Book of Revelation Written by John around 96AD

[for_his_glory]

Your reply just kept getting better and better, right up to the last sentence. Exactly. Age 55 and I am so bored with being told what I think, what I feel, who I am, what's wrong with me, I am in darkness, yadda yadda yadda . . .

I'm guessing that you're the same in that it doesn't take long to realize that you aren't going to get anywhere with a specific person, so why continue? It seems to me that attempting to peacefully walk away is the best thing to do. Yet at other forums, I have been blasted for not sticking around and trying to hash things out for weeks on end. I often wonder if people become addicted to arguing as if it gives them a purpose. I also often wonder if forums give some folks a platform to express their "confidence," or perhaps their sense of personal power. Another thought that just occurred is that our world has changed; we so boldly express our negative thoughts like never before. We are an agitated world.

I'm 68 and have enough drama in my life as now it is better to walk away when you have given all you can. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but to at least respect me and my understandings like I respect theirs's even if we disagree.

Revelations has been my passion for around 40 years and I even wrote a book on Revelation that you can find under End Time forums, subtitle Revelation. Many do not agree with what I have written and that doesn't bother me. Even Pastors and the early century theologians can not agree with each other. I just put it out there of what I believe and understand and that's all I can do.

 

[Mungo]

Mungo I don't know what you want me to say. If you believe it was another John and not the Apostle John that wrote these letters to the seven churches in Ephesus that make up the book of Revelation then so be it, but I also would appreciate you telling us who this other John is as it is not John the Baptist as he died shortly after Jesus started His ministry.

Ha! Now you are switching to discussion.
The questions you didn't answer were these:
"So which apostle wrote the Letter To The Hebrews?
Which apostle wrote the Gospel According to Mark?"

And don't just repeat "I can give you every name of each one who wrote the books of the Bible".
Anyone can do that.
For example - Matthew wrote every book in the NT.
But just a claim means nothing without evidence.

And you also didn't answer this one "How do you know which writings are inspired and therefore scripture?"

As to John - see posts #27 & #37

 

[for_his_glory]

Ha! Now you are switching to discussion.
The questions you didn't answer were these:
"So which apostle wrote the Letter To The Hebrews?
Which apostle wrote the Gospel According to Mark?"

And don't just repeat "I can give you every name of each one who wrote the books of the Bible".
Anyone can do that.
For example - Matthew wrote every book in the NT.
But just a claim means nothing without evidence.

And you also didn't answer this one "How do you know which writings are inspired and therefore scripture?"

As to John - see posts #27 & #37

Post #27 My New Jerome Biblical Commentary, a scholarly tome of some 1426 pages, spends several column inches on this. It concludes "It seems best to conclude that the author was an early Christian prophet by the name of John, otherwise unknown."

Post #37 My Bible says the identification with John the apostle was disputed by many early fathers, including Denis of Alexandria, Eusebius, Cyril of Jerusalem, Gregory Nazianzen and John Chrysostom. It suggest that it could have been written by a disciple of John the apostle, also called John. It also suggest the date is near the end of the reign of Domitian


Haven't switched to discussion as I have been discussing this all along. Your two postings show no evidence as in facts, but only speculation. Even the early century theologians could not agree with each other.


What is your source that Matthew wrote all of the NT as it is a fact that the NT was largley written by Paul, but also Matthew, Mark, Luke, John the Disciple of Christ, Paul, James, Peter and Jude.

Matthew wrote the book of Matthew
Mark wrote the book of Mark
Luke wrote the book of Luke and Acts
John the Apostle wrote the book of John, 1,2,3 John and Revelations
Paul wrote the book of Romans, 1, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1, 2 Thessalonians, 1, 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, (Hebrews is debated in who wrote this book)
James, the half brother of Jesus, (Matthew 13:55), wrote the book of James
Peter wrote the book of 1, 2 Peter, but used Silvanus to do the writing
Jude, known as Judas the half brother of Jesus (Matthew 13:55) and not Judas Iscariot wrote the book of Jude


What letter to the Hebrews are you talking about as all the Bible was written letters to the Hebrews by various writers from Moses to John.

I know the scriptures are all inspired as what God gave the Prophets and Apostles to write as what is written in 2 Timothy 3:16-17. It's only the Holy Spirit that reveals the scriptures to us in all truths. If you do not believe this verse then you can not believe anything that is written in the Bible. You either accept all of it or none of it.

 

[for_his_glory]

This is copied from The Opened Bible KJV that I use for my studies.

 

[Free]

Don’t forget 2 Pet 3:15-16:

2 Pet 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
2 Pet 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. (ESV)

Peter is equating Paul’s writings with the inspired writings of the OT. It is, therefore, reasonable to conclude that the rest of the NT can be considered inspired and authoritative as well.

 

[Mungo]

Post #27 My New Jerome Biblical Commentary, a scholarly tome of some 1426 pages, spends several column inches on this. It concludes "It seems best to conclude that the author was an early Christian prophet by the name of John, otherwise unknown."

Post #37 My Bible says the identification with John the apostle was disputed by many early fathers, including Denis of Alexandria, Eusebius, Cyril of Jerusalem, Gregory Nazianzen and John Chrysostom. It suggest that it could have been written by a disciple of John the apostle, also called John. It also suggest the date is near the end of the reign of Domitian


Haven't switched to discussion as I have been discussing this all along. Your two postings show no evidence as in facts, but only speculation. Even the early century theologians could not agree with each other.

Yes you have.

There were two separate discussions.
1. on who wrote Revelation
2. On inspiration and who wrote scripture.

In post #79 I pointed out that your didn't answer my questions on topic 2. and you replied in post #80 regarding topic 1.

What is your source that Matthew wrote all of the NT as it is a fact that the NT was largley written by Paul, but also Matthew, Mark, Luke, John the Disciple of Christ, Paul, James, Peter and Jude.

Matthew wrote the book of Matthew
Mark wrote the book of Mark
Luke wrote the book of Luke and Acts
John the Apostle wrote the book of John, 1,2,3 John and Revelations
Paul wrote the book of Romans, 1, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1, 2 Thessalonians, 1, 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, (Hebrews is debated in who wrote this book)
James, the half brother of Jesus, (Matthew 13:55), wrote the book of James
Peter wrote the book of 1, 2 Peter, but used Silvanus to do the writing
Jude, known as Judas the half brother of Jesus (Matthew 13:55) and not Judas Iscariot wrote the book of Jude

There is no internal evidence that Mark wrote the gospel under his name, that Paul wrote Hebrews, that Luke wrote the gospel attributed to him (orActs) etc.

Moreover you claim that NT scripture was written by apostles but neither Mark nor Luke were apostles.

What letter to the Hebrews are you talking about as all the Bible was written letters to the Hebrews by various writers from Moses to John.

I know the scriptures are all inspired as what God gave the Prophets and Apostles to write as what is written in 2 Timothy 3:16-17. It's only the Holy Spirit that reveals the scriptures to us in all truths. If you do not believe this verse then you can not believe anything that is written in the Bible. You either accept all of it or none of it.

Again you failed to answer my question

I asked "How do you know which writings are inspired and therefore scripture?"
You answered that all scripture is inspired

You didn't explain how you know something is scripture?


It seems fruitless to continue when it seems you do not want a rational, evidence based, discussion so I will leave this thread.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes you have.

There were two separate discussions.
1. on who wrote Revelation
2. On inspiration and who wrote scripture.

In post #79 I pointed out that your didn't answer my questions on topic 2. and you replied in post #80 regarding topic 1.





There is no internal evidence that Mark wrote the gospel under his name, that Paul wrote Hebrews, that Luke wrote the gospel attributed to him (orActs) etc.

Moreover you claim that NT scripture was written by apostles but neither Mark nor Luke were apostles.



Again you failed to answer my question

I asked "How do you know which writings are inspired and therefore scripture?"
You answered that all scripture is inspired

You didn't explain how you know something is scripture?


It seems fruitless to continue when it seems you do not want a rational, evidence based, discussion so I will leave this thread.

It is fruitless as you either accept the Bible as being inspired of God and that of who wrote each book or you reject them. It makes o difference to me. I have been trying to have a rational discussion with you and history is the evidence that I believe in what I have presented to you.

BTW, what do you use to study from since you seem to reject the Bible as being God given?

 

[Mungo]

It is fruitless as you either accept the Bible as being inspired of God and that of who wrote each book or you reject them. It makes o difference to me. I have been trying to have a rational discussion with you and history is the evidence that I believe in what I have presented to you.

BTW, what do you use to study from since you seem to reject the Bible as being God given?

I have never suggested the the Bible is not the inspired word of God and I deeply resent your attempt to claim I have done so.
A despicable act unworthy of a Staff member.
Goodbye.

 

[for_his_glory]

I have never suggested the the Bible is not the inspired word of God and I deeply resent your attempt to claim I have done so.
A despicable act unworthy of a Staff member.
Goodbye.

I am sorry I misunderstood you as in your question how do I know if the scriptures are inspired of God as I thought you meant that not all of scripture is valid.