Christian apologists make the assumption that the Bible is perfect.
That is a huge assumption to make.
That is a huge assumption to make.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Brainwashing
- Thread starter humble soul
- Start date
good...thought provoking...but atheists wont be satisfied....i believe the Ressurection occurred anyway. but that is more intuition than reason.
Not at all. When you make assertions without evidence, you need to learn that these are your opinions and not verified evidence.
By the way, your response was a Red Herring Fallacy because you redirected the argument to another issue, 'obviously touched a nerve there' when I wrote 'And you provided zero evidence, so this is your opinion that has not been substantiated by exegesis and examination of textual criticism'.
Yours was a deliberate diversion of attention away from what I stated. It seems like you tried to abandon the argument I pursued.
Now get back to providing the evidence for your statement: 'I think NT is more reliable than OT'. I'm waiting for your verified evidence to support your opinion.
Oz
Others might be impressed Oz. I'm not.
humble soul,
This is not such a humble assessment.
My, oh my, how many of Geisler's 100 books he wrote or co-authored and hundreds of articles, have you read?
Have you read these enormous 4 vols of systematic theology and the early church fathers he quotes?
I think you speak out of ignorance of the content of Geisler's voluminous writings. I encourage you not to make such hasty judgments about someone whose writings you seem to be unaware of.
Oz
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To what post are you referring? Please learn to back quote if you refer to a post I made.
So don't you believe these Scriptures are true?
Are you saying wrongdoers, the sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who have sex with men, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers and swindlers should not be told the truth of their eternal destinies?
These sinners will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Oz
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im not gay by the way
Why? Jesus taught by quoting the OT
Which Old Testament Book Did Jesus Quote From
blog.biblia.com
Jesus quoted from:
Exodus 3:6.............Matthew 22:32; Mark 12:26; Luke 20:37
20:12-16.................Matthew 15:14; 19:18, 19; Mark 7:10; 10:19; Luke 18:20
21:24......................Matthew 5:38
Isaiah 6:9-10.........Matthew 13:14, 15; Mark 4:12; Luke 8:10
56:7.......................Matthew 21:13; Mark 11:17; Luke 19:46
29:13.....................Matthew 15:8, 9; Mark 7:6, 7
5:1.........................Matthew 21:33; Mark 12:1; Luke 20:9
53:12.....................Luke 22:37
54:13.....................John 6:45
61:1, 2...................Matthew 11:5; Luke 4:18, 19; 7:22
Deuteronomy
6:5........................Matthew 22:37; Mark 12:29-33; Luke 10:27
24:1-3...................Matthew 5:31; 19:7; Mark 10:4
19:15....................Matthew 4:4, 7, 10; Luke 4:4, 8, 12
Psalms
82:2; 110:1...........Matthew 21:21:16; 22:44; Mark 12:36; 14:62; Luke 20:42, 43
22:1......................Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34
31:5......................Luke 23:46
35:19; 69:4..........John 15:25
41:9.....................John 13:18
78:24...................John 6:31
82:6.....................John 10:34
110:1...................Matthew 26:64
118:22, 23...........Matthew 21:42; Mark 12:10; Luke 20:17
118:26.................Matthew 23:39; Luke 13:35
If you go to that website it will give you more greater detail
There are five requirements to Salvation
1. Confession - Acts 2:21; Romans 10:9, 10
2. Repentance - Mark 1:14, 15
3. Faith - John 3:14-18
4. Regeneration - John 3:3-8
5. Holy Scripture - 2 Timothy 3:15
There is no brainwashing when it comes to having a personal one on one relationship with Jesus through the Spiritual rebirth and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit
1. Confession - Acts 2:21; Romans 10:9, 10
2. Repentance - Mark 1:14, 15
3. Faith - John 3:14-18
4. Regeneration - John 3:3-8
5. Holy Scripture - 2 Timothy 3:15
There is no brainwashing when it comes to having a personal one on one relationship with Jesus through the Spiritual rebirth and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit
Leviticus Joshua and Judges turned me off OT. Legalism violence and an angry God. But i do like Exodus and the Prophets.
We either accept the whole of scripture or none of scripture as we can not pick out the parts we only like. God's laws keep us in line in His perfect will for us. When we transgress the laws of God it is we who are found guilty of disobedience to God's commands. God's is justified in coming against His enemies as they bring God's judgement upon themselves as their hearts have turned wicked in all their imaginations, Jeremiah 7:23, 24. God is not a God of violence and anger, but a just God in all His judgements.
You said you like Exodus. What about the 10 plagues in Exodus 10:1-20 and the killing of the first born of the Egyptians in Exodus chapter 11, 12. Was this God being violent and angry, or was it God's judgement brought on by that of Pharaohs wicked heart against the Israelites?
i dont believe Exodus is a historical fact. i like the imagery and metaphors.
Freedom from sin freedom from slavery.
Not_Now.Soon
Member
As long as you believe in what Jesus did, and have faith in Him, then everything else we don't understand, or don't agree with still has time to get settled and streightened out.
As I've heard some say, God's not done with us yet. One day you might have to face the book of Exodus in a different way, because you've gained more respect and trust for what God's done and able to do. Nothing is impossible for Him. With that in mind I've changed a lot of my previous views about the bible and it's reliablity because I've seen in a small way what God can do. There's no reason from that stand point to not consider Exodus to be historical as well as spiritually a good teacher for us.
Spiritual truths are more important to me than historical facts.
Not_Now.Soon
Member
Learning from the bible is more important then accepting it as historically reliable. I agree with you there. However, when it gets to the point of descerning if one thing is reliable or if it should be ignored, that's the point when you have to really consider how much you trust and rely on what's said in the bible. How can you mean from something if you never think it was true? How can you trust God if we are the judge and silent censor for what is really from God and what isn't?
Like I said. There's a growth in trusting God. Both in trusting the bible, and trusting Him in other ways. There might be a time when just learning spiritual lessons aren't enough, you have to face the issue of believing God or believing something you hear in life.
Not_Now.Soon
Member
The Parable of the sower is something to consider when it comes to relying on the Bible (or any message from God) and how people can lose they way from believing it, trusting it, or following it.
Something to consider. You can find this parable in Mathew 13:1-23, Mark 4:1-20, and Luke 8:4-15. For reference here's the parable from Luke, because it's the shortest to read.
Something to consider. You can find this parable in Mathew 13:1-23, Mark 4:1-20, and Luke 8:4-15. For reference here's the parable from Luke, because it's the shortest to read.
JohnDB
Member
It's written...
Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness.
Faith is required for righteousness...nothing more or less. But faith causes holy lifestyles and actions. Otherwise it isn't faith but a lack of hostility towards a set of beliefs.
So either you believe God or you don't.
You can either believe that a chair is good for resting in by the testimony of others...
or you can ask for an engineering report that specifies someone of your specific size and weight and bone structure looking for any errors the engineers might have made... to the point of tentively sitting nervously in it for a couple of minutes...not exactly resting.
You got a choice of reaction...one is faith...one is imitation faith.
Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness.
Faith is required for righteousness...nothing more or less. But faith causes holy lifestyles and actions. Otherwise it isn't faith but a lack of hostility towards a set of beliefs.
So either you believe God or you don't.
You can either believe that a chair is good for resting in by the testimony of others...
or you can ask for an engineering report that specifies someone of your specific size and weight and bone structure looking for any errors the engineers might have made... to the point of tentively sitting nervously in it for a couple of minutes...not exactly resting.
You got a choice of reaction...one is faith...one is imitation faith.
As I said before I approach the Bible more intuitively than objectively. I'm less interested in what facts I can gather. Rather I want to take away wisdom which guides my life.
This is why monks do "lectio divina". They want to discern what God is actually saying to them.
Of course I will show some interest in what actually happened. But find preoccupation with facts is distracting from the main message.
This is why monks do "lectio divina". They want to discern what God is actually saying to them.
Of course I will show some interest in what actually happened. But find preoccupation with facts is distracting from the main message.
humble,
You seem to be saying or inferring that the Israelites did not see the plagues against Pharaoh and were not led through the Red Sea to Canaan with the Egyptians killed in the Red Sea.
What causes you to think this didn't happen historically as recorded in Exodus and that these are only 'imagery and metaphors'?
I'd be interested in knowing your criteria for determining if something is a metaphor and not an historical event?
Don't you believe in God performing supernatural miracles?
Oz