Browns backers

[Dave...]

Great start 8-)

The "D" probably isn't as good as they appeared, but at the same time, the offence scrored twenty points against one of, if not the best "D" in the league. I have hopes that our "D" is going to get better, and as you said, they will be exposed a bit when we go against a better offence. Growing pains. At least we are good enough to win now.

I liked the rotating of "D" linemen, too. Didn't see a lot of C Brown. I thought that the line played better after Warren got hurt.

How did you like that 4-4-3 defence? Great scheme. I would expect the rest of the league to copy that until B. Ravens prove they can beat it.

I'm estatic that A. Henry has improved his tackling from years past. His game is solid now. Mccutchen had another solid outing.

Linebackers were great.

Special teams were great. Bodden and Dee Brown had great games. I expected the punting game to suffer, but they played great.

Coaching was very good. They were trying to go deep on offence, but the Ravens simply wouldn't give us the time for the routes to develope in the first half. I liked the fact that they didn't push things at the end of the first half with about a minute to go. The Ravens thrive on those situations. Any other team, though, I'd say go for it.

Offence was struggling in the first half, but in a close game we didn't want to give up any easy poins from turnovers. I wasn't too happy with Greens running in the first half, but he improved as the game went on. I noticed a lot of cut backs and holes that were missed by him. I want Suggs back too.

Garcia was everything that we needed him to be, most importantly a leader. The guy is solid. I personally think that the play that Morgan broke free down feild because the safety and corner cheeted in was do to the threat of Garcia's running ability, a weapon that has to be taken into consideration by any defense. A real QB makes a difference.

The wide outs played a solid game. Too bad Davis couldn't keep his feet on that deep pass. Garcia should have had two TDs throwing.

Winslow was solid. The numbers were not great, but he did open things up for us. That one pass he dropped could have been 7, straight down the sidelines. All thing considered, he's worth every penny.

The funniest thing of all though, was Bob Garcia, Jeff's dad. I guess Jeffs parent are big tailgaiters too. Some of the interviews Jeffs dad gave were gut busters. I heard he was signing autographs "Jeff Garcia's Dad". If you get a chance to hear the clips of him, do it.

Over all I was happy with the outcome of the game and there was much to be happy about.

D Sanders looked old, didn't he?

 

[Scott]

My grades:

O-Line: B
Looked shaky early, but the second half were able to give Garcia time.

QB: A+
The difference maker. No fumbles... no picks. Stayed calm found the open guy. Got the ball in the endzone on the run instead of settling for a field goal. That is Garcia style football. I also recall a first down run where he went head first to get it. Its nice not having a statue behind center. If he stays healthy, my expectations may go up for this team.

RB: B
Green looked like he wanted to be somewhere else in the first half, JJ had a good effort. When the passing game started to kick in Green was able to make a few good runs. Hopefully Suggs is ready by the Dallas game.

WR: A-
Andre Davis was gone if he didn't trip on that one play. Q.... wow, he caught the ball. Wideouts played well against a solid defense.

TE: A+
The other reason why the passing game started to work. Ray Lewis needed help bringing him down. Kept his temper in check. Great job getting after the punter. Hope he gets his first TD pass next week.

D-Line: A+
Jamel who?? Awesome pressure. Stayed in their lanes and let the ballcarrier come to them. Kenard Lang was the playmaker.

LB: A
All the LB's played solid. They struggled a little covering Todd Heap but atleast they contained him to minimal damage.

CB: B-
Did what they had to do. Vinny will air it out next week so they will be tested. Lets hope Anthony Henry repeats his rookie year as far as picks go.


Safeties: A-
Loved that extra pop they put on Jamel Lewis to put him down.

Special Teams: A+
Won the field position battle in the first half. Frost continues to impress me as well as the punt coverage team.... especially Leigh Bodden and Chaun Thompson. Winlsow Jr. was getting excellent pressure on the punter. Northcutt was efficient returning making the right decisions (waiving people away & calling fair catches).

Coaching: A
The D came with a great gameplan. The pressure on Boller and shutting down of Jamel was key. Playcalling on offense was good (especially in the second half).


It was a great win. I was getting tired of hearing Ray Lewis, Deion Sanders, Sean Salsbury and Randy Cross run their mouths.

Its something to build on. Hopefully it continues next week in Big D.

 

[ThinkerMan]

Great Recaps Job and DKc....I agree with about all you said!

Dallas and Wash are going to be two good tests. I was a bit nervous about our schedule but now I feel they are the perfect opponents for us.

If the offense can do something against their solid defense s(well, maybe not Dallas after yesterday), that will go a long way.

Similarly, the D won't be going up against a power threat like Lewis. Defending Portis is a whole different plan...it will be good to see how they handle it.

Since Griffith just learned how to tackle, hopefully his short-term memory won't go once he sees Portis....I see a lot of 7-12 runs from him

 

[Dave...]

Dallas has a decent offensive line, they will be much tougher than the wounded Ravens line. Their defensive backfield is suspect.

I think with Vinnie, you have to get into his face. If we give him time he can pick us apart. Pressure is key.

Our offense should be better this week.

Dallas is a wounded animal right now, they are a dangerous team to be playing now. But i'd rather be playing them this week than playing Baltimore

I'm looking for our running game to break out this week.

This should be a tough game. If the Browns can pull this one out, I would be impressed.

 

[Scott]

Dallas is a wounded animal right now, they are a dangerous team to be playing now. But i'd rather be playing them this week than playing Baltimore

They don't want to be 0-2 and we want to build off the big win. They want to get back to the running game and I'm not sure we can stack the line for Julius Jones (if he plays) because Vinny will air it out and hurt us with their deep WR corp. One thing to keep in mind though, this is a big game for Dave Campo. Its his first time back in Big D since being fired so he had this date circled for a while and hopefully our D will execute his plan with an exclamation point.

I would rather be playing the Cowboys too. It was great to win a home game last week but I still feel more comfortable watching them on the road. As we all know, the road has been home for the past few years. Maybe its gonna be different with Jeff Garcia.

As always, playing tough D and not turning the ball over will win games. Vinny doesn't turn the ball over much so we can't either.

Suggs was cleared to practice so I hope he'll be ready to go. He runs with purpose every time and we'll need it down there in that hostile environment. Take the crowd out early and let Garcia go to work.

Hopefully hurricane Ivan doesn't decide to head that way.

 

[Dave...]

Vinny will air it out and hurt us with their deep WR corp

Vinnie seems to have found his nitch. One thing I would do with Vinnie is force him to throw it inside, over the middle. A healthy pass rush would be nice too.

Parcells has never really impressed me very much. I think he road the coat tail of Belicheck. He's a overrated disciplinarian, as far as i'm concerned. I'll bet you're right about Campo, I never thought of that.

Garcia should know Dallas very well. I'm sure has kept some mental notes from last year.

Is Dallas playing on that new style turf now?

ESPN reported that the Browns were being cautious with Suggs because of a condition that Suggs apparently has with his back. Browns report that the reports about Suggs are false and that he has no condition and the Browns verified this just after they drafted him, that his back is fine and draft reports were inaccurate.

I seen that Carolina used that same 4-4 defense on monday night. Maybe it is more common than I realised.

I guess Q Morgan was so wide open in the Ravens game because Garcia was pump faking and getting the safety and DBs to bite on the short routes. It's still nice to have a running QB who has to be respected as a runner.

Browns offense kicks into high gear this week. Garcia for 290 yards and two TDs. Green and Suggs combine for 180 yards rushing. The Defense silences critics once again as the Browns top Dallas 34 to 17 in a game that was not even as close as the score may indicate.

 

[Scott]

I not so much bummed about losing a game that had its opportunities to win but I'm bummed about losing Winslow for however long it turns out to be. I'm disappointed that there wasn't an effort to get him the ball more. He showed just how valuable he is by the one catch he made (pretty spectacular I might add). Instead there was a concentrated effort to get the ball to the WR's. Well, I admit they were open (wide open) at times but we all know the deep ball isn't Garcia's specialty. So my question is why was there no effort to get KW more involved. I never said it but I had a bad feeling about all the buzz about him on special teams. I had a feeling he might end up getting hurt. I think this offense will struggle even more in the following month(s) without him.

I was impressed with Willie Green this week. He ran hard for the most part and JJ is still trying to make the most of his opportunities (great 38 yard run). I'm still hoping for Suggs to get back though. He may be the one who has to pick up the slack (in the dimension similar to what Priest does for KC). Lee is the one who can do it all well.

I think Courtney Brown and Gerard Warren need to go. Enough is enough. Word around the campfire is that Mark Word and Chad Mustard will be resigned to fill the void at DE/DT and TE (respectively).

 

[Dave...]

I agree about Courtney Brown and Gerard Warren, and would a quincy Morgan to that list.

The blocking was pathetic. Simple blitz packages seem to confuse our line to no end. Our running backs were also having a hard time recognizing the blitz. Many times I watched Green run right past an on coming rusher, almost brushing shoulders, without so much as a chip block.

Green showed promise with hi running, but I think he left a lot of yards on the field. Because of the inability of our healthy backs to block in the backfield, we were reduced to simple drop back passes, when we should have been running play action. This allowed Dallas' linebackers to sit on the wide receiver short routes and just waite for the ball. Two thumbs up for Garcia for not pointing his finger, which he could have done, at....well, take your pick.

Garcia is taking way too much heat for this game, I don't think he's the problem, though he did have a bad game. People seem to take great delight in trying to justify Couch because of this game. They can try, but it doesn't work.

Coaching was pathetic too. Forth and inches for dallas, they line up for a punt, and the Browns stack the right side of the line for the block. An invitation on a silver platter for a first down. Obviously, when the Cowboys saw this, went back to their huddle (at least half way), the Browns should have known something was coming. One of the many coaching blunders. Add to that, third and five at the goal line, and lining up without anyone in the backfield? And, of course, the many third and longs where we ran draws, after throwing deep on first and second down.

I have my doubts about Butch, and I try to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he continues to prove he is not an NFL caliber coach.

Griffen was toast on the flee flicker, but he balanced it out with a pick. We would have had about four more picks if our DBs would turn to the ball and just look. Many times we had the coverage, very good coverage, but it was rendered useless because they just let the pass drop right in the receivers hands.

A very frustrating game. Offence has no chemistry, as Garcia pointed out in the pre season. Butch said "no problem.

I understand the long ball to stretch the defense. Take your shots and keep the defense honest. We played right into the hands of Dallas.

A running, ball control team that threw deep all day, with no offensive line, no play action, and a QB who was running for his life.

This is what I would do. By cutting Warren and Brown, that will free up some money to get a right tackle in the off season. Given the fact that we will not win another game this years if our offense continues to play the way it did in Dallas, we will have a number one, or a number two pick. Take the best left tackle in the draft.

Being a Browns fan isn't easy. :

 

[ThinkerMan]

Being a Browns fan isn't easy.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

The two truly encouraging things I took from this game are these.

1. Aggresive defense, similar to when we lead the league in takeaways a few years ago. Already 7 forced turnovers this season. It does create problems (like the flea flicker), but will give our offense at least the CHANCE to score.

2. Staying in the game. While we played horribly, we were in the game. Last year that would have been a blowout. Winning teams find a way to stay in the game and have a chance at the end. With no passing game, we were still in it at the end.

Overall, we got to find Garcia some more time and he needs to look off safeties a bit better. Winslow was wide open, as were the receivers a few time.

And catch the friggin' ball! Quincy dropped one in the end-zone (there was holding, but who cares). JJ dropped that one for an interception. There were others as well.

It's tough to get in a passing groove when you drop passes like we do.

Well, the Giants are on the way. I think our defense will continue to improve. I see no lack of production from our line with Warren and Brown out (maybe Warren against the run). We are deep and the "back-ups" have played very well.

Like last year, the O has to get something going. Suggs coming back will be huge, and hopefully the play action and screen threat from him will buy Garcia more time to find the WRs.

This O is still a few weeks away from being really comfortable, but I think they will be there.

 

[Scott]

This O is still a few weeks away from being really comfortable, but I think they will be there.

Its not looking good with Tucker out, and Gonzalez playing in that RT spot.

They did resign Chad Mustard (really our only option now that Darnell Sanders is now a Falcon).

Tyrone Rogers was signed to add depth with Courtney lost again for the year. I'm not sure if they are still going to get Word back now that they know Warren will be back in a few weeks.

 

[Dave...]

McCutchen and Anthony Henry may both be out for the Giants game.

I'm not one to believe in curses, but.....LOL Come on!

We didn't build a golden calf on the fifty yard line at one point in time, did we?

 

[Scott]

Ahhh.... my 'Canes play tonight and should walk all over Houston. Maybe it will help ease my NFL Week 2 depression. Two words.... Antrel Rolle!!!

 

[Dave...]

I heard reports today that the Pittsburg-Miami Game will most likeley be played on monday or tuesday.

Alright, our second stringers on both the offensive and defensive lines play better than the starters did.

Browns establish their running game with a vengence.

Browns 24

Giants 21

:-D :-D :roll:

 

[Scott]

I hope Lee Suggs comes back with a vengeance!!!

 

[Scott]

I thought for a while I was watching a game from 2003. Now we've seen the good, bad and the ugly.

 

[Dave...]

Until Butch is gone, it's going to be the same thing every year. Unfortunately, the few good players we have will be counting the days for their contracts to be up so they can get out of here.

Butch's game plan??? Have Shea block Strahan?

I think Robeski dropped half the play book because we couldn't block, not because of Winslow being out. He said earlier in the year that if Winslow got three to four passes a game he would be happy. Doesn't sound like half the play book to me.

I demote the Browns to radio time on Sunday. No more waisting perfect fall days at home just to get frustrated.

We are about five years away, that's if everything falls together perfectly.

 

[Scott]

I think the D line should get overhauled this offseason with the release of both Warren and Brown. Most importantly though, with the exception of Faine... our whole offensive line should be retooled. At least one player a year depending on whats available in free agency till its completely overhauled. Now is the time so we can have a good line in place for Luke if he ends up being the guy in a couple years or so.

We sooo needed Winslow on Sunday. Not only does he block better than he gets credit for, all those short passes to Northcutt would have been broken tackles for him. I agree, anyone who thinks putting Shea on Strahan alone needs their head examined. Most of our starting lineman would have trouble with him by themselves anyway. I realize the whole gameplan for both sides of the ball was a bandaid, but I thought it was a poor excuse for a bandaid. I'm not sure if we'll even make it to my preseason prediction of 7-9 or 8-8.

 

[Dave...]

We could rebuild our offensive line in one year. Man, i'll tell ya, watching Robert Gallery in the Raiders game just man handle his man all game long was saddening. I know the Browns tried to trade up for him, to bad they couldn't get it done. That Guy is massive and knows how to play the position.

Anyways, if we cut C. Brown we will have about 7-8 mill. free there. Add the 3 mill from Couch's 7.5 to Garcia's 4.5 and that's another three. I'm on the bubble with Warren because before they stopped double teaming Brown and started double teaming Warren instead, Warren was having some good success. If we cut him, we will have another 5-6 mill. Assuming we won't, we still have over 10 mill. from the two contracts above. Add to that Tuckers pay if we cut him, I think he's making about 4 mill. I could be wrong on that. That's up to 15 mill that is free for next year. If we lose out, we could get a top pick left tackle in the draft. I've been trying to find a free agent listing for next year, to see who is available on the offensive lines.

I think Faine at center, even though he is having growing pains, is still solid and the rest of the line is making him look worse than he is. I'd move Verba back to left Gaurd and we should be able to get a few more years at least out of him. That leaves three positions to fill.

I don't know if there are any great left tackle coming out in the draft, but whatever the draft is strong in, left or right tackles, we can compensate in free agency. they are not ranked or anything, but here are some tackles coming out in the draft next year.

This is from Bernies insider.

Jon Scott, T, Texas

Scott is a 6-7, 305-pound left tackle who has outstanding feet. He started all 13 games at left tackle last year for the Longhorns as a sophomore after starting six as a redshirt freshman the year before.

Jamal Brown, T, Oklahoma

A powerful 6-6, 320-pound left tackle who has outstanding feet for a man his size. His play last year was a big reason the Sooners offensive line showed big improvement from the year before.

(This sounds like our man for right tackle. This is the only place I seen him listed as a left tackle, i'll assume this is wrong.)

Winston Justice, T, USC

He has some off-field trouble with the law pending, but if that is resolved and he is back on the USC team, he has first-round talent. Justice has been starting since his freshman season, which is big-time ability in the Pac-10.

(Butch always did like the troubled kids)

Mike Munoz, T, Tennessee

The son of Hall of Fame tackle Anthony Munoz, Mike Munoz is a powerful left tackle who has battled some injuries in his career. When healthy, he's certainly a top 20 pick.

Eric Winston, T, Miami

Winston is the reason the Hurricanes moved Vernon Carey from tackle to guard. A former tight end, he has the athleticism teams love. Get ready for another Miami first-round pick.

Here is an interesting link. http://www.nfl.com/draft/analysis/expert/brandt/ol

The defense will have to waite, besides they aren't great, but they are getting the job done.

I just noticed that Verbas contract is up after this year. Tuckers next year.

 

[Dave...]

Lets see how we stack up.

65 Kirk Chambers OT 6-7 315 3/19/1979 R Stanford CLE
70 Enoch DeMar OT 6-4 330 9/7/1980 2 Indiana CLE
73 Joaquin Gonzalez OT 6-3 308 9/7/1979 3 Miami (Fl) CLE
72 Ryan Tucker OT 6-5 305 6/12/1975 8 TCU CLE
77 Ross Verba OT 6-4 308 10/31/1973 8 Iowa CLE

50 Jeff Faine C 6-3 298 4/6/1981 2 Notre Dame CLE
67 Melvin Fowler C 6-3 300 3/31/1979 3 Maryland CLE
63 Kelvin Garmon OG 6-2 350 10/26/1976 5 Baylor CLE
66 Paul Zukauskas OG 6-5 310 7/12/1979 4 Boston College CLE

NFL Tackles

Shortest Median Tallest
6-1½ .....6-4 5/8... 6-8
Lightest Median Heaviest
293 ..........311..... 375
Slowest Median Fastest
5.58 ........5.21.... 4.93

The following is a list of my top 12 offensive linemen followed by the best of the rest at guard, center and tackle.


Size and speed

Averages of offensive linemen at this year's combine
....................Tackles....... Guards .............Centers
Height ..............6-6 ............6-4½ ..............6-3 1/8
Weight ............318 ............316 .................302
Strength lifts .....26 ..............25 ...................26
40-yard time ...5.23 ............5.42 ................5.26
10-yard time ...1.81 ............1.86 ................1.81
Vertical jump 29½ inches .27½ inches .....26½ inches


It looks like we are average at best, or undersize. If Chambers can bulk up on wieght, he would fit the profile, but there is a reason he was drafted low. We need help, it's no wonder we are getting pushed around on the line.

Faine fits the correct size and wieght for a center as does Fowler. Zukauskas looks to be on target , on paper anyways.
Verba is perfect size for a guard, but way undersize for a left tackle.
Tucker is on the small side too.

If we get two top notch tackles we should be good.

 

[Dave...]

Mel Kiper's list has bpth tackles moving up in the draft. None of his players are on the list above. Maybe that list is an old one.

1. Mike Williams Jr. WR USC
Terrific combo of size and strength.

2. Derrick Johnson Sr. LB Texas
Strength, speed and 125 tackles last year.

3. Mark Clayton Sr. WR Oklahoma
Had 86 receptions in '03, 15 for TDs.

4. Ronnie Brown Sr. RB Auburn
Good combo of size, speed, power, instincts.

5. Antrel Rolle Sr. CB Miami
The next very fast, very athletic Hurricane DB.

6. Cedric Benson Sr. RB Texas
45 rushing TDs over the last three seasons.

7. Carnell Williams Sr. RB Auburn
1,307 yards and 17 TDs last season.

8. David Pollack Sr. DE Georgia
Incredible intensity and passion.

9. Alex Barron Sr. OT Fla. St.
6-6, 320 and an excellent pass blocker.

10. Elton Brown Sr. OG Virginia
Great athleticism for someone his size (6-5, 335).

11. Chris Canty Sr. DE Virginia
Quick and explosive with a wide wingspan.

12. Lance Mitchell Sr. LB Oklahoma
Led OU with 124 stops in '02, injured in '03.

13. Corey Webster Sr. DB LSU
Seven INTs and 46 tackles last season.

14. Anttaj Hawthorne Sr. DT Wisconsin
20 tackles for loss last year but still underrated.

15. Barrett Ruud Sr. LB Nebraska
Excellent sideline-to-sideline speed, productivity.

16. Charlie Frye Sr. QB Akron
29 total TDs, over 4,000 total yards in '03.

17. Kyle Orton Sr. QB Purdue
Good size at 6-3½ and 219 pounds.

18. Charles Frederick Sr. WR Washington
Double threat as a punt returner.

19. Braylon Edwards Sr. WR Michigan
85 receptions, 1,138 yds, 14 TD in '03.

20. Logan Mankins Sr. OT Fresno St.
A destroyer with a mean streak.

21. Kevin Burnett Sr. LB Tennessee
UT's leading tackler this season.

22. Marlin Jackson Sr. CB Michigan
Top-notch athletic and coverage skills.

23. Alex Smith Sr. TE Stanford
Athletically gifted with great body control.

24. Erasmus James Sr. TE Wisconsin
Outstanding pass rusher who can play the run.

25. Dan Orlovsky Sr. QB Connecticut
Ideal size (6-4½, 230) and a strong arm.