Call No Man Father

[donadams]

A study of the Old Test. reveals that the term......"Queen of Heaven" was used to identify the wife of Nimrod in Genesis whose name was Semiramis.

Jeremiah 7:18......
" The children gather wood, the fathers kindle fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven. And they pour out drink offerings to other gods, to provoke me to anger."

The second passage that refers to the queen of heaven is Jeremiah 44:17-25, where Jeremiah is giving the people the word of the Lord which God has spoken to him. He reminds the people that their disobedience and idolatry has caused the Lord to be very angry with them and to punish them with calamity. Jeremiah warns them that greater punishments await if they do not repent. They reply that they have no intentions of giving up their worship of idols, promising to continue pouring out drink offerings to the queen of heaven, Ashtoreth, and even going so far as to credit her with the peace and prosperity they once enjoyed because of God’s grace and mercy...........sound familiar to today???????

Does anti/Christ mean there is not a true Christ?
Does false doctrine, prophets etc mean there is not true doctrine etc.?
So a false queen of heaven does not prevent the true queen of heaven

And the mother of peace and mercy!
Mother of our salvation!

Thks

 

[donadams]

You see my friend......The Catholic religion considers the Pope to be the "VICAR" of Christ.

The term "Vicar" comes from the Latin word vicarius, which means "instead of."

So then, in the RCC, the vicar is the representative of a higher-ranking official, who was in fact Jesus Christ and he has all of the same authority and power that that official has. Calling the pope the "Vicar of Christ" implies that he has the same power and authority that Christ had over the church.

Now, you/we can discuss this all day long, but this is an ingrained Catholic tradition that will not be changed by talking about it.

Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same mission power and authority as Christ!

Jn 29:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Act on the person of christ

2 Corinthians 2:10
To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;

Vicariously it is Christ who acting thru the apostles and we must submit and obey for the have care for our souls!

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Thks

 

[donadams]

Agreed!

However my dear friend, the Catholic believers accept Catholic "traditions" as a higher level of authority than the actual Word of God and that is the problem when it comes to what they do and what they believe.

Actually, the Catholic religion is not Biblical Christianity but is a religion in and of itself.
(I hope that does not get me banned or a warning. If it not acceptable please delete it).

No sir we thank God for you and your faith, and thank you for sharing in a reasonable way and seeking a biblical understanding!
Truth matters

Traditions, plural would be customs habits etc. that not what we mean by the singular capital T ((tradition))

Tradition means the truths revealed by Christ and commanded to be taught by the apostolic church to all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

Christ and His church that He founded are one and teach one and the same truth! Isa 53:5 Acts 9:4 Jn 15:4-5 eph 5:24 eph 5:32

Scripture is part of tradition and is the product of tradition

The revelation of Jesus Christ
The tradition
Or
Teaching of the apostles!
Acts 2:42

The word of God
Thru the apostolic church
By
Word (verbal) & scripture (written)

Amen!

(Note: teaching authority of Christ in His apostolic church, not traditions, habits, customs etc.)

Divine Tradition
Sacred Tradition / apostolic tradition

Every word the apostles heard from the mouth of Christ and were commanded to teach to all men!

The truths revealed by Christ and commanded by Christ to be taught by the apostles to all men!

Matt 28:19 does NOT say: go and teach all men to observe “scripture alone”, it does Not say go write books and let the people make their own faith!

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Commanded to teach not to write “scripture alone”!

Commanded tradition not “scripture alone”!

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Apostolic tradition (doctrine) Not scripture alone”!

Nor is there more than one Christian faith revealed by Christ and taught by the apostolic church!
Eph 4:5

The Authority of the apostolic church is binds the conscience of every Christian to believe the Christian faith or the truths revealed by Christ and found in the creeds, didache, dogma’s and Decree’s of apostolic councils.

The apostles are commanded by Christ to teach tradition.

One revelation of Jesus Christ!
Word (Verbal)
and
Epistle (scripture)
2 thes 2:15



We are commanded by Christ to obey tradition. Matt 28:19-20
Tradition (oral teaching) or every word the apostles heard from the mouth of Christ.

Obedience of faith! Rom 16:26

And scripture supports tradition.

Example of tradition: 1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you…

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Only Christ has authority to establish the one true church and to send the apostles to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation, all sects are full of errors and the tradition of men devoid of grace, truth, and authority.


One mediator:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

On the level of justice Christ is the only mediator, obtaining atonement, grace, mercy, and salvation.

Anyone in the communion of saints can pray and intercede for those in need, and the apostles mediate between Christ and the church, the communion of saints. Matt 28:20

And the angels minister to those who will inherit salvation. Heb 1:14

(Only a few examples cos almost every page of the New Testament supports verbal teaching of christ or the apostles)

Verses supporting Sacred tradition in verbal form:

Matt 28:19-20
Acts 1:2-8
Acts 15:7
Rom 16:26
1 cor 11:23
2 thes 2:15

Word of God preached verbally not sola scriptura:

Matt 28:19
Acts 17:13

Verbal Revelation
Gen 15:1
Ex 3:4
Ex3:14
Matt 16:16
Lk 3:2
Acts 2 Peter preached verbally

Other forms (visions, dreams, apparitions)
Matt 1:23
Lk 1:26:37
Acts 10:3 & 10:19
Acts 13:16 Paul preached verbally
Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament His handiwork, a form of revelation!





Tradition is divine revelation from Christ
Both verbal and scripture
Both are tradition!
2 thes 2:15
Tradition / revelation
Either by word (verbal) or epistle (scripture)
So one cannot have more importance or be superior to the other

One revelation of Jesus Christ!
Tradition
Verbal or scripture


Revelation ended with the ascension of Christ. Jn 1:3

Only one faith (revelation) eph 4:5

Jn 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Jn 21:24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

Sola scriptura says:
Christ and most of the apostles wrote nothing, so they had No authority, no teaching!
Only those who wrote had authority!

Even if there was no scripture we would still have the truths revealed by God with Christ in His church with the guarantee of the Holy Spirit!

The apostolic church does not require scripture to know the truth, they were instructed by Christ (God) the truth itself (Jn 14:6) in person for three years, the church existed before the New Testament (not cannon til 381) the church exercised Her mission, power, and authority without scripture, to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19



Paul from us the apostles or apostolic church

2 Thessalonians 2:2

That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.


If you accept sola scriptura you must accept tradition, the word of God was handed down verbally by Christ to His apostles, then part was written, and approved by the apostolic church.

Not all scripture is truth and the word of God
Gnostic writings are condemned scripture


1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

1 Thessalonians 2:23 ---> And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 ---> So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

Luke 10:16 ---> Whoever listens to you listens to me, and whoever rejects you rejects me, and whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.

Hebrews 13:7 ---> Remember your leaders, those who spoke the word of God to you...

More to follow

 

[donadams]

We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (Matt 16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

(Not scripture alone)
Sacred Scripture according to the churches cannon and interpretation? Yes!
Scripture alone? No!

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things by, by whom also he made the worlds;

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!


For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42

Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17 1 Jn 4:6

Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21

Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18

Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23

Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the canon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!

The Christian faith is revealed by Christ!

Jesus Christ before ascending to heaven gave His apostles the fullness of truth, the apostolic church our mother and teacher is commanded by Him to teach and to sanctify with her sacraments (the promise of the spirit) all men unto eternal salvation! We are commanded to believe and obey! Matt 28:19

How can the Protestant concept: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the canon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!

It is impossible to reject the church or her teaching without rejecting Christ who founded the church and revealed her teaching!

You cannot reject the kingdom established by the king and say I obey and submit to the king!

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

Christ and His church are one!
((Inseparable unity))
Acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 eph 5:32 Isa 53:5 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20 Lk 22:29

The 30,000 sects (the tradition of men) having no authority at all! And holding and teaching contrary and new doctrines that oppose the Christian faith that was revealed by Christ and taught by holy mother church! Matt 28:19 acts 16:17


The church was founded and existed and exercised authority in teaching, governance, and sanctifying souls before the New Testament was written!

The church does not require the scriptures to know the truth!

The church wrote the scripture!

The church was taught by Christ in person for three years!

And commanded by Christ to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

For 30 plus years before the apostles wrote scripture
By the inspiration of the Holy Ghost they taught and preached and settle matters of doctrine!

Acts 8:12 & 25 & 35
Acts 13:5
1 pet 1:25

 

[donadams]

Tradition is every word the apostles heard from the mouth of Christ and taught !

Some was written by some of the apostles as the Spirit lead, as a written testimony to Christ! Acts 1:8

Example of tradition:

You will recognize these thru out the New Testament

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you…

1 Corinthians 11:2
Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

Jude 1:3
Beloved, when I gave all diligence towrite unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me towrite unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Tradition!

Thks

 

[donadams]

Yes....I get it. The Catholic church believe that it can change the literal words of God to make it say what they want it to say.

Here in the South we call that the ....."Burger King Theology, YOU can have it your way"!

Mungo is no longer here I’ll be happy to answer any questions you have. Thks

 

[donadams]

Kiwi, I understand that you are very fond of Catholic traditions. I can not help you with that.

What I can do however is quote the Bible Scriptures for you. You believe and accept the Pope as the "Vicar" of Christ which means he is IN PLACE OF Christ.

Now then, I encourge you to consider that the only biblical “Vicar of Christ” is the Holy Spirit.

John 14:26 declares,..........
“But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.”

Then in John 14:16-18 proclaims, ........
“And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever — the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you know Him, for He lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.”

The Holy Spirit is Christ’s only “replacement” on the earth. The Holy Spirit is our Counselor, Teacher (John 14:26), and guide into all truth (John 16:13).

He is not catholic
He is also wrong cos a natural father sows the seed of natural life and spiritual father sows the seed of spiritual life, eternal life!
The gospel is the seed!

Thks

 

[donadams]

Kiwi, I understand that you are very fond of Catholic traditions. I can not help you with that.

What I can do however is quote the Bible Scriptures for you. You believe and accept the Pope as the "Vicar" of Christ which means he is IN PLACE OF Christ.

Now then, I encourge you to consider that the only biblical “Vicar of Christ” is the Holy Spirit.

John 14:26 declares,..........
“But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.”

Then in John 14:16-18 proclaims, ........
“And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever — the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you know Him, for He lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.”

The Holy Spirit is Christ’s only “replacement” on the earth. The Holy Spirit is our Counselor, Teacher (John 14:26), and guide into all truth (John 16:13).

In place of Christ is correct cos Christ the king and only mediator of the covenant and head of the church Ascended to heaven!

No king administers his own kingdom

Christ appointed Peter the visible head of the church on earth to administer the kingdom with the apostles

See Joseph under pharaoh has the administration of the kingdom and his brothers were required to obey him!

Obedience to the ministers that the king Himself appointed is obedience to the king!

Isa 22:21-22 father keys
Matt 16:17-19 keys of jurisdictional authority and power to bind and loose note: this same authority and power belonged to the successors of Moses (Matt 23) and was taken from them (Matt 21:43) and given to Peter and the apostles

But it ain’t Burger King have it your way, Christ and his church are one in unity & truth! Acts 9:4 Isa 53:5 Jn 15:4 Jn 20:21-23 eph 5:24 Eph 4:5 eph 5:32 Jude 1;3

Thks

 

[donadams]

Kiwi, I understand that you are very fond of Catholic traditions. I can not help you with that.

What I can do however is quote the Bible Scriptures for you. You believe and accept the Pope as the "Vicar" of Christ which means he is IN PLACE OF Christ.

Now then, I encourge you to consider that the only biblical “Vicar of Christ” is the Holy Spirit.

John 14:26 declares,..........
“But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.”

Then in John 14:16-18 proclaims, ........
“And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever — the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you know Him, for He lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.”

The Holy Spirit is Christ’s only “replacement” on the earth. The Holy Spirit is our Counselor, Teacher (John 14:26), and guide into all truth (John 16:13).

The Holy Spirit leads the apostles or apostolic church into all truth and they teach us by command of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:19

Christians must be taught or instructed, according to the sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed, as commanded by Christ! Matt 28:19-20 acts 1:2

Lk 1:4
Matt 5:14
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 16:17
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Titus 2:12
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

No Christian has the authority to read scripture for yourself and decide your own doctrines or beliefs! “One faith” Eph 4:5 Thee faith once handed to the saints” Jude 1:3

Those who submit to the apostolic church know the truth! Those who reject The apostolic church are in error!

1 John 4:6
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Members of the communion of saints must submit to the teaching of the apostles: “the light (truth) of the world” and the pillar of truth! Matt 5:14 1 Tim 3:15

Christ is king and demands obedience in His kingdom, His truth and to His authorized ministers!

Christians must be taught!

Thks

 

[donadams]

All believers a re priests in the NT. There is no special class of priest as Christ has completed the sacrifice that we need.
To call a priest father, is nonsense.

Actually there are three

Jesus Christ the eternal (heb 7:17) and high priest (heb 8:1)

The low priests under his authority but in the same ministerial orders of melchisedec offering the same sacrifice as Christ! (Jn 1:29)

Ordained or ministerial priesthood
Priesthood is plural


With priestly ministry:
Mk 3:14 “ordained”
Matt 22:14 Jn 15:16 “chosen” “ordained”
Jn 20:21 “sent by Christ with His authority”
Jn 20:23 “power to forgive sins”
Acts 1:8 “anointing with power”
acts 1:15-26 “ministry / bishop”
Acts 2:38-39 “administered sacraments”
acts 14:23 “ordained”
Acts 16:4 “ordained “
Rom 15:16 “minister / sanctify”
1 cor 9:14 “ordained”
1 Tim 2:7 “ordained”
1 Tim 3:1-2 “bishop”
1 Tim 4:14 “priest” “priestly ministry”
Phil 1:1 “bishops deacons”
James 5:14 “anointing with oil”

The ministerial priesthood acts in “the person of Christ” so it is Christ who acts thru them vicariously.
2 cor 2:10 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24


And the royal priesthood of Christians as you properly say!
1 pet 2:9

Thks

 

[donadams]

Agreed.

Job 32:21
“Let me now be partial to no one,
Nor flatter any man.

Matt 23:9
Call no man father? Jesus is condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?

Or is this absolute?

God calls men father!

Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Jesus calls men father!

Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Mary calls men father!

Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Peter calls men father!

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Acts 3:22 Moses said unto the fathers…

The stephen calls men father!

Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!

Apostles call men father!

1 Jn 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

The Bible calls men father!

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Jn 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Jesus does not rebuke her for calling men father!


Then there is spiritual fathers who have care for our souls! Heb 13:7-17

Thks

 

[donadams]

Call no man father. Depends on the situation. Abraham was called father because Abraham is the jews literal ancestor and linage as the word can be used for an ancestor, thats why Abraham is called father in scripture because the jews come from Abraham seed, literal ancestor and elder, but i dont know why people would call a priest or the pope or some random person father if they not of there seed. Only God would be called Father in those situations because God is father of all.

Can be spiritual brothers and sisters in Christ but there is only 1 Father in Christ.

Are you sure?
a natural father sows the seed of natural life and spiritual father sows the seed of spiritual life, eternal life!
The gospel is the seed!

1 Tim 1:1 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith:

1 Corinthians 4:15
For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not-many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

Paul and John are speaking to adult Christians so they are our spiritual fathers who have care for our souls!
Heb 13:7-17

Thks

 

[donadams]

Call no man father. Depends on the situation. Abraham was called father because Abraham is the jews literal ancestor and linage as the word can be used for an ancestor, thats why Abraham is called father in scripture because the jews come from Abraham seed, literal ancestor and elder, but i dont know why people would call a priest or the pope or some random person father if they not of there seed. Only God would be called Father in those situations because God is father of all.

Can be spiritual brothers and sisters in Christ but there is only 1 Father in Christ.

Are you sure?
a natural father sows the seed of natural life and spiritual father sows the seed of spiritual life, eternal life!
The gospel is the seed!

1 Tim 1:1 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith:

1 Corinthians 4:15
For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not-many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Im happy to say that Mary is the mother of Jesus, but i wouldnt go as far as shes the Mother or Queen of Heaven.

If God himself is the King of Heaven and the Father of Heven then calling Mary the Queen of heaven or the Mother of heaven would basically be equal to God or challenging God for his throne.

Yoy can only have a King or a Queen. I dont think Mary born of man is the author of life who always was, so i think God the King wins.

Not equal with God obviously not

Jesus is king according to the line of David and in that line the mother of the king is queen

Rev 12:1

Thks

 

[donadams]

Im happy to say that Mary is the mother of Jesus, but i wouldnt go as far as shes the Mother or Queen of Heaven.

If God himself is the King of Heaven and the Father of Heven then calling Mary the Queen of heaven or the Mother of heaven would basically be equal to God or challenging God for his throne.

Yoy can only have a King or a Queen. I dont think Mary born of man is the author of life who always was, so i think God the King wins.

Apostolic Council Of Ephesus – 431 A.D. with authority from Christ to bind and loose the faith of all Christians. Matt 16:19 & 18:18

If anyone does not confess that Emmanuel is God in truth, and therefore that the holy virgin is the mother of God (for she bore in a fleshly way the Word of God become flesh) let him be anathema.

Thanks

 

[donadams]

The people were praising and giving offerings to baal through jezebel and she is called the the queen of heaven according to Jereimiah, so im not sure why anyone would want to call the blessed virgin Mary the queen of heaven.

In your logic there would be no Christ cos after all there is an anti-Christ?

What about mother of our salvation?

Thks

 

[Rodger]

Matt 23:9
Call no man father? Jesus is condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?

Or is this absolute?

God calls men father!

Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Jesus calls men father!

Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Mary calls men father!

Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Peter calls men father!

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Acts 3:22 Moses said unto the fathers…

The stephen calls men father!

Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!

Apostles call men father!

1 Jn 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

The Bible calls men father!

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Jn 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Jesus does not rebuke her for calling men father!


Then there is spiritual fathers who have care for our souls! Heb 13:7-17

Thks

I am not sure what your point is, but the Scriptures do not validate your thoughts.

Calling men fathers as in Jn 4:20 or Acts 3:13 and Heb. 13 has nothing to do with Catholi believers calling their priests "FATHER".

 

[donadams]

The people were praising and giving offerings to baal through jezebel and she is called the the queen of heaven according to Jereimiah, so im not sure why anyone would want to call the blessed virgin Mary the queen of heaven.

Bible proves that Mary is not a Goddess?

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women. Lk 1:28

How can a goddess be full of grace?
Hail Mary full of grace!

How can the Lord be with a goddess?
The lord is with thee!

How can a goddess be blessed!
Blessed art thou, and all generations shall call me blessed!

Lk 1: 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

How can a goddess be the mother of God?

Lk 1: 45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

How could a goddess be faithful?

Lk 1: 46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

How could a goddess glorify God or have a savior?

Lk 1:48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

How could a goddess be humble?

Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

How could a goddess be the immaculate conception and the have the Holy Spirit accomplish the Miraculous conception of Jesus?

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

How could a goddess be a perpetual Virgin bringing forth the savior of the world?

Jn 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

How could a goddess be our spiritual mother?

Thks

Mary is the immaculate conception

 

[Rodger]

The Holy Spirit leads the apostles or apostolic church into all truth and they teach us by command of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:19

Christians must be taught or instructed, according to the sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed, as commanded by Christ! Matt 28:19-20 acts 1:2

Lk 1:4
Matt 5:14
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 16:17
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Titus 2:12
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

No Christian has the authority to read scripture for yourself and decide your own doctrines or beliefs! “One faith” Eph 4:5 Thee faith once handed to the saints” Jude 1:3

Those who submit to the apostolic church know the truth! Those who reject The apostolic church are in error!

1 John 4:6
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Members of the communion of saints must submit to the teaching of the apostles: “the light (truth) of the world” and the pillar of truth! Matt 5:14 1 Tim 3:15

Christ is king and demands obedience in His kingdom, His truth and to His authorized ministers!

Christians must be taught!

Thks

You said.........
"No Christian has the authority to read scripture for yourself and decide your own doctrines or beliefs! "

That is a classic Catholic response and is categorically and Biblically incorrect!!!!

For the person who is Born Again, understanding the Scriptures is very easy.

 

[Rodger]

He is not catholic
He is also wrong cos a natural father sows the seed of natural life and spiritual father sows the seed of spiritual life, eternal life!
The gospel is the seed!

Thks

Actually my friend, the "Gospel" is the death, and resurrection of Jesus the Christ.

Then you should also know that Jesus is the SEED promised to Eve in Genesis 3:15.

 

[sandyj]

Actually my friend, the "Gospel" is the death, and resurrection of Jesus the Christ.

Then you should also know that Jesus is the SEED promised to Eve in Genesis 3:15.

Seed of promise being aware of the sin and sinners and confronting the sinners.

Sandy