being the backdrop.
I agree you do not understand.

None of it has anything to do with 70 AD.


Luke 21

8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.




The Romans did not cause great signs in the heavens and did not make the earthquakes in diverse places.In fact,the abomination that causes desolation was not invented by man till the 20th century


These things take place on the day of the Lord.
 
I agree you do not understand.

None of it has anything to do with 70 AD.


Luke 21

8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.




The Romans did not cause great signs in the heavens and did not make the earthquakes in diverse places.In fact,the abomination that causes desolation was not invented by man till the 20th century


These things take place on the day of the Lord.
Be careful.

Luk 21:5 And while some were speaking of the temple, how it was adorned with noble stones and offerings, he said,
Luk 21:6 “As for these things that you see, the days will come when there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
Luk 21:7 And they asked him, “Teacher, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?” (ESV)

Nitice what precedes the questions—Jesus saying “the days will come when there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.” That happened in 70 AD or so. We know that from history.

The questions are more clear in Matthew’s account and a lot of people make this mistake: not realizing that Jesus is asked two questions, both of which could have very different timelines.

Mat 24:3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” (ESV)
 
Be careful.

Luk 21:5 And while some were speaking of the temple, how it was adorned with noble stones and offerings, he said,
Luk 21:6 “As for these things that you see, the days will come when there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
Luk 21:7 And they asked him, “Teacher, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?” (ESV)

Nitice what precedes the questions—Jesus saying “the days will come when there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.” That happened in 70 AD or so. We know that from history.

The questions are more clear in Matthew’s account and a lot of people make this mistake: not realizing that Jesus is asked two questions, both of which could have very different timelines.

Mat 24:3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” (ESV)
Like I said already.
These "christians" who come in Jesus name have not arrived in Israel yet .The man of sin should be sending them shortly.


Mathew 24
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.


When they arrive in Israel,will you recognize them?
 
I agree you do not understand.

None of it has anything to do with 70 AD.


Luke 21

8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.




The Romans did not cause great signs in the heavens and did not make the earthquakes in diverse places.In fact,the abomination that causes desolation was not invented by man till the 20th century


These things take place on the day of the Lord.
Yes, I do not understand. Nothing could be more clear, nothing could be more transparent, nothing could be more explicit. Jesus said the temple would be destroyed in "this generation." That was in 70 AD.

But you will believe what you want.
 
Yes, I do not understand. Nothing could be more clear, nothing could be more transparent, nothing could be more explicit. Jesus said the temple would be destroyed in "this generation." That was in 70 AD.

But you will believe what you want.
This generation?

What's the definition of generation?
 
Have you ever looked up the definition of "this generation"?

Same generation responsible for the shed blood of Able.
Words mean what they mean *in context.* In context Jesus was speaking of the Temple in Jerusalem, because he was talking about it as he left that area. That Temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD. *That* generation.

We were taught by Hal Lindsey and others that the birth pain signs Jesus gave were for the Last Generation. In context, Jesus was speaking of signs that pointed to the destruction of the Temple. Signs like "wars and rumors of wars." The Roman Army had been active, and Jews in Jesus' time would've known what he was talking about.

There were also earthquakes and heavenly signs, in particular at the time Jesus was crucified. The persecution of the Disciples was also a sign. These were warnings to the generation of Jesus' Apostles that things were about to get very tough. And they did in 70 AD, and beyond.
 
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