Bible Study BLASPHEMY of the HOLY SPIRIT = The Unpardonable Sin??

[Boaz]

I can not agree with this as I have seen those who once held all truths literally walk away in hatred as something devastating has happened in their life that caused them to lose all faith and speak evil of God's Holy Spirit.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. 10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you. 11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Because of persecution/tribulations (roaring lion) in ones life many lose faith and hope and go as far as speaking evil against the Holy Spirit as they lost all faith and trust in God as they harden their heart against Him. The story of Job comes to mind as God allowed Satan to take everything away from Job, except his very life. Job chose to be faithful to God no matter what happened. It's a matter of being strong in the face of the adversary or allow the adversary to make you weak.

I agree we have to be strong in the face of the adversary. That in times of heartbreaking devastation, after we have been praying to and leaning on God, we may in anger and grief raise our voice against God, but is that against the Holy Spirit for one (Jesus makes a definite distinction between blasphemy against Father, Son Holy Spirit). And two, is it pain or our heart that hurls horrendous accusations? I actually reached a breaking point on one occasion and told God I didn't want anything to do with Him. I was tired of hoping and praying and over and over again being slammed to the ground. But my saving faith was not denied. I didn't deny anything I knew about Jesus. I just wanted Him to leave me alone. I just wanted to take the punches on my own, instead of counting on Him relieve me of the pain. And then I was stricken with a terrible fear. I was about to take a trip and had put myself in a position where I could not ask for His protection! I did some sit down rethinking and repenting. Later in this ordeal I could see clearly that all this grief, though painful, was God forcefully and divinely pulling me out and away from a horrendous situation.
All that said. Have you actually known personally anyone who did completely abandon with speaking, because the U.S. is spoken with true and genuine hatred of the light, their faith? And if you have I would have to suggest that the conversion was never genuine, only their understanding of what entailed (light) and a pretending, for whatever reason, that they were born again.

 

[for_his_glory]

I agree we have to be strong in the face of the adversary. That in times of heartbreaking devastation, after we have been praying to and leaning on God, we may in anger and grief raise our voice against God, but is that against the Holy Spirit for one (Jesus makes a definite distinction between blasphemy against Father, Son Holy Spirit). And two, is it pain or our heart that hurls horrendous accusations? I actually reached a breaking point on one occasion and told God I didn't want anything to do with Him. I was tired of hoping and praying and over and over again being slammed to the ground. But my saving faith was not denied. I didn't deny anything I knew about Jesus. I just wanted Him to leave me alone. I just wanted to take the punches on my own, instead of counting on Him relieve me of the pain. And then I was stricken with a terrible fear. I was about to take a trip and had put myself in a position where I could not ask for His protection! I did some sit down rethinking and repenting. Later in this ordeal I could see clearly that all this grief, though painful, was God forcefully and divinely pulling me out and away from a horrendous situation.
All that said. Have you actually known personally anyone who did completely abandon with speaking, because the U.S. is spoken with true and genuine hatred of the light, their faith? And if you have I would have to suggest that the conversion was never genuine, only their understanding of what entailed (light) and a pretending, for whatever reason, that they were born again.

I am speaking about the Holy Spirit that many have turned away from truth and speak evil from a hardened heart against the Holy Spirit which is the meaning of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Many of us have been angry at God and spoken words out of emotion, but not spoken from a hardened heart.

I have seen a few that were on fire for the Lord, Spiritually born again, indwelled with the Holy Spirit and grounded in truth that fell away from all of it speaking evil against the Holy Spirit from a hardened heart turned to stone because of something that happened to them that was so devastating that they allowed the roaring lion to devour them. Many say this can not happen, but it does as I have witnessed it.

 

[Boaz]

I am speaking about the Holy Spirit that many have turned away from truth and speak evil from a hardened heart against the Holy Spirit which is the meaning of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Many of us have been angry at God and spoken words out of emotion, but not spoken from a hardened heart.

I have seen a few that were on fire for the Lord, Spiritually born again, indwelled with the Holy Spirit and grounded in truth that fell away from all of it speaking evil against the Holy Spirit from a hardened heart turned to stone because of something that happened to them that was so devastating that they allowed the roaring lion to devour them. Many say this can not happen, but it does as I have witnessed it.

I certainly can't disagree with what you have extended.
Have a question though. Wouldn't that be a house divided against itself, if the Holy Spirit indwells the person? And if not, then what is? I think this because in one of the gospels where Jesus is talking about blaspheming the Holy Spirit, this is where He talks about the house divided.

 

[Boaz]

I certainly can't disagree with what you have extended.
Have a question though. Wouldn't that be a house divided against itself, if the Holy Spirit indwells the person? And if not, then what is? I think this because in one of the gospels where Jesus is talking about blaspheming the Holy Spirit, this is where He talks about the house divided.

Sorry. What you have experienced, not extended.

 

[for_his_glory]

I certainly can't disagree with what you have extended.
Have a question though. Wouldn't that be a house divided against itself, if the Holy Spirit indwells the person? And if not, then what is? I think this because in one of the gospels where Jesus is talking about blaspheming the Holy Spirit, this is where He talks about the house divided.

I'm going to assume you mean Matthew 12:22-28. Jesus was responding to the Pharisees accusation that Jesus was casting out demons by the power of Satan. This is a blasphemy that Jesus said would not be forgiven them as they associated Jesus with Satan. The house divided or kingdom divided can not stand would be that of Satan casting himself out of someone.

This is how others approach the Holy Spirit calling Him evil as they have hardened their hearts as it has turned into stone.

 

[Boaz]

I'm going to assume you mean Matthew 12:22-28. Jesus was responding to the Pharisees accusation that Jesus was casting out demons by the power of Satan. This is a blasphemy that Jesus said would not be forgiven them as they associated Jesus with Satan. The house divided or kingdom divided can not stand would be that of Satan casting himself out of someone.

This is how others approach the Holy Spirit calling Him evil as they have hardened their hearts as it has turned into stone.

They associated the work that He was doing as being done by Satan, which I'm sure is what you are saying. Therefore Jesus identified that with blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Again, what you said. It is a malicious, having been enlightened, (the Pharisees knew full well only God can cast out demons and the work of the Holy Spirit in this), hatred of the Holy Spirit. They were not saved. They rejected Jesus even though they knew from scripture of the Messiah and the works that He would do. They did not have e Holy Spirit in them. Jesus did.
As for the hardening, I contend from the many times the Bible says so that it is God who hardens a heart. In the case of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and maybe in all cases, I of course don't know, it is a judicial hardening. God will not do this to one of His own, who have been purchased by the blood of Jesus. And I still believe that though I agree with your explanation of Matthew 12, I also believe that a Christian, indweltby the Holy Spirit would be a house divided if they blasphemed the Holy Spirit. It is Satan who hates Him. He would HAVE to be involved and also wouldn't it amount to Satan casting Him out of the person.

I know FHG that I say these things as though they are absolute indisputable fact, (my bad) but it is just a conversation, telling you what I personally believe. I enjoy our conversation. Not about right and wrong, no matter what I may sound like at times.☺

 

[for_his_glory]

Sorry. What you have experienced, not extended.

???

 

[Boaz]

???

Posts must be out of order. It was in reference to your post 43 where you were telling me of personal experience with some committing the U.S. I had an bad auto correct that changed what I meant to be "experience" into "extended".

 

[for_his_glory]

They associated the work that He was doing as being done by Satan, which I'm sure is what you are saying. Therefore Jesus identified that with blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Again, what you said. It is a malicious, having been enlightened, (the Pharisees knew full well only God can cast out demons and the work of the Holy Spirit in this), hatred of the Holy Spirit. They were not saved. They rejected Jesus even though they knew from scripture of the Messiah and the works that He would do. They did not have e Holy Spirit in them. Jesus did.
As for the hardening, I contend from the many times the Bible says so that it is God who hardens a heart. In the case of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and maybe in all cases, I of course don't know, it is a judicial hardening. God will not do this to one of His own, who have been purchased by the blood of Jesus. And I still believe that though I agree with your explanation of Matthew 12, I also believe that a Christian, indweltby the Holy Spirit would be a house divided if they blasphemed the Holy Spirit. It is Satan who hates Him. He would HAVE to be involved and also wouldn't it amount to Satan casting Him out of the person.

I know FHG that I say these things as though they are absolute indisputable fact, (my bad) but it is just a conversation, telling you what I personally believe. I enjoy our conversation. Not about right and wrong, no matter what I may sound like at times.☺

I too have been enjoying our discussion and even if we disagree that's OK as long as we keep the unity of love flowing.

Let me explain myself afresh about those who blasphemy against the Holy Spirit as I don't think I have explained it very well, especially in light of what is written in Hebrews 6:1-8.

When I said I knew some that were on fire for the Lord and all of that, I thought more about them and it's impossible that they could have walked away blaspheming the Holy Spirit if they were truly enlightened.

What it all breaks down to is one speaking evil against the Holy Spirit that once might have had some understanding, but have now let their house be divided as they go back to the harden heart that God once changed to a new heart as they have gone back to following their own will as they no longer walk in the Spirit, nor did they allow themselves to mature in the Spirit, Ezekiel 36:26.

How can one blasphemy the Holy Spirit if they never knew there was one, so in order to speak evil against the Holy Spirit one had to have had known that there is one being a part of the Godhead.

Hebrews 6:1-8 is speaking about maturity as we are to leave the principles of the doctrines of Christ (milk) and move on to perfection (meat) no longer laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and faith toward God. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Those who walk away and speak evil (blasphemy) against the Holy Spirit are those who never matured in the knowledge and wisdom of the word of God, even when they were Spiritually born again, but never enlightened.

 

[for_his_glory]

Posts must be out of order. It was in reference to your post 43 where you were telling me of personal experience with some committing the U.S. I had an bad auto correct that changed what I meant to be "experience" into "extended".

OK, thanks for the explanation.

 

[Who Me]

I think you mean why would a Christian say...
The answer is, they are deceived.





JLB

Thank you for correcting my typo.

Two answers, Why would a Christian be derived into blaspheming their Lord and Saviour.
We are to learn the what, why and how of Christianity and to be like the veterans to examine All teaching to check that it is in accordance with what the Bible teaches.
There is to be No easy believism, we are all to be able to give a reason, not a feeling, but a logical reason for what and why we believe.

So the Christian should not be decieve.

2/. Should a Christian be confused, befuddled, uncertain and lead into error.
Do you think so little of Jesus that he would willing throw out someone whose flame is only just smouldering or someone who truly loves him but has been lead astray by false teachers..
Think of the parable of the lost sheep, the missing one out of a hundred, what does the Shepard/Jesus do?

 

[WIP]

Do you think so little of Jesus that he would willing throw out someone whose flame is only just smouldering or someone who truly loves him but has been lead astray by false teachers..

Throw out? No! But God will not force anyone that doesn't want to be saved.

 

[for_his_glory]

Do you think so little of Jesus that he would willing throw out someone whose flame is only just smouldering

I will also answer this as saying, yes He will.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. (Please read the the full context from vs. 14-22)

 

[WIP]

I will also answer this as saying, yes He will.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. (Please read the the full context from vs. 14-22)

Interesting! How do we reconcile this with John 10:27-30 NKJV
27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

 

[Boaz]

[/QUOTE]

I too have been enjoying our discussion and even if we disagree that's OK as long as we keep the unity of love flowing.

Let me explain myself afresh about those who blasphemy against the Holy Spirit as I don't think I have explained it very well, especially in light of what is written in Hebrews 6:1-8.

When I said I knew some that were on fire for the Lord and all of that, I thought more about them and it's impossible that they could have walked away blaspheming the Holy Spirit if they were truly enlightened.

What it all breaks down to is one speaking evil against the Holy Spirit that once might have had some understanding, but have now let their house be divided as they go back to the harden heart that God once changed to a new heart as they have gone back to following their own will as they no longer walk in the Spirit, nor did they allow themselves to mature in the Spirit, Ezekiel 36:26.

How can one blasphemy the Holy Spirit if they never knew there was one, so in order to speak evil against the Holy Spirit one had to have had known that there is one being a part of the Godhead.

Hebrews 6:1-8 is speaking about maturity as we are to leave the principles of the doctrines of Christ (milk) and move on to perfection (meat) no longer laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and faith toward God. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Those who walk away and speak evil (blasphemy) against the Holy Spirit are those who never matured in the knowledge and wisdom of the word of God, even when they were Spiritually born again, but never enlightened.

I pretty much agree with everything you say. I think, correct me if I am wrong, we disagree on whether a Christian can commit the unpardonable sin. And our differing view is because we are starting from different theological points. We both know what that is and it also involves OSAS so no need to discuss THAT! Also we are using the word enlightened differently. Language is so wonderful yet often very confusing as we can't see into anothers mind!
You say a Christian can be born again but not enlightened and I gather that you are speaking of the ever increasing knowledge that comes with maturing in Christ. The way I am using the word is in reference to a person who is a participating in Christian communites, so has heard and has as head knowledge, everything necessary for salvation, and they have witnessed activity of the Holy Spirit among believers, knows He exists and His role in salvation and in the believers lives. Yet it does not penetrate to his heart.The one who commits the U.P. sin, is one with this knowledge who for whatever reason comes to a place of genuine hatred and rejection and cursing of the Holy Spirit. The hardening of such a person to a place where they cannot repent I believe is done by God, as the Bible says this, and it is a judicial hardening, an irreverrsible judgement, different than the natural hardening that is the effect of repeated sin.
Since we, you and I have the particular theological differences that we do, I accept with love, that you will not agree! LOL
I do have a question though, and it is sincere. I would like to know if there is a Biblical answer out of this. If a Christian, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, commits the U,S. , is that not in effect Satan casting out the Holy Spirit? Something we know is impossible,

 

[atpollard]

The word translated as “blasphemy“ in English is Strong’s G987 ...

βλασφημέω blasphēméō, blas-fay-meh'-o; from G989; to vilify; specially, to speak impiously:—(speak) blaspheme(-er, -mously, -my), defame, rail on, revile, speak evil.


or in more detail from Thayer’s Greek Lexicon ...

STRONGS NT 987: βλασφημέω
βλασφημέω, -ῶ; imperfect ἐβλασφήμουν; 1 aorist ἐβλασφήμησα; passive [present βλασφημοῦμαι]; 1 future βλασφημηθήσομαι; (βλάσφημος, which see); to speak reproachfully, rail at, revile, calumniate (Vulg. blasphemo); absolutely: Luke 22:65; Acts 13:45; Acts 18:6; Acts 26:11; 1 Timothy 1:20; 1 Peter 4:4; with accusative of person or thing (as in later Greek, Josephus, Plutarch, Appian, etc.): Matthew 27:39; Mark 3:28 L T Tr WH; Mark 15:29; Luke 23:39; Titus 3:2; James 2:7; Jude 1:10; with the cognate noun βλασφημίαν, to utter blasphemy (Plato, legg. 7, p. 800 c.; see ἀγαπάω at the end), Mark 3:28 R G (where L T Tr WH ὅσα for ὅσας, see above); [followed by ἐν, 2 Peter 2:12; cf. Alexander Buttmann as at end, and see ἀγνοέω, a.]. Passive βλασφημοῦμαι to be evil spoken of, reviled, railed at: Romans 3:8; Romans 14:16; 1 Corinthians 4:13 (T WH Tr marginal reading δυσφημούμενοι); 1 Corinthians 10:30; Titus 2:5; 2 Peter 2:2; τὸ ὄνομά τινος, Romans 2:24; 1 Timothy 6:1. Specifically, of those who by contemptuous speech intentionally come short of the reverence due to God or to sacred things (for גִדֵּף, 2 Kings 19:6, 22 cf. 2 Kings 19:4; cf. Grimm on 2 Macc. 10:34); absolutely: Matthew 9:3; Matthew 26:65; Mark 2:7 L T Tr WH; [John 10:36]; τὸν θεόν, Revelation 16:11, 21; τὴν θεάν, Acts 19:37 (G L T Tr WH τὴν θεόν); τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ θεοῦ, Revelation 13:6; Revelation 16:9; τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ θεοῦ (βλασφημεῖται), 1 Peter 4:14 Rec.; δόξας, Jude 1:8; 2 Peter 2:10 (see δόξα, III. 3 b. γ.); εἰς τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγ. Mark 3:29; Luke 12:10 (εἰς θεούς, Plato, rep. 2, p. 381 e.). The earlier Greeks say βλασφ. εἴς τινα, περί or κατά τινος; [on the N. T. constructions cf. Winers Grammar, 222 (208); 629 (584); Buttmann, 146 (128)].


Blasphemy of (or against) the Holy Spirit would seem to be no small matter or momentary slip of the tongue.

 

[Who Me]

I will also answer this as saying, yes He will.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. (Please read the the full context from vs. 14-22)

And the context is that of a warning and it is address to those who are not weak struggling Christians.
Changing the metaphor.
To a drowning man you would say get swimming lessons.

That is what I mean by a smouldering flame of faith. One doesn't chuck a bucket of petrol over it, but gentle fan it and feed it fuel.

 

[for_his_glory]

Interesting! How do we reconcile this with John 10:27-30 NKJV
27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

John 10:27-30 is true as those who are Christ own He will never lose, because they are being matured and enlightened by the Holy Spirit teaching and guiding them.

I was replying to what Who Me was asking in post #51 when he said, "Do you think so little of Jesus that he would willing throw out someone whose flame is only just smouldering. I said yes He would and this is why I quoted Rev 3:14-21 as being a reference for those who are lukewarm that Jesus will spew them out of His mouth.

I also referenced Hebrews 6:1-8 as those who are lukewarm never allowed themselves to Spiritually mature and were never enlightened by the Holy Spirit who gives us wisdom and understanding of that which Jesus had already taught.

IMO this can also be a form of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit as they were Spiritually born again, but ended up rejecting the indwelling Holy Spirit as they say they are rich and increased with goods, and have need of nothing. Other words they no longer needed God in their lives as they believe they are no longer wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked that led them to the Lord in the first place when they heard God calling them.

 

[for_his_glory]

I pretty much agree with everything you say. I think, correct me if I am wrong, we disagree on whether a Christian can commit the unpardonable sin. And our differing view is because we are starting from different theological points. We both know what that is and it also involves OSAS so no need to discuss THAT! Also we are using the word enlightened differently. Language is so wonderful yet often very confusing as we can't see into anothers mind!
You say a Christian can be born again but not enlightened and I gather that you are speaking of the ever increasing knowledge that comes with maturing in Christ. The way I am using the word is in reference to a person who is a participating in Christian communites, so has heard and has as head knowledge, everything necessary for salvation, and they have witnessed activity of the Holy Spirit among believers, knows He exists and His role in salvation and in the believers lives. Yet it does not penetrate to his heart.The one who commits the U.P. sin, is one with this knowledge who for whatever reason comes to a place of genuine hatred and rejection and cursing of the Holy Spirit. The hardening of such a person to a place where they cannot repent I believe is done by God, as the Bible says this, and it is a judicial hardening, an irreverrsible judgement, different than the natural hardening that is the effect of repeated sin.
Since we, you and I have the particular theological differences that we do, I accept with love, that you will not agree! LOL
I do have a question though, and it is sincere. I would like to know if there is a Biblical answer out of this. If a Christian, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, commits the U,S. , is that not in effect Satan casting out the Holy Spirit? Something we know is impossible,
[/QUOTE]

OSAS vs OSNAS is no longer allowed to be discussed in the forums any longer. You can read the scrolling message at the top of the page.

Romans 1:28 it is God that turns them over to a reprobate mind as they no longer retain God in their knowledge as for whatever reason they have allowed them self to come to a place of pure hatred and rejection as they curse (speak evil) against the Holy Spirit which is the unpardonable sin that will never be forgiven.

Another good scripture is Matthew 13:14, 15 and Rev 3:15, 16 as their heart has become dull and their ears can barely hear and their eyes they have closed as they have become lukewarm and hardened their heart and God will spew them out of His mouth.

If one is Spiritually maturing being led and taught by the Holy Spirit they keep moving forward in the Holy Spirit who gives us understanding and wisdom of all God wants us to learn as we are enlightened into all truths. These are the ones who have tasted and know that the Lord is good and hear the voice of the Master.

 

[Boaz]

I will also answer this as saying, yes He will.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. (Please read the the full context from vs. 14-22)

Matthew 12:15-21 You must read all these verses to get the context but the critical verse is 20. "A bruised reed he will not break, and a smouldering wick He will not snuff out." I agree that appears at first glance to contradict Rev. 3:16 but of course know that there is no contradiction in the Bible because there is no contradiction in God. There are many places where it looks like two opposing teachings. The way to settle the apparent contradiction is to start with the one that is perfectly clear in relation to other places of clarity on the same subject , then examine our interpretation of the seeming contraction to see where we may be misinterpreting. This requires the entire context of the scripture, taking into account who, what where, when and why.
So the Matthew scripture is clear and lines up with , just for one example for sake of space, John 10:21-30. Also John 6:37-40.
That being the case, what would be Another possible interpretation of Rev. 3:16?