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Bride Price

Rollo Tamasi said:
Now we're talking social security and IRAs.
I guess the bride price is deeper than I thought.
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Insurance and IRAs are the modern equivalent of the bride price. Almost no one uses the bride price system to protect their family today.

Although, perhaps we should go back to the old ways?
 
Michael74 said:
Insurance and IRAs are the modern equivalent of the bride price. Almost no one uses the bride price system to protect their family today.

Although, perhaps we should go back to the old ways?
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Definitely.
Social Security is almost dead and IRAs is nothing more than a form of gambling.
 
jasonc said:
I should ask my dad. he would know that stuff.
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I'm sure he knows about the 'Ketubah', marriage contract, which is rather like a per-nuptual agreeement, a promise the groom makes and the bride accepts.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/532557/jewish/Ketubah.htm
This is a modern ketubah that the rabbis have added some to but when looking at Moses' Law the basics are there in the Law.
I still looking for the photo of the one that is several centuries old.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/477336/jewish/The-Ketubah-Marriage-Contract.htm
 
Michael74 said:
In the old days, a young man was required to save up for his family's future support before he was allowed to marry. Today, it is voluntary.



Varies by state. In many states, insurance goes to whoever is named as beneficiary on the documents, without passing through probate. Ditto for IRAs. Taxable accounts and homes are decided by the probate judge following state law. Trusts are nice if the recipient is not good at managing money. A responsible trustee can be named to give them a monthly income, pay bills, or whatever.

This all varies by state though. A local lawyer would be needed to advise you on what works best to protect your family in your state.
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Im saying that about trust as that is what jag says. if you have an estate worth over 100 grand. get a trust. a trust is something tis way more elicit then any will. my wife has no say, gets nothing in the trust that im a recipient off. its lists who gets what and how long. grandparents named my mom, and all cranmans but no spouses in the trust and what else was done with the estate. what happened to the funds upon the death of the beneficiary. a will may or may not be that explicit. besides one can get divorces, wills and trust done by a paralegal.
 
Michael74 said:
Its far from a perfect system. All such systems depend upon how well the trustees administer it. With the old system, the eldest son might do a good job as trustee, or squander it like the prodigal son in the parable.. Collective insurance systems work only as good as the trustees administering them make them work. Voters need to tell their elected representatives what they want, and make sure they follow through.
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the point is the democrats will bash what the free market does but yet they are WORSE with the government doing it. if the government steals your money. what is your recourse? nothing! if the free market takes it the government can deal with them. that is my case. rather then cede that to do the state you can purchase disability insurance( I have it at work at little cost an it pays out more until I collect ssi, at a higher rate of what I make from my income. which is going to be more then what ss will give.)

again I know a lot about medicare, social security. Tricare which I have is a form of medicare. It pays the same rates as medicare but is more readily taken. when I die. if today. my pension of the city I work for isn't lost in that my wife cant get it.she does at the rate we agreed to. same with my military pension. not so with ss. it is stolen from here. she gets what from them? the higher rate. ok. what I made less? so she keeps her rate and the bills just disappear? that is how it works. I call that robbery. do you get the idea. a tax, to SAVE, a TAX to save. you if you are self employed must pay you ssi and medicare taxes and match them which with ssi is 13% of your income given to the government and you might not live long enough to get it. with an ira or 401k if you put that there you can be sure that what is in there at the time of death is given to your named beneficiary. at death what does ss give as well 250 bucks.
 
Germany's form of social safety net is a better way they take no money from you just match what you must give to a pension system and you can at your death give that fund to your kids or beneficiary thus increasing there retirement funds. its not a tax. that is what I was told. the concept of some safety net doesn't bother me its how its named and in deception in America that I have and issue with.
 
Michael74 said:
JAG lawyers would know your state's laws. Follow their advice.
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they say that about all 50.
jag offices that we go to at mob aren't in florida but in whatever state they are at when we have that day of admin stuff. in my case the final check was in new jersey and it was reservists there that did the wills. poa and other things.
 
https://www.metlife.com/individual/insurance/disability-insurance/index.html
its not that hard to have a person research where to place their money if they are taught about that . I learned from the army.from me my wife has learned and told her kids to do the same. she purchased another insurance plan separate from me as my guard private insurance doesn't give her much as she is over 50 and that leaves me in some form of financial shape if I leave the guard and she passes.i have insurance that will travel with me when I retire.
 
jasonc said:
...with an ira or 401k if you put that there you can be sure that what is in there at the time of death is given to your named beneficiary....
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That is an advantage for the 401k or IRA. The disadvantage is that if you live to be 100, you may run out of money. Theoretically, you will never run out of Social Security, regardless of how long you live.

Right now we have both systems running side by side. You can save as much as you want to in your IRA and taxable accounts for your family. You have Social Security as a back up if make it to 100.
 
jasonc said:
Germany's form of social safety net is a better way they take no money from you just match what you must give to a pension system...
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Germany pairs that system with a determination to prevent inflation so that their savings will actually be worth something at retirement. They learned the importance of that from Weimar. Never again.

Savings can work for retirment, as long as a country has a commitment to consistent weights and measures, as the Bible commands.
 
Michael74 said:
Germany pairs that system with a determination to prevent inflation so that their savings will actually be worth something at retirement. They learned the importance of that from Weimar. Never again.

Savings can work for retirment, as long as a country has a commitment to consistent weights and measures, as the Bible commands.
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gold doesn't increase in value , money borrowed on gold or not does or doesn't. gold fluctuates in pricing it has gone up or down, but we have but beat that value. my point was is that with Germany you have something and the ratio of workers to those on the pension are as needed. you have to have that with the American system its a pay as you go system, Germany system isn't. if I had gold and put that in the savings and its named to you centuries later. the german government cant touch it!
 
Michael74 said:
That is an advantage for the 401k or IRA. The disadvantage is that if you live to be 100, you may run out of money. Theoretically, you will never run out of Social Security, regardless of how long you live.

Right now we have both systems running side by side. You can save as much as you want to in your IRA and taxable accounts for your family. You have Social Security as a back up if make it to 100.
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theoretically? ss will fail to pay full benefits for all in 2033. why that is when I turn 60. we can discuss if retirement is biblical and its not really mentioned. I don't think god intended man to simply retire. I don't mind the concept but really there is a case against it. retiring from gods work? ok pastors can retire? I do think honestly after a chat with a friend that we don't work for the system but god , I know that I have said that. if I worked for the government only. I would have quit along time ago and or been poor in work.so I ask how does one if they see that think that one can retire? you cant you just switched employment.

there is some statistic that says most retirees drop within five years of work in some lines of work if they are sedentary.
 
jasonc said:
read the 613 laws and show me what It says about the dowry. its not mentioned in that area. divorce is there but nothing on the dowry itself.
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You're right, I can't find it there either. I'll keep looking, I should have bookmarked those sites. :neutral They gave the Biblical scriptures for it. Part of it was base on the Law of Moses, that I am sure of. It could have been the covenant agreement itself.
 
Michael74 said:
The rabbis went with the delayed bride price, or ketubah, because too many youngsters could not save up the bride price by the normal marriage age. In effect, they allowed the bride price to be paid decades later.
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That makes sense, too. Otherwise older men would be marrying young women in order to still have many children.

On chabad they were saying that the rabbis added the other stipulation of matching the whole of his first price with what she brought in order to deter a husband from divorcing her.
That made me think about the scripture,
Mal_2:14 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.
Mal_2:15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

Isa_54:6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
 
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