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By Nature Children of Wrath as others !

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It is really a moot point, isn't it?
If a man turns from sin and unto God he will be saved.
If he doesn't, he will be lost.
As the final designation of each man won't be known until the day of judgement, it is superfluous to infer someone will, or won't be saved, in the past. (or from the beginning)
No its not a moot point !
 
It's very relevant to the topic as in who are the children of wrath. Sorry you can not see that. In simple terms the children of wrath are those who are none of Christ own as they reject Him.
I dont think you understand who the children of wrath are according to Eph 2:3, and I have already given my view !
 
You free to disagree all you want,it doesnt change the truth. Only the Elect of God, them Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 are never under Gods wrath while they are ungodly unbelievers.
Your opinion doesn't matter, as I've already proved my point by the scripture. But since you seem to just want to argue about it, I'm out of here.
 
We = Entire Human Race

He is meaning both believers and non-believers.

Absolutely YES!

You know what Children are. No mystery there.

What everyone misses is the 'of' portion. Being a 'Child of' means being born of LITERALLY from that which the phrase is referring to. In this case, being born out of Wrath. Again, it is literal.

Look at the phrase 'Children of' and you will find that it is always literal...

Exodus 1:7
"And the children of Israel were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty; and the land was filled with them."


Research the phrase 'Born of'. You will find that in EVERY case it is referring to a LITERAL event...

John 3:6
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."


Even this is literal...

Acts 13:10
"And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?"


Long story short. Being 'Children of Wrath' means:
  • We were once alive
  • We were Unsaved and found unworthy
  • We died from the Wrath of God (Literally and Physically)
  • God brought us back into this world via new Incarnation
And that my friend is the hard core Truth that most Christians are unable to bear as they have way too much pride to be corrected.

Having said that, you are very close to understanding because you found a missing piece of the puzzle...

Now connect the above verse to the phrase 'Times Past' and you will become forever Enlightened as to what the Church has hidden from the world for thousands of years now.

I will make it plain as can be:

TIMES PAST = PAST LIFE

OK?

And please do not give me this nonsense about how we "only die once". Hebrews 9:27 has been twisted by Pastors to mean something it does not teach. There are plenty of folks in the Bible that died more than one time. Some never died. Some will be Raptured. Etc., etc.

Look brightfame52 . I have no doubt that you will most likely flat out reject what I am showing you here. I will not beat you over the head with my interpretations. I may even be banned for believing the literal interpretation. It happens all the time.

I guarantee you though that if the Holy Ghost is in you, he will lead you to accept that the Unsaved are given another chance as YOU were when you were a Child of Wrath in Times Past.

You were thrown into the Lake of Fire. Now you are here again. God saved you this time. Appreciate what he has done for you and others.

Good luck and God Bless.
The Hebrew term for reincarnation is gilgul meaning cycle or wheel. Souls are seen to cycle through lives or incarnations, being attached to different human bodies.

Not to derail this thread and I will not debate or discuss this, but you are speaking of reincarnation and that is not of God nor His design in creating man and woman. I just want other members to know the facts behind this heresy.

The Greek term hapax legomenon is a transliteration of Greek being said once or something said once that occurs only once within a context either in a written record of an entire language, in the works of an author or in a single text.

These teachings are found in Asian religions like Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism and also in Hasidic Judaism where many Jews even today believe in reincarnation. The Talmud nor the Bible makes any reference to reincarnation, but actually speak against it, Leviticus 20:6; Colossians 2:8. The Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism) teaches a belief in gilgul/hapax legomenon being the transmigration of the souls as the belief is universal in Hasidic Judaism, which regards the Kabbalah as sacred and authoritive. These Jews fell into idolatry worshiping other gods as they did not heed the warning God gave to Solomon found in 1 Kings 9:1-9.

Reincarnation is a philosophical concept of Greek philosophers like Pythagoras, Socrates and Plato and still followed by Hasidic Judaism and the New Age movement that reject the true God of all creation and His Son Christ Jesus. The belief in reincarnation is an ancient phenomenon that is unbiblical and according to scripture is rejected as a false teaching.
 
tdidymis



I definitely disagree with that ! Thats just your opinion as stated and its without biblical support. Those Christ died for, He was Judged for those sins that would otherwise send them to hell !
Who judged Christ for our sins? Where is that found in scripture?

I may be misunderstanding you, but you are making it sound like God already chose/predestined who would be His own before the foundation of the world and He judged Christ for their sin and can not sin.
 
Sinners who Christ died for, His Sheep/Elect, before they believe, God by Christs death for them has been propitiated 1 Jn 2:2
No one can become His sheep/elect before they believe. We are all born with a nature to sin as that is a fact and we have all been found to be unrighteous before being Spiritually reborn again from above and indwelled with this Holy Spirit. It is only those who seek Christ and with their mouth and from their heart confess Him as Lord and Savior.

Mat 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
 
Nope it applies only to elect while they are enemies and unbelievers. Even as unbelievers the Elect are not under Gods wrath as others are.
Enemies are unbelievers who will face the wrath of God in judgement against them. Enmity in vs. 7 means a hostile enemy against God so how on earth can anon-believer be a believer without being Spiritually born again from above.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
 
I dont think you understand who the children of wrath are according to Eph 2:3, and I have already given my view !
I don't think you understand who the children of wrath are. These verses makes it very clear.

Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

I don't think you understand who the children of wrath are This verse makes it very clear.

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
 
No its not a moot point !
If not, what difference does it make?
If we won't know where we stand till the final judgement, what is the use of knowing...or thinking we know, if we are children of wrath or not?

Act like you are a child of God at all times, and it will not matter what you think relative to the OP.
 
fhg

Who judged Christ for our sins?
If we are one of the Elect, God the Father Judged Christ for our sins. Thats what the Cross was all about, Christ was Judged, died for the Sins of His People , God charged Christ with their sins.
 
fhg
Enemies are unbelievers who will face the wrath of God in judgement against them.

Not if Christ has already underwent the Judgment of God for their sins, for that would be double jeopardy and unjust, being punished twice for their sins.
 
If not, what difference does it make?
If we won't know where we stand till the final judgement, what is the use of knowing...or thinking we know, if we are children of wrath or not?

Act like you are a child of God at all times, and it will not matter what you think relative to the OP.
It makes a lot of difference, why do you think Paul was inspired by God to write the epistle ? It may be meaningless to you, you will answer to God for that friend unless He grants you repentance on this matter.
 
It won't make any difference if they die as unbelievers.
They wont die as unbelievers ! But if they did, their unbelief has been paid for. They were reconciled to God as enemies/unbelievers Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 
The Elect aren't under Gods wrath at anytime, not even while they are by nature children of wrath like others Eph 2:3 ! The reason being is because all what they are by nature as ungodly rebels and sinners, has already been laid upon Christ, and He has provided satisfaction to Gods Justice for what they are by nature. God needs no more satisfaction against their sins, He's appeased on their behalf.16
 
fhg


If we are one of the Elect, God the Father Judged Christ for our sins. Thats what the Cross was all about, Christ was Judged, died for the Sins of His People , God charged Christ with their sins.
Why would Christ be judged for our sin when He was sinless, but sacrificed His own life that by the grace of God through faith we who are the whosoever's in John 3:16 that believe in Him will have eternal life with Him.

You can not be a sheep before you believe and have faith. That would be like being a doctor practicing medicine before going to college to become one. Anyone who is not Spiritually born again are the enemies of God and will face His wrath in judgement.


God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.​
 
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