By His Stripes we are Healed !

[toddm]

Praise God, we are saved from the curse ! All sickness is part of the curse and Jesus took that curse upon Himself for the believer.

Those of you who push this bogus nonsense that physical healing must exist if there is faith MUST EXPLAIN WHY Pauls thorn in the flesh was NOT removed by Christ.

Are you accusing PAUL of not having faith ?

And IF you say it wasnt removed "because" of any particular reason then you PROVE that it is GODS WILL that decides WHO is healed and who isnt ! ;)


And then Timothy whom Paul told to drink a little wine for his stomach issues.
WHY did Paul NOT tell Timothy to have faith because he was 'healed' at the cross ?
WHY did Paul turn to natural remedies rather than miraculous healing when instructing Timothy ?

Its been ignored long enough. Ill ask until we get a CLEAR response that makes SENSE

I have posed these EXACT same questions and passages before for the "physical healing in the cross" nonsense...almost the exact wording too..kinda scary, FOC..it's like we share a brain. haha! Any way, I have never heard anyone that buys into the physical healing at the cross bit ever give an answer to these passages...it's the same 'ol beating around the bush every single time. They ignore the fact that physical healings happened BEFORE the cross...by Jesus and His disciples. How could this be if the curse of sickness wasn't lifted until AFTER the cross??

C'mon people! Let's love God with all our MINDS.

(wait for it....someone is going to come on say "how come you guys don't believe that God still heals?" :mad )

 

[follower of Christ]

They ignore the fact that physical healings happened BEFORE the cross...by Jesus and His disciples. How could this be if the curse of sickness wasn't lifted until AFTER the cross??

Very good point.

 

[Aaron the Tall]

How come you guys don't believe that God still heals?

Just kidding.

I totally understand both of your points. It just seems a bit strong to call "physical healing at the cross" "nonsense." I understand you are offended by those who claim nobody can get sick in Jesus. We do, after all, live in a fallen world with decaying bodies that won't be completely redeemed til Jesus returns.

People were healed before the cross, just as people were justified before the cross. However, I would expect that after the cross, healing would be in greater measure, just as justification is in greater measure. You may not be able to point to a "cross" scripture that justifies healing, but you can point to the whole concept of the Kingdom of God - a reality we were brought into and a King who lives inside us. With this indwelling King, we should ask and expect that God's will be done on earth just as it is in heaven. The King heals - plain and simple.

It is true that not everyone is healed. God is not our puppet. He is sovereign. I'll just go out on a limb though and say that I believe God would like to heal more people than are currently being healed. However, like it is with all God's plans, they must be put into practice by obedient faithful followers.

 

[follower of Christ]

The King heals - plain and simple.

I dont thank ANY of us have a single problem with that statement

Here are 2 statements that I DO have a problem with and are not scriptural in the least;
1. The King heals everyone without exception
2. If a believer isnt healed then its because they lack faith.

However, like it is with all God's plans, they must be put into practice by obedient faithful followers.

So are we saying that Paul and Timothy WERENT obedient followers since Pauls thorn wasnt removed and Timothy was given a medicinal remedy rather than a "God heals" line ?
Sorry, Im just not sure what the point is

 

[Aaron the Tall]

Follower,
I agree with your two points. (or don't agree?)

My point was that even though everyone might not be healed by "tapping into" the cross - I believe more people would be healed if they believed it. And I'm not saying that from pride or anything. I have a young son who was born with a physical deformity. We have prayed for his healing. I sometimes question if I really have the faith to believe for it - but I have come to understand that God is in control, and that my son's healing will come in His time - be it in this life or the next.

 

[follower of Christ]

Follower,
I agree with your two points. (or don't agree?)

My point was that even though everyone might not be healed by "tapping into" the cross - I believe more people would be healed if they believed it. And I'm not saying that from pride or anything. I have a young son who was born with a physical deformity. We have prayed for his healing. I sometimes question if I really have the faith to believe for it - but I have come to understand that God is in control, and that my son's healing will come in His time - be it in this life or the next.

I'll agree with the possibility of 'more', however I cannot agree that any lack of faith on your part is the sole reason why your son isnt healed.
God is in control...thats the most powerful reassurance a believer ever need know and believe

We'll add your son to our prayer list, Aaron

.

 

[Aaron the Tall]

We'll add your son to our prayer list, Aaron

Much appreciated. As it is, he has another surgery coming up in February.

 

[glorydaz]

I'm not saying God doesn't heal...he does, but I am saying by his stripes we are healed is not speaking of physical healing, but spiritual. We just can't take scripture out of context to support something it doesn't.

21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

 

[savedbygrace57]

That's right. God healed him. because we were healed by His stripes. Amen.

How did He get sick in the First Place ? Do you believe you can get sick ?

 

[Cornelius]

That's right. God healed him. because we were healed by His stripes. Amen.

How did He get sick in the First Place ? Do you believe you can get sick ?

Of course we can get sick. The Bible says that we do. But God heals us too. He is the Healer.

 

[Cornelius]

Those of you who push this bogus nonsense that physical healing must exist if there is faith MUST EXPLAIN WHY Pauls thorn in the flesh was NOT removed by Christ.

Are you accusing PAUL of not having faith ?

And IF you say it wasnt removed "because" of any particular reason then you PROVE that it is GODS WILL that decides WHO is healed and who isnt ! ;)


And then Timothy whom Paul told to drink a little wine for his stomach issues.
WHY did Paul NOT tell Timothy to have faith because he was 'healed' at the cross ?
WHY did Paul turn to natural remedies rather than miraculous healing when instructing Timothy ?



Its been ignored long enough. Ill ask until we get a CLEAR response that makes SENSE

Paul's thorn was not sickness. The Bible says it was a demon, a "messenger of Satan"

2Cr 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

The reason is also clear: You have to have ............abundance of revelations..........

Here is what the demon did to Paul when he buffeted his flesh:

2Cr 11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty [stripes] save one.


2Cr 11:25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;


2Cr 11:26 [In] journeyings often, [in] perils of waters, [in] perils of robbers, [in] perils by [mine own] countrymen, [in] perils by the heathen, [in] perils in the city, [in] perils in the wilderness, [in] perils in the sea, [in] perils among false brethren;


2Cr 11:27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.


2Cr 11:28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.


2Cr 11:29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?


2Cr 11:30 If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.

OK and we also see that the demon indeed kept Paul humble as we can see from his statement that "if I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.

____________________________________


2)

I have already told you the wine is the blood of Jesus, spoken of by Paul where he tells us that if we do not discern it, we get sick and some die.

1Cr 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh, eateth and drinketh judgment unto himself, if he discern not the body.

1Cr 11:30 For this cause many among you are weak and sickly, and not a few sleep.

 

[savedbygrace57]

That's right. God healed him. because we were healed by His stripes. Amen.

How did He get sick in the First Place ? Do you believe you can get sick ?

Of course we can get sick. The Bible says that we do. But God heals us too. He is the Healer.

So God has healed all our sicknesses, but yet we can get sick ? :verysad

 

[follower of Christ]

Paul's thorn was not sickness. The Bible says it was a demon, a "messenger of Satan"

Is this the best you can come up with C ?
Some biblical scholars believe that this 'thorn' is Pauls eyesight because of his comments about writing with such large letters.
(edited for clarity)

See with what large letters I have written to you with my own hand!
(Galatians 6:11 EMTV)

Id have hoped youd have had something better to offer :gah

2)

I have already told you the wine is the blood of Jesus, spoken of by Paul where he tells us that if we do not discern it, we get sick and some die.

1Cr 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh, eateth and drinketh judgment unto himself, if he discern not the body.

1Cr 11:30 For this cause many among you are weak and sickly, and not a few sleep.

Oh this is pathetic.
So you actually expect us to buy that Paul wasnt speaking about literal wine.


.

 

[follower of Christ]

Of course we can get sick. The Bible says that we do. But God heals us too. He is the Healer.

Huh.
So then your god likes to play a game with you by taunting you with sickness then healing you of it?
Seems to me that if your doctrine were true youd be immune to sickness and amputation....

 

[follower of Christ]

Had to take the wife somewhere. Now lets get back to this error.

Paul's thorn was not sickness. The Bible says it was a demon, a "messenger of Satan"

So lets see.
The immediate claim is that if its from Satan then it cannot be sickness, right ?
Huh. So Satan doesnt deal in sickness or disease, then....is that what youre saying, C ?
If so, we're not buying it.

So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
(Job 2:7 KJV)

2Cr 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

The reason is also clear: You have to have ............abundance of revelations..........

Ahhh...EXACTLY what I had hoped you would bring up.
So you DO believe there are conditions where someone might not be 'healed' then.

Here is what the demon did to Paul when he buffeted his flesh:

No, friend, this is YOUR ideas as to what this 'thorn' is.
Pauls 'thorn' in his flesh hardly sounds like the MANY experiences he had.
Whew...

I have already told you the wine is the blood of Jesus, spoken of by Paul where he tells us that if we do not discern it, we get sick and some die.

Regrettably SAYING something dont make it so ;)

1Cr 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh, eateth and drinketh judgment unto himself, if he discern not the body.
1Cr 11:30 For this cause many among you are weak and sickly, and not a few sleep.

Uh....this is about eating and drinking the Lords supper, gent. It has nothing to do with Timothys stomach issue.
Can we assume you are accusing Timothy of taking the Lords supper in some sinful manner, C ?
Not even a good try, C.

 

[follower of Christ]

.

So God has healed all our sicknesses, but yet we can get sick ? :verysad

Yeah, see apparently the work at the cross can HEAL our bodies, but it is powerless to keep them from getting sick or amputated to begin with


.

 

[follower of Christ]

Keep having trouble with this one...

Cornelius wrote:
Paul's thorn was not sickness. The Bible says it was a demon, a "messenger of Satan"

And so your thoughts are that Jesus will heal us spiritually...heal our bodies, make us well and even grow an amputated leg back for us....but just isnt interested in defending His own children from demons ?

Jesus casts out demons left and right and gives that power to His own disciples, then leaves poor Paul, His chosen apostle to the gentiles, out to hang so that demons can have their way with Paul....?

Eh...not buying it, C..

And isnt it funny how you can make 'wine' allegorical but have to make 'messenger of satan' very literal ;)

 

[Cornelius]

Of course we can get sick. The Bible says that we do. But God heals us too. He is the Healer.

Huh.
So then your god likes to play a game with you by taunting you with sickness then healing you of it?
Seems to me that if your doctrine were true youd be immune to sickness and amputation....

Yep,definitely says that God is the One who puts the diseases upon us.

Exd 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I [am] the LORD that healeth thee.

 

[Cornelius]

Keep having trouble with this one...

And so your thoughts are that Jesus will heal us spiritually...heal our bodies, make us well and even grow an amputated leg back for us....but just isnt interested in defending His own children from demons ?

Jesus casts out demons left and right and gives that power to His own disciples, then leaves poor Paul, His chosen apostle to the gentiles, out to hang so that demons can have their way with Paul....?

Eh...not buying it, C..

And isnt it funny how you can make 'wine' allegorical but have to make 'messenger of satan' very literal ;)

Yep again, it says so right here.

God really sent Paul a demon . You do know what a messenger (angelos /angel ) of Satan is , don't you?

2Cr 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

"messenger" angelos 1) a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God (in this case from Satan )

So there you have it in black and white. A demon, even if you find that hard to believe

 

[Cornelius]

Keep having trouble with this one...

Cornelius wrote:
Paul's thorn was not sickness. The Bible says it was a demon, a "messenger of Satan"

And so your thoughts are that Jesus will heal us spiritually...heal our bodies, make us well and even grow an amputated leg back for us....but just isnt interested in defending His own children from demons ?

Jesus casts out demons left and right and gives that power to His own disciples, then leaves poor Paul, His chosen apostle to the gentiles, out to hang so that demons can have their way with Paul....?

Eh...not buying it, C..

And isnt it funny how you can make 'wine' allegorical but have to make 'messenger of satan' very literal ;)

Yes , even amputated legs. I told you before, that this has already happened. Check out the history of the church in Korea, where God grew back the legs (BOTH) of an amputee. It took time, because pastor Cho did not have faith in the beginning that it would happen, but in the end God did just that ......the legs grew back.