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Boy who claimed he went to heaven recants

Kathi said:
Can you show me scripture that John was only having a vision and not actually transported to heaven?
Click to expand...

Revelation 1
9 I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet,

.
 
Gary said:
Revelation 1
9 I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet,

.
Click to expand...
"From chapters 1-3 the scene is on earth (Rev 1:10). Rev 4:1,2 shows that John was taken up to Heaven and saw the throne of God. Everything after that is visions in Heaven, but showing things on earth as well as in Heaven"
The above quote is from Malachi.
 
I think the point everyone is overlooking with the resurrections Jesus performed, ...first it was indisputable, tangible proof that God had left Eternity and intervened in this time-space dimension we humans live in, second it was to prove He was God which glorified the Father.

The problem I have with the so called return from the dead stories, first God has proved without a shadow of doubt He visited earth with His own Resurrection and second He is now in Heaven, so who is resurrecting these people, if they were actually dead? Certainly not Jesus, because He is in Heaven and even though this power has been given to the Church, the glory is going to the person and they are profiting from it, ...if it was the working of the Holy Spirit through the Church then the Church would give the glory to Jesus, but so far, to my knowledge, that has never been the case.
 
Kathi said:
"From chapters 1-3 the scene is on earth (Rev 1:10). Rev 4:1,2 shows that John was taken up to Heaven and saw the throne of God. Everything after that is visions in Heaven, but showing things on earth as well as in Heaven"
The above quote is from Malachi.
Click to expand...

Not to be argumentative, but why do the have to be visions, why couldn't he have seen the actual events as they were enfolding in time on this planet, but with his first century vocabulary couldn't explain accurately what he saw.

Here is how I look at it, if I'm watching a parade I can see maybe one or two floats to the left of me and to the right, but if I were to go over the parade in a helicopter I could see the beginning, middle and the end. Since John was caught up to Heaven he was in Eternity, there is no time in Eternity, everything is now, so John could of seen everything as it was taking place, unfolding on earth. What adds even more credence to the point it was nor a vision, but real, is he heard seven thunders and was told seal them up, that is a physical action, and not to write down what he had heard, that could not of been a vision because for John that was real, ...I personally believe he was given a supernatural look into the future.
 
Kathi said:
"From chapters 1-3 the scene is on earth (Rev 1:10). Rev 4:1,2 shows that John was taken up to Heaven and saw the throne of God. Everything after that is visions in Heaven, but showing things on earth as well as in Heaven"
The above quote is from Malachi.
Click to expand...

That passage also shows that John was in the Spirit when that happened.

Revelation 4
1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.”
2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne.

.
 
Karl said:
I think the point everyone is overlooking with the resurrections Jesus performed, ...first it was indisputable, tangible proof that God had left Eternity and intervened in this time-space dimension we humans live in, second it was to prove He was God which glorified the Father.

The problem I have with the so called return from the dead stories, first God has proved without a shadow of doubt He visited earth with His own Resurrection and second He is now in Heaven, so who is resurrecting these people, if they were actually dead? Certainly not Jesus, because He is in Heaven and even though this power has been given to the Church, the glory is going to the person and they are profiting from it, ...if it was the working of the Holy Spirit through the Church then the Church would give the glory to Jesus, but so far, to my knowledge, that has never been the case.
Click to expand...
Who is healing people? Jesus, from heaven.
Who is protecting us? Jesus, from heaven.
 
Gary said:
That passage also shows that John was in the Spirit when that happened.
.
Click to expand...
Isn't that what we're saying? That a person's spirit comes out of their body, goes on a trip, then returns.
 
KevinK said:
Isn't that what we're saying? That a person's spirit comes out of their body, goes on a trip, then returns.
Click to expand...

John wasn't dead. What happened to him cannot be compared to a NDE.
 
KevinK said:
How do we know he wasn't dead?
Click to expand...

The bible doesn't say he was dead. To assume he was dead would be adding things to scripture. Things that we aren't really sure are correct.

Do you see what I'm saying?

.
 
john would have said he died , but he didn't he said I fell to the ground as though dead that was in reaction the glory of the son.
 
Kathi said:
https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/boy-who-claimed-he-went-to-heaven-recants-108278459057.html

The best-selling book that documents a 6-year-old’s journey to heaven and back during the two months he spent in a coma is being pulled from shelves after the boy, who is now 17, recanted his story.

Alex Malarkey, the co-author of The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven with his father, Kevin Malarkey, was in a car crash in 2004 that left him paralyzed. The memoir, published in 2010 as part of the popular “heavenly tourism genre,” detailed his accounts of talking to Jesus Christ and meeting with the devil. Since its publication, the book has sold more than one million copies, according to the Washington Post.
Click to expand...
A million or more people will now be disappointed.
 
Kathi said:
https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/boy-who-claimed-he-went-to-heaven-recants-108278459057.html

The best-selling book that documents a 6-year-old’s journey to heaven and back during the two months he spent in a coma is being pulled from shelves after the boy, who is now 17, recanted his story.

Alex Malarkey, the co-author of The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven with his father, Kevin Malarkey, was in a car crash in 2004 that left him paralyzed. The memoir, published in 2010 as part of the popular “heavenly tourism genre,” detailed his accounts of talking to Jesus Christ and meeting with the devil. Since its publication, the book has sold more than one million copies, according to the Washington Post.
Click to expand...
Sorry my post is in the wrong thread.
 
Gary said:
The bible doesn't say he was dead. To assume he was dead would be adding things to scripture. Things that we aren't really sure are correct.

Do you see what I'm saying?

.
Click to expand...
I think I've lost track what anyone is saying in this thread. Everyone is answering everyone else's questions, and we're not supposed to be debating in the Lounge in the first place.
 
KevinK said:
I think I've lost track what anyone is saying in this thread. Everyone is answering everyone else's questions, and we're not supposed to be debating in the Lounge in the first place.
Click to expand...

I thought we were just talking.
.
 
KevinK said:
I don't know what you're saying there, Kath. Can you reload that one a little less Hemingway-esque?
Click to expand...
This is what you said
"Isn't that what we're saying? That a person's spirit comes out of their body, goes on a trip, then returns".
I am saying that was the Apostle John who took that brief trip to heaven in Revelation.That is different than saying that could happen to us.
 
Gary said:
John wasn't dead. What happened to him cannot be compared to a NDE.
Click to expand...
I actually brought up John's account in Revelation as an example of a person's spirit going to Heaven (or could be Hell) and then returning to their body on earth. This is regardless of whether they died or not. Not that they just saw a vision, that they actually went there. OBEs are explicit examples of a person going to a spritiual destination with their body definitely not dying.
 
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