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Born Again

JohnDB said:
John 3:7 has a poor translation within it.

This whole notion of being "born again" is really wrong. It's not mentioned or hinted at in the whole of scripture except in this one poorly translated section.

"Genethe Anothen" is the Greek/Early Latin translation for "Born from above" which is a Jewish concept about key individuals that God gave to his people.

It's a reference to key individuals like Moses, Samuel, John the Baptist, and Sampson to name a few.

Yes, I know that dictionaries have it translated as saying that it can mean "again" instead of "above" but that's due to the mass marketing campaign about being born again.

Once the proper Hermeneutics are applied to this passage most of the sermons on Nicodemus' social visit to Jesus. (Who wouldn't want that?) Is a vastly different story than often retold.

Nicodemus feared God. When he left Jesus he was frozen in emotional quicksand... Because he really believed. He did nothing except for helping Joseph of Arimathea...

Having God's full attention is not a comfortable place to be. Especially by the wise.
Click to expand...

Am I reading you right, you're saying poor translation but a birthing still needs to take place?
 
JohnDB said:
No, you are not reading me correctly.
Click to expand...
What are the differences in meaning between born again and born from above and where can one do further reading? It's odd to me that since the phrase literally means "born from above" I can't help but wonder why they still use "born again."
 
Born Again is a slogan of an evangelistic campaign based in part on a poorly translated section of scripture.
So where it is highly popular and well known it isn't an accurate idea promoted anywhere else in scripture except this one location of John 3:7 &9.

Genethe Anothen are the Greek/Early Latin words that form the words that literally mean "born from above". And have been translated this way in EVERY other sections of the New Covenant except the two passages in John.

BUT there's more....

In Jewish literature and writings and Theological understandings there existed a classification of all the heroes of the nation and faith...One of these include "Born from Above" and it was meaning that God had specifically caused you to be born to assist the Nation of Israel with important tasks. The list of these guys include such characters as Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Samuel, Sampson, and Etc.

Nicodemus was not getting scolded by Jesus. He knew all too well what Jesus was saying. He just didn't feel like he was all that special. He was sarcastic about it as well. (some people think that sarcasm is a 20th century invention and never written into the scriptures).

But to eisogete this "born again" into the scriptures radically changed the substance of what the discussion between the two men was. Where "Sound Byte Theology" is popular it just often isn't accurate.

Night time in Israel is social hour. The setting of the sun allows people to be social. It takes hours for it to become dark...Just like sunrise. The land is below sea level and covered in a humidity haze that refracts the light for a long time after the sun sets. So people actually get busier at this time than any other. The streets get more congested with restaurants and shopping.

Nicodemus making a social call on Jesus was not "in secret" or something sinister.
Nicodemus also gives Jesus full credit for the miracles performed. EVERYONE else who did so received a miracle of their own...And one only God could give.
 
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John 8:23 (KJV) And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. ​

The root/origin of the Greek word translated "again" in John 3:3,7 of the KJV.
 
Nathan said:
Johan,

Are you saying that God and Paul(or his message?) are what come together to "exchange" seed?
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God's Word is seed . . .going into the "wife" . . .and from her children is born.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Love Johan
 
Jim Parker said:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Right.
But, from what you posted, your meaning is undiscernable.
(edited by staff)


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.
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Actually . . .meaning is given by God . . . at the right time.

As He "discerns" perfectly

1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Love Johan
 
Johan said:
Actually . . .meaning is given by God . . . at the right time.
Click to expand...
I'm talking about what YOU post.
Because of the way you post in broken sentence fragments, I am unable to determine what you mean to say.
And I know you can write in complete sentences because I looked at what you wrote in your profile.

So, please, help me out here.

iakov the fool
 
Paul declares that we who have received Christ as Saviour are New Creations in Christ Jesus.
Nicodemus was a teacher and leader of Israel.
Jesus said to him "ye (plural) must be born again
(From above), and this was before the cross.
To see the kingdom Israel will be born from above
by the grace of God as we read in Heb. 8:10-12, quoting from Jer. 31:31-34,
"This is the covenent that I will make with thehouse of Israel after those days, says the Lord:
I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on
their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be
my people. And they shall not teach every one his
fellow or every one his brother, saying 'Know the Lord,'
For all shall know me, from the least of them to the greatest. For I will be merciful toward their iniquities,
and I will remember their sins no more."
 
Jim Parker said:
I'm talking about what YOU post.
Because of the way you post in broken sentence fragments, I am unable to determine what you mean to say.
And I know you can write in complete sentences because I looked at what you wrote in your profile.

So, please, help me out here.

iakov the fool
Click to expand...

I do know that words are not everything as God came to earth in Jesus to show us what He meant. So actually our life is also a witness to what we are preaching and that is making it authentic. Because where people see what you are talking about and you explain why your life is as it is it is much easier. Now to just preach without witnessing is more difficult to comprehend because the life is absent. But this is a discussion forum and not a witness as witness will have to be done in a different way.

Seems that the problem is with the "wife"

I wrote some more on that topic
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/his-wife.68761/


Love Johan
 
Johan said:
I do know that words are not everything as God came to earth in Jesus to show us what He meant. So actually our life is also a witness to what we are preaching and that is making it authentic. Because where people see what you are talking about and you explain why your life is as it is it is much easier. Now to just preach without witnessing is more difficult to comprehend because the life is absent. But this is a discussion forum and not a witness as witness will have to be done in a different way.

Seems that the problem is with the "wife"

I wrote some more on that topic
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/his-wife.68761/


Love Johan
Click to expand...
You are not insinuating that God has a 'wife' based on "research" such as this......:
http://www.seeker.com/gods-wife-edited-out-of-the-bible-almost-1766083399.html?slide=QYoAVd
"After years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel, however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some, uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added.

Stavrakopoulou bases her theory on ancient texts, amulets and figurines unearthed primarily in the ancient Canaanite coastal city called Ugarit, now modern-day Syria. All of these artifacts reveal that Asherah was a powerful fertility goddess.
.....are you?
 
civilwarbuff said:
You are not insinuating that God has a 'wife' based on "research" such as this......:
http://www.seeker.com/gods-wife-edited-out-of-the-bible-almost-1766083399.html?slide=QYoAVd
"After years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel, however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some, uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added.

Stavrakopoulou bases her theory on ancient texts,
amulets and figurines unearthed primarily in the ancient Canaanite coastal city called Ugarit, now modern-day Syria. All of these artifacts reveal that Asherah was a powerful fertility goddess.
.....are you?
Click to expand...

You are not insinuating that God has a 'wife' based on "research" such as this......:
http://www.seeker.com/gods-wife-edited-out-of-the-bible-almost-1766083399.html?slide=QYoAVd
"After years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel, however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some, uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added.

I DO NOT SEE ANY COMPARISON . . .EXCEPT MAYBE THE IDEA

Stavrakopoulou bases her theory on ancient texts,

WHAT I GAVE WAS REVELATION BASED ON SPIRITUAL GROWTH . . .WHICH WAS DERIVED FROM THE BIBLE

STATING VERY CLEARLY THAT GOD IS ONE. . . SO WHERE DOES THIS SECOND "WIFE-GOD" COMES FROM NOW?

amulets and figurines unearthed primarily in the ancient Canaanite coastal city called Ugarit, now modern-day Syria. All of these artifacts reveal that Asherah was a powerful fertility goddess.

LOVE JOHAN
 
Johan said:
I do know that words are not everything as God came to earth in Jesus to show us what He meant. So actually our life is also a witness to what we are preaching and that is making it authentic. Because where people see what you are talking about and you explain why your life is as it is it is much easier. Now to just preach without witnessing is more difficult to comprehend because the life is absent. But this is a discussion forum and not a witness as witness will have to be done in a different way.
Seems that the problem is with the "wife"
I wrote some more on that topic
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/his-wife.68761/
Love Johan
Click to expand...
Was that intended for me?
It didn't address anything of what I wrote.
Oh well....
 
Jim Parker said:
Was that intended for me?
It didn't address anything of what I wrote.
Oh well....
Click to expand...
ok I will try again.

You wrote:
I'm talking about what YOU post.
Because of the way you post in broken sentence fragments, I am unable to determine what you mean to say.
And I know you can write in complete sentences because I looked at what you wrote in your profile.

So, please, help me out here.

So I wrote:

I do know that words are not everything as God came to earth in Jesus to show us what He meant. So actually our life is also a witness to what we are preaching and that is making it authentic. Because where people see what you are talking about and you explain why your life is as it is it is much easier. Now to just preach without witnessing is more difficult to comprehend because the life is absent. But this is a discussion forum and not a witness as witness will have to be done in a different way.

By this I meant that Jesus was a witness of what He told the people.

Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

So He was the manifestation of what He preached. Without that it would have been impossible for the human beings to understand Him. You are therefor at a disadvantage because you do not actually see the thing I am speaking about. Because when you something, and it is explained you will obviously understand better. That was what Jesus was talking about in the above quotation. So I should show you and explain. This I can do but not in this forum as this forum is not for that purpose. But before we start walking that way I give the next help.

Seems that the problem is with the "wife"
I wrote some more on that topic
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/his-wife.68761/

So in the above I am trying to help you with understanding what I am saying or prophesying about.

If you want more I will devise a way to show you and explain.

Love Johan
 
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