Brainwashing

[for_his_glory]

i dont believe Exodus is a historical fact. i like the imagery and metaphors.
Freedom from sin freedom from slavery.

Are you saying then that you do not believe in the passover and that of the Israelites were being redeemed from bondage in Egypt. Exodus records God's overwhelming acts of deliverance to show His enemies His sovereignty as in "I AM".

If we don't believe the exodus as a historical fact then we can't believe anything that is written in scripture as being historical. Is Jesus a historical fact or just a legend to you and how can you prove this as fact or fiction? We believe all scripture is inspired by God and is truth as the Holy Spirit reveals all the mysteries to us.

We believe by faith: Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Like I said, you can't just pick out the parts you like as we need the whole for understanding.

 

[humble soul]

well the parting of the Red Sea for one....sorry thats just symbolic...for us being saved by water. Beautiful though. just love the imagery.

 

[for_his_glory]

well the parting of the Red Sea for one....sorry thats just symbolic...for us being saved by water. Beautiful though. just love the imagery.

Many things in scripture is literal and symbolic at the same time. Revelation is a great example of this. It's only your opinion as you see the parting of The Red Sea as only being symbolic. To many of us we take it very literally that the Red Sea was parted by God in order for the Israelites to cross over to Canaan/Israel as as Egypt and Canaan was separated by the sea.

 

[JohnDB]

Many things in scripture is literal and symbolic at the same time. Revelation is a great example of this. It's only your opinion as you see the parting of The Red Sea as only being symbolic. To many of us we take it very literally that the Red Sea was parted by God in order for the Israelites to cross over to Canaan/Israel as as Egypt and Canaan was separated by the sea.

Also it would have been impossible to "metaphorically" cross the Jordan River at flood stage coming from the desert to conquer the Promised Land. It required a literal crossing.

 

[for_his_glory]

Also it would have been impossible to "metaphorically" cross the Jordan River at flood stage coming from the desert to conquer the Promised Land. It required a literal crossing.

It's not like they had time to build any boats while being pursued by the enemy on their heals.

 

[JohnDB]

It's not like they had time to build any boats while being pursued by the enemy on their heals.

That supply of trees was a mite thin too. Especially for 6 million people.

 

[jasonc]

Leviticus Joshua and Judges turned me off OT. Legalism violence and an angry God. But i do like Exodus and the Prophets.

Exodus where God slays the firstborn ,orders a few tribes wiped out ,the prophets who judge isreal for being worse then the nation's around them and warned them and wrote down the horrific judgment by,God .

 

[jasonc]

It's written...
Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness.

Faith is required for righteousness...nothing more or less. But faith causes holy lifestyles and actions. Otherwise it isn't faith but a lack of hostility towards a set of beliefs.
So either you believe God or you don't.

You can either believe that a chair is good for resting in by the testimony of others...

or you can ask for an engineering report that specifies someone of your specific size and weight and bone structure looking for any errors the engineers might have made... to the point of tentively sitting nervously in it for a couple of minutes...not exactly resting.

You got a choice of reaction...one is faith...one is imitation faith.

That new bridge might not hold...

 

[humble soul]

Exodus where God slays the firstborn ,orders a few tribes wiped out ,the prophets who judge isreal for being worse then the nation's around them and warned them and wrote down the horrific judgment by,God .

you are right. that does spoil Exodus. ok im off exodus too.

 

[JohnDB]

you are right. that does spoil Exodus. ok im off exodus too.

Any idea about why Martin Luther started the Reformation?
What was the mysterious book he found chained in the Book Repository that he had never read or heard of before?
What was the state of morality before his discovery and the state of morality after his discovery?

 

[humble soul]

Any idea about why Martin Luther started the Reformation?
What was the mysterious book he found chained in the Book Repository that he had never read or heard of before?
What was the state of morality before his discovery and the state of morality after his discovery?

No diarhea

 

[JohnDB]

No diarhea

The easiest way to repeat history is to not know it.

 

[humble soul]

The easiest way to repeat history is to not know it.

very wise. as long as we know we are getting a factual history and not someone's bias.

 

[Christ_empowered]

brainwashing is a part of life. LOL. seriously, though...even movies, popular music, TV programs...fill our heads with stuff that may not be true, or may be a slanted version of the truth, enough truth to create a sound byte with not necessary analysis....

on and on it goes. schools are definitely brainwashing places. it isn't just about learning, its about accepting and internalizing, then acting out, values and belief systems. I think it intensifies in middle-school, then the uptick into high school...college is definitely brainwash time, too.

Being a Christian does not equal being brainwashed, but some churches (and church-y TV programs, ministries, etc.) do brainwash people. I don't mean they brainwash them to be violent, just...to build barriers against reality. but not so much with Jesus, what I've seen and experienced has been more like...they love Jesus, they also have their own (usually right wing) belief system, they combine the two and then brainwash people.

I like humble soul post about feeling ostracized if he was gay, because...I was ostracized in conservative Christian circles, for being gay. It wasn't rough, in your face homophobia, but...it wasn't fun, either.

 

[humble soul]

brainwashing is a part of life. LOL. seriously, though...even movies, popular music, TV programs...fill our heads with stuff that may not be true, or may be a slanted version of the truth, enough truth to create a sound byte with not necessary analysis....

I think we would be surprised to discover how brainwashed we really are.
I mean media will really blow up how dangerous it is in America these days for example.
It looks like the wild west to me with gun ownership. People packing a gun when they visit the localsupermarket??
But Im sure in reality America is overall a very safe place to live.

 

[OzSpen]

well the parting of the Red Sea for one....sorry thats just symbolic...for us being saved by water. Beautiful though. just love the imagery.

Who said so? Is this your making up the symbol and imagery?

Do you want me to read your posts as symbolic imagery?

I'm thinking of your post above:

​

I think we would be surprised to discover how brainwashed we really are.​

I mean media will really blow up how dangerous it is in America these days for example.​

It looks like the wild west to me with gun ownership. People packing a gun when they visit the localsupermarket??​

But Im sure in reality America is overall a very safe place to live.​

What a beautiful picture you've given of the overflowing feeling of the brain with all of this media information. I want more and more of this gorgeous media output that may be dangerous to you. But it's exhilarating to me.

Thank you for reminding me of this symbol of the wild west and gun ownership, that is an explosive example of God's awesome power.

Safe havens are great places to be. You gave a symbol of the greatest safe haven - heaven itself.

Oz

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

you are right. that does spoil Exodus. ok im off exodus too.

What books have you not censored out of reading. Not that
I agree with your position, but if we start with something as a foundation then we can discuss that more and move on to the other books that you consider suspect.

I warn you though. The love of God and the judgment of God is throughout the bible. At some point you might just have to accept that God dishes out some hard punishments. That isn't going to go away if you only accept the new Testiment. The point that sometimes makes it easier is sometimes we get some context for those punishments and it is explained better. Other times it's not and we have to trust God's judgement anyways.

Either way, give a few books you'd be ok reading and talking about. I can try and start a thread on one of those books in the bible study section.

 

[OzSpen]

Im watching Norman Geisner now.
He is good but I have some strong reservations about his approach.
Too dogmatic. Doesnt want to admit any doubts.
"Jesus said the Bible was infallible. " I dont remember reading that in the Bible.
500 witnesses to Jesus being the Son of God?? questionable stats.
overall not impressed oz

And you're not dogmatic. Reread what you wrote at #4: 'Im (sic) not convinced the whole of the Bible is truth'.

You can't get much more dogmatic than that.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

very wise. as long as we know we are getting a factual history and not someone's bias.

It doesn't sound like factual history is what your interested in. Just from what you've written so far it sounds like you want a theological foundation more then a foundation on what is factual and reliable. Just be careful with that. There's a lot of bias in theology. Makes the topic of brainwashing a different level of a topic because it can just be people's philosophy dressed up religous like without anything to be a standard and correct it if it's wrong.

The best way to get away from brainwashing type of situations is to be able to test a philosophy against something more reliable to see if it stands true. If it doesn't that should be enough of a wake up call to reconsider it and not be brainwashed. (You might still agree with it or you might disagree with it after consideration, but it won't be because of "brainwashing"). Honestly I still think the term is just sensational hype to accuse others of when someone disagrees with another person.

 

[humble soul]

And you're not dogmatic. Reread what you wrote at #4: 'Im (sic) not convinced the whole of the Bible is truth'.

You can't get much more dogmatic than that.

you must have your own definition of dogmatic.
"im not convinced....." is an open assertion waiting for further data//proof/persuasion.
"The Bible is the whole truth, nothing but the truth , so help me God." is a dogmatic statement.
see the difference? Geisler was full of arrogant similar dogma. A real turn off imo.