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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Bible Study CALLING ALL BIBLE STUDY ENTHUSIASTS! Come and join us for an indepth study of the Book of Deut.
- Thread starter Chopper
- Start date
Chopper
Member
Absolutely! And isn't that what America is doing now? I guess that history has proven that many nations have been destroyed from within. Many Churches fall to the same wretched sin. People just refuse the first command of Jesus to love one another, what a shame.
Yikes time for a group hug View attachment 4289
Deborah13
Member
Chapter 20
KJV
Deu 20:19 When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe against them: for thou mayest eat of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for the tree of the field is man's life) to employ them in the siege:
Deu 20:20 Only the trees which thou knowest that they be not trees for meat, thou shalt destroy and cut them down; and thou shalt build bulwarks against the city that maketh war with thee, until it be subdued.
I do not mean any disrespect for the Lord by any means, but this admonition seems to be so common sense that it shouldn't need to be said and something like I would say even to one of my grown children.
Parents...:shades
KJV
Deu 20:19 When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe against them: for thou mayest eat of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for the tree of the field is man's life) to employ them in the siege:
Deu 20:20 Only the trees which thou knowest that they be not trees for meat, thou shalt destroy and cut them down; and thou shalt build bulwarks against the city that maketh war with thee, until it be subdued.
I do not mean any disrespect for the Lord by any means, but this admonition seems to be so common sense that it shouldn't need to be said and something like I would say even to one of my grown children.
Parents...:shades
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TOG
Member
It does seem like it should be common sense, but the fact is that common sense isn't all that common. What these verses are saying is basically don't kill fruit (food) trees to make weapons (not food). If we extend that idea to apply to not taking any food plants to make non-food products, then we see that people are doing that very thing today. We make biofuel and alcohol from food crops, just to name two examples. The wood of some fruit and nut trees is used to make furniture or other products. And then we can't figure out why so many people are starving.
The TOG
Chopper
Member
Chapter 21 This Chapter covers five commands of the Almighty.
1. The atonement in the case of an unsolved murder. There had to be atonement for the shedding of innocent blood. This looks forward to the shedding of the Blood of the Messiah. Israel is guilty and will pay the penalty during "Jacob's Trouble" in the last 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation.
2. A female captive could become the wife of one of the men of Israel. Provision was made in case he found some displeasure in her. Perhaps the laws of divorce did not cover a foreign woman.
3. The firstborn rights are protected in the case of the son of the unloved wife. It seems to me that multiple wives would always present problems like this.
4. A rebellious son was stoned to death, for this reason, "So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear....That should discourage any son from being rebellious....Capital punishment is a great deterrent.
5. A hanged man must not be left hanging all night because, in God's sight, it would defile this new land which was precious and a great reward to Israel as promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
1. The atonement in the case of an unsolved murder. There had to be atonement for the shedding of innocent blood. This looks forward to the shedding of the Blood of the Messiah. Israel is guilty and will pay the penalty during "Jacob's Trouble" in the last 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation.
2. A female captive could become the wife of one of the men of Israel. Provision was made in case he found some displeasure in her. Perhaps the laws of divorce did not cover a foreign woman.
3. The firstborn rights are protected in the case of the son of the unloved wife. It seems to me that multiple wives would always present problems like this.
4. A rebellious son was stoned to death, for this reason, "So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear....That should discourage any son from being rebellious....Capital punishment is a great deterrent.
5. A hanged man must not be left hanging all night because, in God's sight, it would defile this new land which was precious and a great reward to Israel as promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Jethro Bodine
Member
I'm of the opinion that this is where Paul gets his counsel to let the unbelieving wife go. Not send her away, but let her go if she so desires.
"...if you are not pleased with her, then you shall let her go wherever she wishes..." (Deuteronomy 21:14 NASB)
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”... (Galatians 3:13 NASB)
When we take Paul's lead on how to interpret the scriptures, seemingly meaningless passages of scripture blossom with spiritual insight.
Chopper
Member
Thank you friend Jethro! Could you help me to understand a little better about my first point, the atonement for the shedding of innocent blood and how that applies to Jesus? I read just a little about that and I was curious how that would be applied.
Chopper
Member
Yes, about all it said was , The land of Jehovah must be kept pure. Israel will have to make this confession in the latter days, and to clear themselves of the blood of Messiah. (Taken from e-Sword "The sword of the Lord. Used be permission from "Good News Publishers".)
Deborah13
Member
Chapter 21
Deu 21:4 And the elders of that city shall bring down the heifer unto a rough valley, which is neither eared nor sown, and shall strike off the heifer's neck there in the valley:
Why this place? Here's what the TSK notes. I found it interesting.
"a rough valley: As the word nachal signifies both a torrent, and the valley or glen through which it flows, nachal aithan may be rendered a rapid torrent. Many torrents in Judea are dry during a great part of the year; when not only their banks but their beds may be ploughed, and yield a crop. Hence there is no impropriety in specifying that such a place should be one that "is neither cared nor sown;" while the circumstance that the elders were to wash their hands over the heifer, whose head had been struck off into the stream, confirms this interpretation. The spot of ground where this sacrifice was made must be uncultivated, because it was considered as a sacrifice for the atonement of murder, and, consequently, would pollute the land."
http://www.biblestudytools.com/concordances/treasury-of-scripture-knowledge/deuteronomy-21-4.html
Deu 21:4 And the elders of that city shall bring down the heifer unto a rough valley, which is neither eared nor sown, and shall strike off the heifer's neck there in the valley:
Why this place? Here's what the TSK notes. I found it interesting.
"a rough valley: As the word nachal signifies both a torrent, and the valley or glen through which it flows, nachal aithan may be rendered a rapid torrent. Many torrents in Judea are dry during a great part of the year; when not only their banks but their beds may be ploughed, and yield a crop. Hence there is no impropriety in specifying that such a place should be one that "is neither cared nor sown;" while the circumstance that the elders were to wash their hands over the heifer, whose head had been struck off into the stream, confirms this interpretation. The spot of ground where this sacrifice was made must be uncultivated, because it was considered as a sacrifice for the atonement of murder, and, consequently, would pollute the land."
http://www.biblestudytools.com/concordances/treasury-of-scripture-knowledge/deuteronomy-21-4.html
A small part of good ol Matt Henry
They were to bring a heifer down into a rough and unoccupied valley, and to kill it there, Deu_21:3, Deu_21:4. This was not a sacrifice (for it was not brought to the altar), but a solemn protestation that thus they would put the murderer to death if they had him in their hands. The heifer must be one that had not drawn in the yoke, to signify (say some) that the murderer was a son of Belial; it must be brought into a rough valley, to signify the horror of the fact, and that the defilement which blood brings upon a land turns it into barrenness. And the Jews say that unless, after this, the murderer was found out, this valley where the heifer was killed was never to be tilled nor sown.
They were to bring a heifer down into a rough and unoccupied valley, and to kill it there, Deu_21:3, Deu_21:4. This was not a sacrifice (for it was not brought to the altar), but a solemn protestation that thus they would put the murderer to death if they had him in their hands. The heifer must be one that had not drawn in the yoke, to signify (say some) that the murderer was a son of Belial; it must be brought into a rough valley, to signify the horror of the fact, and that the defilement which blood brings upon a land turns it into barrenness. And the Jews say that unless, after this, the murderer was found out, this valley where the heifer was killed was never to be tilled nor sown.
Jethro Bodine
Member
I think you understand it quite well. Jesus is both the shedding of innocent blood in the land, and the atonement for the guilt of that innocent blood. How gracious God is to give such comfort of redemption and atonement despite the surety of the guilt of his people and his righteous judgment.
I would adjust one point in your post. IMO, the judgment for what they did to Jesus started in AD70:
"34 “Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.36 Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation." (Matthew 24:34-36 NASB)
Thoughts?
Deborah13
Member
Like this?
Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
Rev 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. [what is the definition of the word 'earth']
Chopper
Member
OK, I hadn't thought of the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70. That's a good point. And thank you for the Matthew 24 quote. That makes sense as well. I appreciate your knowledge Jethro, very much.
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
and we are called children of the most high, not adults of the most high.
we are no better.
the promises of jesus will be the only way man will make it and the church.
TOG
Member
If I'm not mistaken, we're on chapter 23 today (although I think we've skipped chapter 22). The last verse of chapter 23 is interesting.
If you go into your neighbor's standing grain, you may pluck the ears with your hand, but you shall not put a sickle to your neighbor's standing grain. (Deu. 23:24-25 ESV)
What's so interesting about that, you ask?
At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, “Look, your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath.” (Matt. 12:1-2 ESV)
Contrary to what the Pharisees claimed, what Jesus and his disciples were doing is specifically allowed in the Torah, not forbidden. And there's nothing anywhere to indicate that any other rules apply on the Sabbath. It was the Pharisees, not God's Word that claimed that picking a handful of grain and eating it on the spot counted as work and was therefore forbidden on the Sabbath. If we bother to get to know what the Torah actually teaches, as opposed to how people have interpreted it and added to it, we find that Jesus never violated it in any way, nor did he condone his disciples or anyone else doing so.
The TOG