Call No Man Father

[Corn Pop]

Its simple to understand what Jesus was talking about.

Call no man Father within the Church as there is only one Father and that is God the Father and he alone gets that status and title. No one else has that title. God is the Father of the Church and no else gets his title and takes that glory from him.

Is it not clear?, even the Apostle Paul called himself a child of God and everyone else his brothers, he never wanted to be called Father Paul or any other Apostles didnt ask or get called by no Father title, there ain't no Father Peter, but there is a brother Peter.

Yet for some reason the church decided to start giving people called priests Gods status and they should be addressed by the title father when it should be brother and some people even call the pope the holy father as the greatest when it should also be brother. So i don't understand it.

I have never been institutionalised religiously and i studied myself so I still have critical thinking.

 

[Corn Pop]

Why would anyone in the body of Christ and within Yeshuas Church give someone other than God himself the title and status of Father if they believe they are Gods children?

Calling a priest brother or the pope brother would be more scripturally correct.

Words are powerful and the word Father is giving someone a high title and status and under Christ and in Christs Church there is only 1 who gets thats title. No one else takes it from him and takes his glory.

 

[Rodger]

It is also a teaching from God.
Just as fig seeds can NEVER bear grapes, neither can God's seed bear liars, thieves, or adulterers.

So you believe that God's seed won't make a habit of bearing liars, thieves, or adulterers.
Do you realize how that sounds ?

I believe both.
You seem to be unaware that much of Rom 7 is the narrative of Paul' s past while still trying unsuccessfully to serve God according to the Law.
His reference to the past in verse 5 is the basis of that which followed. "For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."
And, Rom 7:23 is answered by Rom 8:2.
And, Rom 7:24 was answered in Rom 6:6.

1 John 1:8, along with verses 6 and 10, address those walking in darkness-sin.
Sinners are the ones who cannot say they have no sins, that they know God, or that they have fellowship with God.

Wrong.
I have escaped the deceptions of those foisting off Christianity as the body of Christ and full of sin.

It was cited by Paul in order to show the Jews that just because they had the Law, it didn't fulfill their need for a Savior.
The Jews were no better off than the Gentiles !

My body is at the beck and call of my new mind.
It can't do anything without my prior authorization. (Excluding autonomous things like sneezing, blinking, coughing, etc)
My body has been destroyed, (Rom 6:6, Gal 5:24) and I have been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
I am a new creature, and no longer of Adam's seed.

That refutes your previous sentences.
Which is true for you ?
Does the seed of God bear sinners, or not ?

Thy won't sin at all.

I must ask then, what was it you repented of, if not sin ?
It is written..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)

Your POV seems to be that they will never arrive at that transformation.
I wish you would reconsider.

Sin does indeed impact believers: but that sin is committed by the unbelieving, unrepentant, unregenerated, unreborn of God's seed, around them..

Such misinformation and false theology combined with constant back and forth is unacceptable for me.

You have made the choice to live under this kind of false teaching so you will have to live with it.

May the Lord bless you my friend.

 

[Rodger]

Why would anyone in the body of Christ and within Yeshuas Church give someone other than God himself the title and status of Father if they believe they are Gods children?

Calling a priest brother or the pope brother would be more scripturally correct.

Words are powerful and the word Father is giving someone a high title and status and under Christ and in Christs Church there is only 1 who gets thats title. No one else takes it from him and takes his glory.

Or simply...Pastor!

 

[Rodger]

Why would anyone in the body of Christ and within Yeshuas Church give someone other than God himself the title and status of Father if they believe they are Gods children?

Calling a priest brother or the pope brother would be more scripturally correct.

Words are powerful and the word Father is giving someone a high title and status and under Christ and in Christs Church there is only 1 who gets thats title. No one else takes it from him and takes his glory.

The same question could be asked about why does the Catholic church forbid their clergy to be married when the Bible says that to be a Bishop/Overseer a man must be the husband of one wife.

Why does the Catholic church believe in the sinlessness of Mary when the Bible says "ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God".

I can go on and on but I think the point is made!

 

[GodsGrace]

The same question could be asked about why does the Catholic church forbid their clergy to be married when the Bible says that to be a Bishop/Overseer a man must be the husband of one wife.

Why does the Catholic church believe in the sinlessness of Mary when the Bible says "ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God".

I can go on and on but I think the point is made!

Rodger, I don't intend to begin a back and forth since I'm not even Catholic!

However, the CC began with the Clergy not being permitted to be married in the 1200s if I remember right.
And the reason had nothing to do with biblical reasons. You might hear it said that it was to have the priest devote all his time to his ministry, but the real reason was a far more mundane one - but which I can't remember at this moment.
Let's just say that it was convenient for the institution of the church. (small c).

As to the sinlessness of Mary...
I've thought a lot about this and read the ECFs in this regard and, I must say, it does make sense.
Do you really think God would put HIS SON in the body of a woman that possessed the sin nature?

I don't think so....
But it'll end here for me.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Such misinformation and false theology combined with constant back and forth is unacceptable for me.

The information I have been given allows me to defend the doctrine which is according to Godliness. (1 Tim 6:3)
False theology only accommodates sin.

You have made the choice to live under this kind of false teaching so you will have to live with it.

Men will live forever for their obedience to God.

May the Lord bless you my friend.

Are you blessing what you think is a purveyor of false doctrine ?

 

[Corn Pop]

As to the sinlessness of Mary...
I've thought a lot about this and read the ECFs in this regard and, I must say, it does make sense.
Do you really think God would put HIS SON in the body of a woman that possessed the sin nature?

I don't think so....
But it'll end here for me.

When a baby is growing in a womb it's just gets oxygen and nutrients from the mother and they never share or mix blood. They are individual human beings.

 

[Hopeful 2]

When a baby is growing in a womb it's just gets oxygen and nutrients from the mother and they never share or mix blood. They are individual human beings.

Are you sure about that?

 

[Rodger]

The information I have been given allows me to defend the doctrine which is according to Godliness. (1 Tim 6:3)
False theology only accommodates sin.

Men will live forever for their obedience to God.

Are you blessing what you think is a purveyor of false doctrine ?

I am asking God to bless your understanding so that you will be able to rightly divide the Word of God.

 

[Rodger]

Rodger, I don't intend to begin a back and forth since I'm not even Catholic!

However, the CC began with the Clergy not being permitted to be married in the 1200s if I remember right.
And the reason had nothing to do with biblical reasons. You might hear it said that it was to have the priest devote all his time to his ministry, but the real reason was a far more mundane one - but which I can't remember at this moment.
Let's just say that it was convenient for the institution of the church. (small c).

As to the sinlessness of Mary...
I've thought a lot about this and read the ECFs in this regard and, I must say, it does make sense.
Do you really think God would put HIS SON in the body of a woman that possessed the sin nature?

I don't think so....
But it'll end here for me.

To say that the sinlessness of Mary "Makes sense to YOU',simply means that you do not accept the Word of God.

Romans 3:23 was written by Paul from God and says....."ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God".

Deut. 4:2 says...........
" Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you."

Now with all due respect, what makes sense to you is not the issue is it. Did God say what He wanted to say.
Do you have the ability and authorization to change it. NO! All you and I can do is accept it or reject it and YOU have rejected it.

As for celibacy of priests......the answer is the same. God said that a bishop/Overseerer MUST BE THE HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE which means he is to be a married man.

Celibacy of the Catholic priests is then a direct disobeying of the command of God! WHY does not matter at all.

Thanks for your imput and observations.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I am asking God to bless your understanding so that you will be able to rightly divide the Word of God.

Good morning, Roger.
Thanks for the prayers !
I hope you are free from sin so that God will hear them. (John 9:31)

 

[Rodger]

Good morning, Roger.
Thanks for the prayers !
I hope you are free from sin so that God will hear them. (John 9:31)

That is what is called "Condescension" or as some others might say....."Elitism".

Then some others less enlightened might say....."Holier than thou" attitude.

Apostle John wrote, in 1st John 1:8.....“ If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” and “ If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us” in 1st John 1:10.

I realize that you do not believe in the words as written in those Scriptures but they are nonetheless still there.
I feel sad for any man who says he isn't a sinner, because Jesus came and died for sinners, not sinless people (of which, by the way, there are none!).............Pride can do that!

We are free from sin in the sense that we’re freed from the penalty of death and the consequences, but we are still entangled by the desires of the flesh and still do what we know we shouldn’t do and don’t always do what we know we should (Rom 7:19). Welcome to the club Paul. He’s in good company, isn’t he? We will never quite be free from sin in this life, although we should be sinning less over time, but until the time we enter the kingdom, we remain sinners. Even so, God now sees us as having Jesus’ own righteousness. We are declared righteous in Him and only in Christ can we stand before God.

According the Word of God, I am free from the penalty of sin.

 

[GodsGrace]

When a baby is growing in a womb it's just gets oxygen and nutrients from the mother and they never share or mix blood. They are individual human beings.

Hi Corn Pop
I made 2 babies.
They didn't feel like individual human beings.
They felt like a part of me.

If God had His baby through the intervention of NO MAN....
Because He wanted that baby to be divine and PURE and sans a SIN NATURE...

It makes perfectly good sense to me and to the church fathers, who had bigger brains than neither you nor I,
to believe that the WOMAN who was going to carry God's baby and keep Him in HER BODY for 9 months
would also be sans the sin nature by preference.

This is called the Immaculate Conception.

 

[GodsGrace]

To say that the sinlessness of Mary "Makes sense to YOU',simply means that you do not accept the Word of God.

Romans 3:23 was written by Paul from God and says....."ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God".

Deut. 4:2 says...........
" Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you."

Now with all due respect, what makes sense to you is not the issue is it. Did God say what He wanted to say.
Do you have the ability and authorization to change it. NO! All you and I can do is accept it or reject it and YOU have rejected it.

As for celibacy of priests......the answer is the same. God said that a bishop/Overseerer MUST BE THE HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE which means he is to be a married man.

Celibacy of the Catholic priests is then a direct disobeying of the command of God! WHY does not matter at all.

Thanks for your imput and observations.

Your welcomed, I'm sure.

Ditto to all of the above....

You also, Rodger, accept what makes sense to YOU.
Do YOU have the ability and authorization to change what God said?
Do you KNOW what God said?

I'll tell you this:
Catholicism has its problems.

But Protestantism has more, as I'm coming to believe more and more.

The very big problem with Protestantism is that every single person gets to decide what the NT teaches....
what THEY believe to be correct or incorrect doctrine....what makes sense to them.

Each person gets to have their very own truth....they get to CHOOSE what that truth is.
This means that in Protestantism THERE IS NO TRUTH.
Since there can only be ONE TRUTH.
And You will not agree with nor accept the truth of other protestants on this very forum.

And that, Rodger, is a fact you cannot deny.

 

[Corn Pop]

Hi Corn Pop
I made 2 babies.
They didn't feel like individual human beings.
They felt like a part of me.

If God had His baby through the intervention of NO MAN....
Because He wanted that baby to be divine and PURE and sans a SIN NATURE...

It makes perfectly good sense to me and to the church fathers, who had bigger brains than neither you nor I,
to believe that the WOMAN who was going to carry God's baby and keep Him in HER BODY for 9 months
would also be sans the sin nature by preference.

This is called the Immaculate Conception.

As far as im aware babies through the mothers egg will share genetics with the mother like biologically connected and the mother gives it nutrients and oxygen but the baby makes its own blood and is its own being. I don't have the same blood type as my mother.

 

[Hopeful 2]

That is what is called "Condescension" or as some others might say....."Elitism".
Then some others less enlightened might say....."Holier than thou" attitude.

The verse I quoted from John 9:31 applies to me too.

Apostle John wrote, in 1st John 1:8.....“ If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” and “ If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us” in 1st John 1:10.

John is addressing those who do not walk in the light, in verses 6, 8, and 10.
They cannot say they have fellowship with God or that they have no sin, or that they have never sinned.
From 1 John 2:3-6, we also know those who walk in darkness cannot say they know God.

I realize that you do not believe in the words as written in those Scriptures but they are nonetheless still there.
I feel sad for any man who says he isn't a sinner, because Jesus came and died for sinners, not sinless people (of which, by the way, there are none!).............Pride can do that!

I do believe them.
I also know who they are written about.
Sinners cannot walk in the light, because the light is God; and there is no sin in God.
Those walking in God, can say they have no sin.

We are free from sin in the sense that we’re freed from the penalty of death and the consequences,

If one sins, they are not free from death or the sin's consequences.

but we are still entangled by the desires of the flesh and still do what we know we shouldn’t do and don’t always do what we know we should (Rom 7:19).

If we do as Paul taught in Rom 6:6, we can destroy the flesh.
If we do as Paul taught in Rom 6:3-4, we can crucify the old man and be raised from the grave, with Christ, to walk in newness of life.
Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."

Welcome to the club Paul. He’s in good company, isn’t he? We will never quite be free from sin in this life, although we should be sinning less over time, but until the time we enter the kingdom, we remain sinners. Even so, God now sees us as having Jesus’ own righteousness. We are declared righteous in Him and only in Christ can we stand before God

You've misinterpreted Rom. 7.
As there is no sin in Christ, or in His Father, no sinner is in Christ.

According the Word of God, I am free from the penalty of sin.

Better read Matt 7:22-23..."Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

 

[Randy]

We dont know christ did not tell us!

Jn 3:5 cannot enter the kingdom without baptism

Were Abraham, Issac and Jacob baptized into Christ? Yet their noted by the Lord in the resurrection of us all on the last day. One cannot be raised up on the last day apart from the one who raises us up that's for sure.

I believe we do know as an infant is blameless and Jesus judges by His righteousness and when He healed on the sabbath and was accused of breaking Gods command He stated to them "stop judging by mere appearances and make a righteous judgment"

But at the very least you could state they are neither saved nor condemned but their souls will come before the Lord for judgment, and He will make a judgment concerning them.

 

[donadams]

Were Abraham, Issac and Jacob baptized into Christ? Yet their noted by the Lord in the resurrection of us all on the last day. One cannot be raised up on the last day apart from the one who raises us up that's for sure.

I believe we do know as an infant is blameless and Jesus judges by His righteousness and when He healed on the sabbath and was accused of breaking Gods command He stated to them "stop judging by mere appearances and make a righteous judgment"

But at the very least you could state they are neither saved nor condemned but their souls will come before the Lord for judgment, and He will make a judgment concerning them.

174. Baptism is a true Sacrament instituted by Jesus Christ.
175. The materia remota of the Sacrament of Baptism is true and natural water.
176. Baptism confers the grace of justification.
177. Baptism effects the remission of all punishments of sin, both the eternal and the temporal.
178. Even if it be unworthily received, valid Baptism imprints on the soul of the recipient an
indelible spiritual mark, the Baptismal Character, and for this reason, the Sacrament cannot
be repeated.
179. Baptism by water (Baptismus fluminis) is, since the promulgation of the Gospel, necessary
for all men without exception, for salvation.
Mk 16:16

 

[Rodger]

174. Baptism is a true Sacrament instituted by Jesus Christ.
175. The materia remota of the Sacrament of Baptism is true and natural water.
176. Baptism confers the grace of justification.
177. Baptism effects the remission of all punishments of sin, both the eternal and the temporal.
178. Even if it be unworthily received, valid Baptism imprints on the soul of the recipient an
indelible spiritual mark, the Baptismal Character, and for this reason, the Sacrament cannot
be repeated.
179. Baptism by water (Baptismus fluminis) is, since the promulgation of the Gospel, necessary
for all men without exception, for salvation.
Mk 16:16

Catholic false teachings.

Bible teaching....."Believe upon the Lord Jeus and you shall be saved"!