Call No Man Father

[Rodger]

The apostolic council exercising the authority of Christ says mother of God and Theotokos
God bearer

If anyone does not confess that Emmanuel is God in truth, and therefore that the holy virgin is the mother of God (for she bore in a fleshly way the Word of God become flesh) let him be anathema.

Again..........that is Catholic dogma and only applies to YOU.

It is not Biblical and has no authority over the Christian believers.

 

[Rodger]

We have no intention of making Mary or anyone else “divine”
Only God is divine eternal and uncreated

Only one savior one salvation

Please don’t make assumptions ask questions instead

No Mary was sinless but Jesus is still her savior how, she was preserved from sin and created by God without sin in virtue of the merits of Christ so both are true
But she is not savior or mediator only Christ is

Thks

I never make assumtions.....only "Observations"!

There are four Marian dogmas:
Mary’s Divine Motherhood,
Immaculate Conception,
Perpetual Virginity, and
Bodily Assumption.

Source: https://www.dioceseoftyler.org/2022/07/01/what-catholics-must-believe-about-the-blessed-virgin-mary/

Holy Mother Church says that these are divinely revealed truths to which the faithful must adhere.

Now the interesting thing about those commands from the RCC is that none of them are found in the Bible.

It is that fact that I can say with clarity that the Catholic church is NOT Biblical Christianity!

 

[Rodger]

Yes both water and the spirit not spirit only

Baptismal regeneration

*Notice it says you cannot enter the kingdom

We cannot enter on our own by faith alone it must administered to us by a minister who is in the kingdom!

2 pet 1:11
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Apostles / priests

Are the authorized ministers

2 Corinthians 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

Thks

Again, you are incorrect. Catholic, but not Bible Christianity.

The water in John 3 does not say "BAPTISM". I literally says "WATER".

Most every Bible scholar says that relates to the am -biotic fluid of Physical birth as I have already detailed for you but it seems you choose to ignore it.

 

[Rodger]

It’s all good
Coming from different points of view I get it
But it’s the only way get to a biblical understanding

Presbyter is priest!

"Presbyter" = in the Bible it is translated "the assembly of the elders," and in the New Test. all believers are priests.

 

[Rodger]

Penance:
Prayer, fasting, alms, self-denial sacrifice & suffering, sacraments, etc.

my grace is sufficient: 2 cor 12:9
Seek the kingdom: Matt 6:33
Abide in Christ / bear fruit Jn 15:4
Perpetual state of faith: Jn 3:16
Watch & Pray: Matt 26:41
Ask and receive: 7:8
Pray: Matt 6:6
Fasting: Matt 6:17
Alms: Matt 6:3
Practice of the virtues of Jesus
Christ: Matt 11:29
Narrow gate road lead to life Matt 7:14
Beatitudes: Matt 5:3-16
Christian suffering / Deny thyself, take up Thy cross: Matt 10:38 & 16:24 rom 8:18 2 thes 1:5
2 Tim 2:12 Phil 1:29
Frequenting the sacraments (promises) of grace: Heb 8:8
2 Timothy 1:1
Endure to the end: Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

All united in Christ and Soaked in His blood, grace, the merits Christ won for us by His life, death, and resurrection!

Not quite.........
"Penance" in Catholic theology is a teaching of the RCC in which forgiveness of sins committed after baptism is granted through the priest’s absolution.

Again.......That is not Biblical and is not basic Christianity! It is solely Catholic false teaching.

 

[Rodger]

Incorruptible seed is the grace we receive in baptism and it can be lost by sin

I would have loved to have been able to teach you the Bible.

Again you are very Catholic but very incorrect.

God's "Word," in 1Peter 1:23 passage, is called "incorruptible 'seed"– this is a eternal Seed that cannot decay and die. Scripture clearly declares that Jesus Christ is "the Word of God."

 

[Rodger]

Explaining why eph 2:8 says “NOT IF YOURSELVES”?

And he brought us to life eph 2:1 and 2:5

Do you really believe “faith alone”?

Thks

You said.........
"Explaining why eph 2:8 says “NOT IF YOURSELVES”?"

The Bible does not say, "Not if yourselves".....It read "Not OF YOURSELVES".

That literally means that there is nothing you can do in addition to what Jesus did. It means that WORKS play no part in salvation.

You asked me..........
"Do you really believe “faith alone”?

YES! According to the direction of God, "We are saved by grace and not anything we can do lest we boast>!
We are "Justified" - declared not guility by faith in Jesus as the Christ....PEROID.

But........So faith alone doesn’t mean the same thing when applied to justification, sanctification, and final salvation. You can see what extraordinary care and precision is called for in order to be faithful to the Scripture when using the five solas. And since “Scripture alone” is our final and decisive authority, being faithful to Scripture is the goal. I aim to be biblical first — and Christian then only if it follows from Scripture.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Incorruptible seed is the grace we receive in baptism and it can be lost by sin

Incorruptible seed is the means of our regeneration to being new creatures.
More sins illustrates the lack of incorruptible be seed.
"Incorruptible" !

 

[Hopeful 2]

Prayer is part of penance
Love implies suffering
If you love me keep my commandments

Penance for what ?

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

Amen.
Why would one who has ceased form sin need to do penance ?

 

[donadams]

"Grevious" sin.

No my friend..........ALL and any sin.

All can be forgiven except one......The refusual of Jesus as the Crist and ones Saviour.

I though we were seeking biblical understanding?


1 John 5:17
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.

Galatians 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Rodger]

I though we were seeking biblical understanding?


1 John 5:17
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.

Galatians 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

We are. That is all I deal with my friend.....Bible truth! Not denominations and not religions...BIBLE TRUTH!

What is the purpose of the Scriptures you posted?

Every single one of them support what I have posted.

Thank you for asking and I am blessed to explain those Scriptures for your better understanding.

That being said, lets consider 1 John 5:17 .......
In his final comments on sin leading to death, John clarifies that all disobedience is sin. Though sin is the ultimate cause of all death as Paul stated in Romans 5:12, not every act of disobedience results in immediate demise. Then again, some sins a person commits with their body or spirit can be fatal: a "sin that leads to death." However, John is also clear that all sin is wrong. His intent here is to make a distinction regarding how a believer should pray for other people, not about whether something is considered sinful or not.

Galatians 5:4...........
Some might be tempted to think they could do both: "Who knows if faith alone, or faith-plus works is right? Do I trust Paul, or the Judaizers? I'll just do it all to make sure I'm covered. I don't want to risk not being accepted by God, after all."

However, Paul is showing his readers that acceptance by God is exactly what they risk by trying to do both. Someone, such as Catholic believers who want to add works to faith in Christ "just in case" is not truly trusting in Christ, at all. Now Paul puts it in even harsher terms: That person is "severed" or alienated from Christ. Someone who is trying to be justified—"made right with God"—by following the law has missed out on the grace of God.

1 Corth. 6:9.............
Here Paul makes a reference to sexual sins which modern interpreters sometimes attempt to ignore. You see my dear friend, the inheritance of a kingdom is not earned; it is passed on to the children of the king. Those who inherit God's kingdom are also receiving eternal life with Him in His glory forever.

Paul asks another "do you not know" question to remind the Corinthian Christians. This one reminds them of one group who will not inherit God's kingdom: the unrighteous—or the wicked, the wrongdoers. In Romans, Paul's clear teaching of the gospel is this: Only those who come to God through faith in Jesus are declared by God to be righteous (Romans 3:21–26). Only they will inherit God's kingdom.

Paul provides examples of those who are unrighteous, identifying them by the sins they embrace. Most of these practices would have been common in the Greek and Roman culture of the day. They include sexual immorality, meaning every kind of sex outside of heterosexual marriage, idol worship, adultery, meaning sex with another's spouse, and homosexual acts.

The words translated as "practice homosexuality" in the ESV include two Greek words: malakoi and arsenokoitai. Respectively, these indicate the passive and active participants in same-sex sexual behaviors.

Galatians 5:21.......
Now, Paul mentions envy. Envy is sometimes described as wanting what someone else has. It can also include resenting people who have the things we want. For Christians in particular, envy implies that we're discontent with what God has given to us.

Paul then concludes his list with two sins of excess. "Drunkenness" is from the Greek term methai, which specifically means the effect of consuming too much alcohol, and by extension, any other mind-altering substance. This is consistent with the approach to alcohol taken by Scripture, which never forbids consumption, but always condemns drunkenness (Ephesians 5:18).

It's important to understand that Paul's list here is not meant to be exhaustive. It does not include every sin that human beings might do. Paul was not creating a simplified version of the law for Christians to live by. Instead, Paul is demonstrating what a life spent serving ourselves looks like. Those who are in Christ must not squander their freedom in living in that way.

Paul is not saying here that anyone who commits any of these sins at any time is not in Christ. Christians still sin. We don't always win the battle with ourselves to let the Holy Spirit lead in our decisions.

That, of course, is part of Paul's point—these are sins Christians need to purposefully avoid, and not fall back into by ignoring the power of the Holy Spirit.

Again....since I have retired I have not had the opportunity to teach the Word of God, so I want to thank you for asking questions for discussion!

 

[donadams]

No sir you are again incorrect.

Every doctrine and teaching in the Bible is God ordained and comes from God not a man.

Only the Catholic church attemps to do what you suggest.

The truth comes only from Christ not the men but it is communicated by men

 

[donadams]

YES!

You ask............
Does include Jesus?...........That is not worth of an answer with all due repects.
Infants?....................................They are under the grace and blood of Christ and have no accountability.
The mentally I’ll or anyone not exercising free will?.........Same as above.

Please no not waste your time posting what any Pope has said. They mean nothing to me.

You posted.............
Gen 3:15
Lk 1:28
Lk 1:35
Lk 1:47
Lk 1:49
Song of Solomon 4:1

There is NOT ONE single suggesion or thought in those Scriptures that validate the Immaculate conception of Mary. I say again to you..........There is not a single Bible Scripture to support such a false teaching.

Rev 12:1 a woman clothed with the sun has nothing whatsoever to do with Mary. The woman in that Scripture is ISRAEL.

Rev 12:1 if the child is Jesus Christ then the woman MUST be Mary!

Gen 3:15 it is not possible to be at enmity total war with satan and be affected by his works (sin)

Lk 1:28 full of grace is immaculate holiness

Lk 1:28 who is with Mary? The Lord!
Anything connected with God MUST be holy, and consecrated to God’s service alone!

The Holy Spirit could only overshadow an immaculate pure Mary never a sinner!

What are the things mentioned in Lk 1:49 things plural
What are the possibilities?

Thanks

I know it’s a whole other subject but why does a truth or doctrine need to be in scripture to be true?

Where does scripture say scripture alone, actually there are multiple verses that imply truth other than in scripture, and most of what is in scripture was originally taught in person then written at a much latter date.

Thanks

 

[donadams]

Again..........that is Catholic dogma and only applies to YOU.

It is not Biblical and has no authority over the Christian believers.

Of course its authority biblical
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

And Lk 1:43
Thks

 

[donadams]

I never make assumtions.....only "Observations"!

There are four Marian dogmas:
Mary’s Divine Motherhood,
Immaculate Conception,
Perpetual Virginity, and
Bodily Assumption.

Source: https://www.dioceseoftyler.org/2022/07/01/what-catholics-must-believe-about-the-blessed-virgin-mary/

Holy Mother Church says that these are divinely revealed truths to which the faithful must adhere.

Now the interesting thing about those commands from the RCC is that none of them are found in the Bible.

It is that fact that I can say with clarity that the Catholic church is NOT Biblical Christianity!

According to your understanding and tradition!

So how does these four dogmas (truths revealed by Christ and taught by his church) make Mary divine?

Do you reject the virgin birth?

Thanks

 

[donadams]

YES!

You ask............
Does include Jesus?...........That is not worth of an answer with all due repects.
Infants?....................................They are under the grace and blood of Christ and have no accountability.
The mentally I’ll or anyone not exercising free will?.........Same as above.

Please no not waste your time posting what any Pope has said. They mean nothing to me.

You posted.............
Gen 3:15
Lk 1:28
Lk 1:35
Lk 1:47
Lk 1:49
Song of Solomon 4:1

There is NOT ONE single suggesion or thought in those Scriptures that validate the Immaculate conception of Mary. I say again to you..........There is not a single Bible Scripture to support such a false teaching.

Rev 12:1 a woman clothed with the sun has nothing whatsoever to do with Mary. The woman in that Scripture is ISRAEL.

The papacy is biblical!

Jesus established the church with Peter and the apostles

Matt 16:17 blessed is Peter the rock that Christ (and Christ alone) builds his church upon!

Christ founded the apostolic church to teach (truth revealed by Christ) and sanctify (administer the grace of baptism) all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

With a visible head on earth, Peter the representative and vicar of Christ! Isa 22:21-22 Matt 16:18-19

Thks

 

[Rodger]

The papacy is biblical!

Jesus established the church with Peter and the apostles

Matt 16:17 blessed is Peter the rock that Christ (and Christ alone) builds his church upon!

Christ founded the apostolic church to teach (truth revealed by Christ) and sanctify (administer the grace of baptism) all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

With a visible head on earth, Peter the representative and vicar of Christ! Isa 22:21-22 Matt 16:18-19

Thks

No sir.....is most certainly is NOT.

Jesus did not uild the church on Peter. Jesus built the church on WHAT PETER SAID.
As always, I encourage all Catholics to read the Bible and when you do that you will see in Matthew 16....
vs 16, "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

The Rock was "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.".
This was a reference to salvation through Jesus the Christ.

My dear friend..........The phrase you posted does not appear in the New Testament. Neither the Apostle Peter nor any other apostle was or ever became the Vicar of Christ. That is, while the apostles functioned as pastors over the developing church, none of them had singular authority over the other apostles or the entire church on earth.

 

[donadams]

Again, you are incorrect. Catholic, but not Bible Christianity.

The water in John 3 does not say "BAPTISM". I literally says "WATER".

Most every Bible scholar says that relates to the am -biotic fluid of Physical birth as I have already detailed for you but it seems you choose to ignore it.

All the early church fathers say baptism

And scripture says baptism
Ez 36:25-27
Matt 28:19
Mk 16:16
Jn 3:5mJn 4:1
Acts 2:38-39
Acts 2:32
Acts 8
Acts 22:16
1 cor 16:13
Gal 3:27
Titus 3:5
1 pet 3:20-21

Notice they did not follow your tradition and go preach acceptable christ by faith alone!

Verse 22 they immediately went to the river (water) and they baptized!

Thks

The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!

*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Initiation!!!


Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!

“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!
No union with God and His saints thru Christ the mediator!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone! Jn 3:5

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13 and cannot be repeated

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!

 

[Rodger]

According to your understanding and tradition!

So how does these four dogmas (truths revealed by Christ and taught by his church) make Mary divine?

Do you reject the virgin birth?

Thanks

Again.....You are incorrect. I have NO opinions and my understanding is the literal Word of God!

Now, look at what I actually said...........
"There are four Marian dogmas:
Mary’s Divine Motherhood,
Immaculate Conception,
Perpetual Virginity, and
Bodily Assumption."

Marian doctrines are only taught by the Catholic church. All of those four imply to the layman that Mary is "above and thought more highly" than any other woman.

All of those dogmas imply a solemn definition of a false narritive which is a part of the Catholic's Christological doctrine, but it was proclaimed as independent dogma. Though highlighting a privilege of Mary it in fact stresses the dignity and holiness required to become "Mother of God" and applying to her a divine nature.

YES. I believe in the virgin birth as it is taught in the Bible.

However, the Immaculate Conception of Mary IS NOT found in the Bible neither is it implied.

 

[Rodger]

Rev 12:1 if the child is Jesus Christ then the woman MUST be Mary!

Gen 3:15 it is not possible to be at enmity total war with satan and be affected by his works (sin)

Lk 1:28 full of grace is immaculate holiness

Lk 1:28 who is with Mary? The Lord!
Anything connected with God MUST be holy, and consecrated to God’s service alone!

The Holy Spirit could only overshadow an immaculate pure Mary never a sinner!

What are the things mentioned in Lk 1:49 things plural
What are the possibilities?

Thanks

I know it’s a whole other subject but why does a truth or doctrine need to be in scripture to be true?

Where does scripture say scripture alone, actually there are multiple verses that imply truth other than in scripture, and most of what is in scripture was originally taught in person then written at a much latter date.

Thanks

NO!

One reason it can not be Mary is tha Mary did not experience any of the things listed in Rev. 12.

Another reason why it will be impossible for the YOU as a Catholic to say Mary is that woman of Revelation chapter 12, is that verse 17 goes on to say that she has 'offspring' (seed) further to the male child born to her in heaven and snatched away to God's throne.

Now If Christ was literally her 'seed', then how come she bore others, as 'the rest of her seed'?

Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3 name four men called Jesus' brethren: James, Joses, Simon, and Judas called Jude. Verse 56 mentions that Jesus had sisters, but they are not named1. The brothers and sisters of the Lord are also mentioned in Matthew 12:46-50, Luke 8:19, John 2:12, 7:3, Acts 1:14, 1 Cor. 9:5, and Galatians 1:19.

The three major views have come to be known by the names of their fourth-century proponents:
Helvidius, Epiphanius and Jerome. The Helvidian view, which probably most modern exegetes, even including some Roman Catholic scholars, hold, is that the brothers were sons of Joseph and Mary, born after Jesus.
They of course would be His 1/2 brothers and sisters.

Source: J.P. Meier, A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus, vol. 1 (New York: Doubleday, 1991), pp. 316–332; and ‘The Brothers and Sisters of Jesus in Ecumenical Perspective’, Catholic Biblical Quarterly 54 (1992), 1–28.