-
-
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
StoveBolts said:
To say my hermeneutics is bad , is the same as telling me I am "out of context" I think you will know what I mean
With that said: If I have to agree with yours, then that would mean that all who are not the religious elite is exempted from bearing fruit as a condition to "being known". Now we all know that cannot be true, because we all must bear fruit. This can be seen in the context of the whole Bible , which makes my hermeneutics rather sound ;)
The reason why we must bear fruit, is because that fruit is Christ. Nobody gets to go to heaven without the fruit of Christ.......thirty, sixty or a hundred fold.
stovebolts
Member
- Nov 4, 2004
- 18,907
- 7,275
C,
If your building a wall, and one brick gets taken out of that wall, and the wall starts to crumble... you might want to re-evaluate how that wall was engineered. ;)
Play time is done for me today. I'll try to address this in more detail tomorrow. Gotta run.
If your building a wall, and one brick gets taken out of that wall, and the wall starts to crumble... you might want to re-evaluate how that wall was engineered. ;)
Play time is done for me today. I'll try to address this in more detail tomorrow. Gotta run.
stovebolts
Member
- Nov 4, 2004
- 18,907
- 7,275
Hey C,
I got a good chuckle on your response, and outside of my better judgment, let me run this across you.
If we look back at Cain and Able, Cain was a farmer and Able tended flocks. Now, a shepherd wanders wherever he can find good pasture for his flock, while a farmer tends to look at the land, mark it out, and stake claim. You see, a farmer has a concrete way of setting boundaries, while a shepherd simply seeks pasture wherever it may be with little distinction for boundaries. And inevitably, the shepherd finds himself crossing onto the land that the farmer is farming and the questions arises, “Who’s land is it?â€Â
Cain ends up killing his brother, and as a result, he heads east of Eden, that is, away from the garden, and starts to build a city. A little farther down the road, we see all the peoples building a great tower to heaven, and what are they building this tower with? Bricks.
A little farther into the story, we come across a people enslaved to pharaoh in Egypt, and they are building a mighty city for the Empire.. and what do we see them building it with? You guessed it.. Bricks. One day, pharaoh up’s the slaves quota’s of bricks per day and in addition, does not provide straw. Now then, if a slave does not meet his quota, he is beaten. Now then, just imagine for a moment. A man comes home beaten and his daughter asks, “Who beat you Daddy?†and the fathers reply is, “The guard. You see honey, my quota for bricks has been increased, and if I do not make my quota, I am beaten.â€Â.. The daughter replies, “What a horrible man.†To which the father replies, “No honey, you see, if I don’t make my quota, then he doesn’t make his quota. If he doesn’t make his quota, his boss will beat him. Furthermore, if his bosses boss does not make his quota, he'll get beaten, and this happens all the way up the chain until we get directly to Pharaoh.â€Â
So, in a since, it is Pharaoh who is doing the beating. What starts out as ego centric back in the garden, stems out to a ethnic centric way that a society relates to one another. This occurs when oppressive systemic sin enters into a society. But this type of governance isn’t only seen in Egypt, it is seen across the globe many, many times. It is seen through Alexander the Great, it is seen throug the Roman Empire and surely more recently, it was seen when Hitler ruled Germany and attempted to conquer the world.
Revelation 17 is speaking to such a type of governance and represents everything that is against God’s Kingdom both here on earth as well as in heaven, as well as everything God originally intended when he created man way back in the Garden.
You see, Solomon, son of David built God’s temple with “forced laborâ€Âaka ‘slaves’ (1 Kings 4:6, 5:13-14 and 9:21), Was Solomon more like Cain, or was he more like Able? Solomon came building walls and an empire through oppression, Christ, the good shepherd came to feed his flock… and the answer to the age old question, “who’s land is it?â€Â… and while you ponder the obvious answer ask yourself if building a wall was ever such a good idea?...
Now then, to build a wall by associating like words under the idea of context can be very dangerous, especially when we’re talking mixed authors. The type of redaction that you implore does work with various writing of Luke that I am familiar with, but aside from that, I generally shy away from word searches. As it stands above, I believe my redaction on Revelation 17, though incomplete, stands on it’s own and does not interfere in any way with Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out demons? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.
Plainly speaking; Revelation 17 - the subjects are those who never had their names written in the Book. In Matthew 7, it is those who are like those in Philippians 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
I get the general idea that those in Mathew 7, aren’t those spoken of in Revelation 17
Do you think I missed the mark? If so, please explain.
Grace and peace.
Jeff
I got a good chuckle on your response, and outside of my better judgment, let me run this across you.
If we look back at Cain and Able, Cain was a farmer and Able tended flocks. Now, a shepherd wanders wherever he can find good pasture for his flock, while a farmer tends to look at the land, mark it out, and stake claim. You see, a farmer has a concrete way of setting boundaries, while a shepherd simply seeks pasture wherever it may be with little distinction for boundaries. And inevitably, the shepherd finds himself crossing onto the land that the farmer is farming and the questions arises, “Who’s land is it?â€Â
Cain ends up killing his brother, and as a result, he heads east of Eden, that is, away from the garden, and starts to build a city. A little farther down the road, we see all the peoples building a great tower to heaven, and what are they building this tower with? Bricks.
A little farther into the story, we come across a people enslaved to pharaoh in Egypt, and they are building a mighty city for the Empire.. and what do we see them building it with? You guessed it.. Bricks. One day, pharaoh up’s the slaves quota’s of bricks per day and in addition, does not provide straw. Now then, if a slave does not meet his quota, he is beaten. Now then, just imagine for a moment. A man comes home beaten and his daughter asks, “Who beat you Daddy?†and the fathers reply is, “The guard. You see honey, my quota for bricks has been increased, and if I do not make my quota, I am beaten.â€Â.. The daughter replies, “What a horrible man.†To which the father replies, “No honey, you see, if I don’t make my quota, then he doesn’t make his quota. If he doesn’t make his quota, his boss will beat him. Furthermore, if his bosses boss does not make his quota, he'll get beaten, and this happens all the way up the chain until we get directly to Pharaoh.â€Â
So, in a since, it is Pharaoh who is doing the beating. What starts out as ego centric back in the garden, stems out to a ethnic centric way that a society relates to one another. This occurs when oppressive systemic sin enters into a society. But this type of governance isn’t only seen in Egypt, it is seen across the globe many, many times. It is seen through Alexander the Great, it is seen throug the Roman Empire and surely more recently, it was seen when Hitler ruled Germany and attempted to conquer the world.
Revelation 17 is speaking to such a type of governance and represents everything that is against God’s Kingdom both here on earth as well as in heaven, as well as everything God originally intended when he created man way back in the Garden.
You see, Solomon, son of David built God’s temple with “forced laborâ€Âaka ‘slaves’ (1 Kings 4:6, 5:13-14 and 9:21), Was Solomon more like Cain, or was he more like Able? Solomon came building walls and an empire through oppression, Christ, the good shepherd came to feed his flock… and the answer to the age old question, “who’s land is it?â€Â… and while you ponder the obvious answer ask yourself if building a wall was ever such a good idea?...
Now then, to build a wall by associating like words under the idea of context can be very dangerous, especially when we’re talking mixed authors. The type of redaction that you implore does work with various writing of Luke that I am familiar with, but aside from that, I generally shy away from word searches. As it stands above, I believe my redaction on Revelation 17, though incomplete, stands on it’s own and does not interfere in any way with Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out demons? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.
Plainly speaking; Revelation 17 - the subjects are those who never had their names written in the Book. In Matthew 7, it is those who are like those in Philippians 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
I get the general idea that those in Mathew 7, aren’t those spoken of in Revelation 17
Do you think I missed the mark? If so, please explain.
Grace and peace.
Jeff
StoveBolts,
God will frustrate the wisdom of the wise. The foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of man.
Eph 4:4-6
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. KJV
Man did not prophesy at the will of man. The Scriptures have not come to us through the will of man.
Joe
God will frustrate the wisdom of the wise. The foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of man.
Eph 4:4-6
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. KJV
Man did not prophesy at the will of man. The Scriptures have not come to us through the will of man.
Joe
The warning is to anyone who hears the words of the prophecy of the book of Revelation. It assumes you can hear, therefore you have a part. I suppose this is why Revelation is the last book in the Bible. To remove it or any part of it would be a sin - blaspheming the Spirit of God. So that is why it is included. I think we can assume no one on this forum is interested in adding to it or removing it.
We have on this forum two groups: the sheep - those who love the truth and who hold fast the promise - therefore they are doing the will of God - and the goats - those who have sharp horns, who tread the good pasture under foot and who foul the clear water with their feet. 'Must my sheep eat what you have trodden with your feet, and drink what you have fouled with your feet?' Ezekiel 34:19
Does saying it suggest Paul has no confidence? No. He's full of confidence. He knows what he is doing. 'A man without self-control is like a city broken into and left without walls.' Pr. 25:28 (No walls, no defense). He practised what he preached to others or he would be disqualified - It almost goes without saying. Was Paul disqualified? I don't think so. But I don't know if saying he wasn't disqualified proves OSAS or not.
You have been saved through faith. We are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Now with respect to the good works for which we were created, and which God has created us to do, we know that he prepared them for us to do beforehand, and we walk in them; that is, we are walking the walk he prepared. We can't boast. But this is provided we abide in the vine. I'm not saying this because you are outside the vine. I only say it for the benefit of those who are listening in, who are weak in the faith, who don't believe God has prepared our walk beforehand. There's alot of hard things they don't understand. But everything can be criticized. I don't particularily like OSAS because it doesn't include enough. For example, it doesn't include endurance. I like the confidence. But confidence requires endurance. We all need endurance. And it doesn't include prayer. We all need prayer and endurance. It's not a substitute for the word of God. The actually words which you know so well and you guard so well, they are the words of life.
Believe me, OSAS, the Trinity, etc., they will all disappear at the coming of the Lord. Everything will be leveled. Imagine how far some churches will fall. The greatest will make the loudest noise. 'great was the fall of it.'
Believe me, OSAS, the Trinity, etc., they will all disappear at the coming of the Lord. Everything will be leveled. Imagine how far some churches will fall. The greatest will make the loudest noise. 'great was the fall of it.'
stovebolts
Member
- Nov 4, 2004
- 18,907
- 7,275
Joe,Joe67 said:
I fail to see the relevance in how your reply relates to my last post... Please expound.
StoveBolts,StoveBolts said:
Here is the part of your post toward which my last post was directed. I made bold the part in particular that I believe is a snare.
The present sufferings of Christ and the glory which is to follow cannot be established by context. Jesus is revealed in the OT here a little and there a little, line upon line, precept upon precept. So it is in the NT at the will of God through the holy Spirit with groanings. We are not given to be judges until we have groaned within ourselves through the first fruits of the Spirit.
1 Peter 1:10-12
10 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. KJV
The Lord Jesus was revealed to the disciples from the prophet's testimony. It was a revelation mingled in bits and pieces through many human mouths but given by One Teacher through many generations and cultures.
God, by Jesus Christ, through the gift and illumination of the holy Spirit reveals His will and purpose to babes and sucklings but hides it from the wise and prudent when they lift up their heel against their Master. Education is the Spirit's servant. The Spirit is education's master.
The flames of fire on the 7 branched candlestick is what gave light to the holy place of the sanctuary.
Joe
Adullam
Member
- Mar 28, 2009
- 2,175
- 2
There are actually two books of life mentioned in the bible. Of course the references are a bit cryptic. There is the book of life AND the Lamb's book of life. The latter book is for admittance into Jerusalem (the new) The book of life is for barest salvation. As in...the righteous are scarecely saved. The saints are written into the Lamb's book of life. This is at a higher level...the level of the overcomers.
A careful study of the last few chapters of Revelation will go a long way towards understanding the different books. For example....IF all the wicked are dead after the final judgment....then why can only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life permitted entry. See what the word has to say about keeping the riff-raff out. What riff-raff you ask? Check it out.
I know that there are many here who do not distinguish between a salvation through feeding one of the least of Christ's brethren (Mat. 25 sheep goats judgment) and a holy life of overcoming with a consequent ruling and reigning with Christ. :ohwell
A careful study of the last few chapters of Revelation will go a long way towards understanding the different books. For example....IF all the wicked are dead after the final judgment....then why can only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life permitted entry. See what the word has to say about keeping the riff-raff out. What riff-raff you ask? Check it out.
I know that there are many here who do not distinguish between a salvation through feeding one of the least of Christ's brethren (Mat. 25 sheep goats judgment) and a holy life of overcoming with a consequent ruling and reigning with Christ. :ohwell
Adullam,Adullam said:There are actually two books of life mentioned in the bible. Of course the references are a bit cryptic. There is the book of life AND the Lamb's book of life. The latter book is for admittance into Jerusalem (the new) The book of life is for barest salvation. As in...the righteous are scarecely saved. The saints are written into the Lamb's book of life. This is at a higher level...the level of the overcomers.
A careful study of the last few chapters of Revelation will go a long way towards understanding the different books. For example....IF all the wicked are dead after the final judgment....then why can only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life permitted entry. See what the word has to say about keeping the riff-raff out. What riff-raff you ask? Check it out.
I know that there are many here who do not distinguish between a salvation through feeding one of the least of Christ's brethren (Mat. 25 sheep goats judgment) and a holy life of overcoming with a consequent ruling and reigning with Christ. :ohwell
The Lord has given me the same vision of his work. We are his workmanship. He appoints us all the place he has prepared for us to worship him and serve his body.
First the blood, which is sweet in the mouth. 30 fold. Common salvation. Forgiveness. Children. Known the Father.
Immediately the bitter water in the belly. 60 fold. Household of faith. Young men overcome the wicked one.
Then the Spirit of election and foreknowledge. 100 fold. Parenthood, know him who is from the beginning. Hope makes not ashamed because the love of God is shed abroad in the heart by the holy Spirit which is given unto us.
These three testify in earth.
Be of good courage in the Lord.
Joe
Adullam
Member
- Mar 28, 2009
- 2,175
- 2
Joe67 said:Adullam,Adullam said:There are actually two books of life mentioned in the bible. Of course the references are a bit cryptic. There is the book of life AND the Lamb's book of life. The latter book is for admittance into Jerusalem (the new) The book of life is for barest salvation. As in...the righteous are scarecely saved. The saints are written into the Lamb's book of life. This is at a higher level...the level of the overcomers.
A careful study of the last few chapters of Revelation will go a long way towards understanding the different books. For example....IF all the wicked are dead after the final judgment....then why can only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life permitted entry. See what the word has to say about keeping the riff-raff out. What riff-raff you ask? Check it out.
I know that there are many here who do not distinguish between a salvation through feeding one of the least of Christ's brethren (Mat. 25 sheep goats judgment) and a holy life of overcoming with a consequent ruling and reigning with Christ. :ohwell
The Lord has given me the same vision of his work. We are his workmanship. He appoints us all the place he has prepared for us to worship him and serve his body.
First the blood, which is sweet in the mouth. 30 fold. Common salvation. Forgiveness. Children. Known the Father.
Immediately the bitter water in the belly. 60 fold. Household of faith. Young men overcome the wicked one.
Then the Spirit of election and foreknowledge. 100 fold. Parenthood, know him who is from the beginning. Hope makes not ashamed because the love of God is shed abroad in the heart by the holy Spirit which is given unto us.
These three testify in earth.
Be of good courage in the Lord.
Joe
Agreed with the above, the book of life is Salvation from Adam to the white thrown judgement seat.
The Lambs book of life is for our election to have our souls live in Heaven after we die.
The first resurrection=the Lambs book of life,
The second resurrection = the book of life.
The Lambs book of life is for our election to have our souls live in Heaven after we die.
The first resurrection=the Lambs book of life,
The second resurrection = the book of life.
Similar threads
