Calling Samuel's Spirit, what's it?

[Butch5]

Samuel's body was dead, but Samuel himself was alive.

Just as Moses body had died, yet Moses appeared with Elijah on the mount of Transfiguration.

Just as Abraham had died, yet God said to Moses from the burning bush that He was the God of Abraham, as Abraham was alive as shown to us by Jesus in His teaching about Abraham's bosom, when he spoke to the rich man and told him that Lazarus was comforted.


JLB

Where does Scripture say only their body died?

 

[Butch5]

Samuel's body was dead, but Samuel himself was alive.

Just as Moses body had died, yet Moses appeared with Elijah on the mount of Transfiguration.

Just as Abraham had died, yet God said to Moses from the burning bush that He was the God of Abraham, as Abraham was alive as shown to us by Jesus in His teaching about Abraham's bosom, when he spoke to the rich man and told him that Lazarus was comforted.


JLB

16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
17 (as it is written, "I have made you a father of many nations ") in the presence of Him whom he believed-- God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;
18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, "So shall your descendants be."
(Rom 4:16-18 NKJ)

 

[agua.]

Samuel's body was dead, but Samuel himself was alive.

Just as Moses body had died, yet Moses appeared with Elijah on the mount of Transfiguration.

Just as Abraham had died, yet God said to Moses from the burning bush that He was the God of Abraham, as Abraham was alive as shown to us by Jesus in His teaching about Abraham's bosom, when he spoke to the rich man and told him that Lazarus was comforted.


JLB

I've already explained this JLB.

Firstly at the Transfiguration Jesus showed Peter and the SoT a vision of the future Kingdom of God and Moses and Elijah weren't really there.

Mat 17:9 KJV And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

Notice 6 days earlier Jesus said

Mat 16:28 KJV Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

The Transfiguration was a preview of this Kingdom where Moses and Elijah will be resurrected and be alive with Jesus in all His Glory.

The "God of the living" is about the resurrection.


Mat 22:31-32 KJV But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, (32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Dead Saints are considered to be alive because they will be resurrected into eternal life.

And the Luke 16 parable a simple message to convict the greedy/showy Jews. Treasures in Heaven and all that.

Samuel was dead.

 

[Deborah13]

I've already explained this JLB.

Firstly at the Transfiguration Jesus showed Peter and the SoT a vision of the future Kingdom of God and Moses and Elijah weren't really there.

Mat 17:9 KJV And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

Notice 6 days earlier Jesus said

Mat 16:28 KJV Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

The Transfiguration was a preview of this Kingdom where Moses and Elijah will be resurrected and be alive with Jesus in all His Glory.

The "God of the living" is about the resurrection.


Mat 22:31-32 KJV But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, (32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Dead Saints are considered to be alive because they will be resurrected into eternal life.

And the Luke 16 parable a simple message to convict the greedy/showy Jews. Treasures in Heaven and all that.

Samuel was dead.

And God couldn't have Samuel appear in a vision and speak to Saul?

 

[Deborah13]

I've already explained this JLB.

Firstly at the Transfiguration Jesus showed Peter and the SoT a vision of the future Kingdom of God and Moses and Elijah weren't really there.

Mat 17:9 KJV And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

Notice 6 days earlier Jesus said

Mat 16:28 KJV Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

The Transfiguration was a preview of this Kingdom where Moses and Elijah will be resurrected and be alive with Jesus in all His Glory.

The "God of the living" is about the resurrection.


Mat 22:31-32 KJV But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, (32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Dead Saints are considered to be alive because they will be resurrected into eternal life.

And the Luke 16 parable a simple message to convict the greedy/showy Jews. Treasures in Heaven and all that.

Samuel was dead.

Why couldn't God have Samuel appear in a vision and speak to Saul?
The whole book of Rev. is a vision and lots of talking going on. :shades

 

[agua.]

Why couldn't God have Samuel appear in a vision and speak to Saul?
The whole book of Rev. is a vision and lots of talking going on. :shades

Yeah good one Deb I'm going to think on this . Like you the stumbler for me is that if it's an evil spirit ( unless sent by Yahweh which isn't unprecedented ) how did it foresee the future accurately.

 

[Deborah13]

Yeah good one Deb I'm going to think on this . Like you the stumbler for me is that if it's an evil spirit ( unless sent by Yahweh which isn't unprecedented ) how did it foresee the future accurately.

I don't believe evil spirits, even satan can know the future. At least it doesn't seem that way in the Bible.
satan didn't know what would happen at the cross. And the demons that asked to be put into the swine didn't know the pigs would run over the cliff into the sea.

 

[agua.]

I don't believe evil spirits, even satan can know the future. At least it doesn't seem that way in the Bible.
satan didn't know what would happen at the cross. And the demons that asked to be put into the swine didn't know the pigs would run over the cliff into the sea.

Yeah I agree but Yahweh has sent evil spirits to do His will as per 1Kings22:22. I don't think it's out of the question Yahweh sent an evil spirit in the form of Samuel to give Saul the bad news especially because Saul was being so disobedient and self absorbed ( he was previously denied Samuel's consultation when he was alive ) and looking for consolation. It might sound hair brained but hey it's not out of the question imo :D like "here Saul here's what you wanted you have disobeyed me yet again now know your fate !"

 

[jonahmano]

Here is a good website you might want to look at as it explains exactly what you are searching for.

http://www.compellingtruth.org/christian-demon-possessed.html

This is more interesting than which you suggested

http://paradoxbrown.com/demonsnephilim.htm/

 

[for_his_glory]

This is more interesting than which you suggested

http://paradoxbrown.com/demonsnephilim.htm/

To long to read it all right now so I will read it later. Thank you.

 

[Deborah13]

Yeah I agree but Yahweh has sent evil spirits to do His will as per 1Kings22:22. I don't think it's out of the question Yahweh sent an evil spirit in the form of Samuel to give Saul the bad news especially because Saul was being so disobedient and self absorbed ( he was previously denied Samuel's consultation when he was alive ) and looking for consolation. It might sound hair brained but hey it's not out of the question imo :biggrin like "here Saul here's what you wanted you have disobeyed me yet again now know your fate !"

Well, that is true to such as death at the first passover? When are you thinking of?
Hmm...I shall read it again. I don't remember Saul being denied Samuel's aid.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yeah good one Deb I'm going to think on this . Like you the stumbler for me is that if it's an evil spirit ( unless sent by Yahweh which isn't unprecedented ) how did it foresee the future accurately.

You might have missed this so will repeat it again. In 1Samuel Chapter 15 Samuel, before his death, had already told Saul about Saul's death, destruction and Gods rejection. Satan was well aware of what Samuel told Saul and used this in the conversation between the familiar spirit and Saul.

 

[for_his_glory]

No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
John 3:13

JLB

Where does it say in scripture that Jesus ascended to heaven before he was resurrected? Where in scripture does it say Paul was caught up to the third heaven?

 

[for_his_glory]

No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

There is no future reference in this scripture.

Both Paul and John were caught up to heaven after Jesus was Resurrected.

The book of Revelation shows others in heaven awaiting to return to earth with Jesus at the Second Coming.

To be absent from the body if to be present with thd Lord.

JLB

The future reference was when Jesus used Moses in vs. 14 as an example to explain to Nicodemus that he too had to ascend to the Father in order for all who will believe in him will have eternal life.
Nicodemus, like the disciples, knew Jesus as a teacher/prophet, but did not understand his fill mission. No one fully understood the earthly things Jesus was teaching and could never understand the Spiritual things of Jesus. Jesus was trying to explain to Nicodemus that as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness that he also had to be lifted up (ascend) to the Father that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life with the Father. It would not be until Jesus ascended to the Father and then came back to earth for forty days teaching giving that of the Holy Spirit that now their Spiritual eyes and ears were opened to fully understand that of what Jesus taught them.

John 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?the disciples
John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
John 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

These two verses are only saying it would be better to be present with the Lord than to be in home in the body. Paul, like all of us would rather be with Jesus right now, but have to remain in this fleshly body until Jesus returns.
2Co_5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co_5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

I have to go, but will return and explain that of Revelation.

 

[JLB]

The future reference was when Jesus used Moses in vs. 14 as an example to explain to Nicodemus that he too had to ascend to the Father in order for all who will believe in him will have eternal life.
Nicodemus, like the disciples, knew Jesus as a teacher/prophet, but did not understand his fill mission. No one fully understood the earthly things Jesus was teaching and could never understand the Spiritual things of Jesus. Jesus was trying to explain to Nicodemus that as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness that he also had to be lifted up (ascend) to the Father that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life with the Father. It would not be until Jesus ascended to the Father and then came back to earth for forty days teaching giving that of the Holy Spirit that now their Spiritual eyes and ears were opened to fully understand that of what Jesus taught them.

John 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?the disciples
John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
John 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

These two verses are only saying it would be better to be present with the Lord than to be in home in the body. Paul, like all of us would rather be with Jesus right now, but have to remain in this fleshly body until Jesus returns.
2Co_5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co_5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

I have to go, but will return and explain that of Revelation.

... and to be present with the Lord.

When a child of God dies, they are present with The Lord.

Moses, Elijah and Abraham had died, that is to say their body died, but they continued to live.

Man is spirit soul and body.

JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

... and to be present with the Lord.

When a child of God dies, they are present with The Lord.

Moses, Elijah and Abraham had died, that is to say their body died, but they continued to live.

Man is spirit soul and body.

JLB

The soul and the spirit are connected, but separable. The soul is the essence of humanity’s being as it is who we are in character. The spirit is the aspect of humanity that connects with God as in God breathing life into us. When this physical body dies it returns to the dust of the ground and decomposes as our spirit that connects to God goes back to him. When Jesus returns we are resurrected with bodies that are spiritual, imperishable, and raised in glory and power, but yet no one knows what we will look like other than we will be like him.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

 

[JLB]

The soul and the spirit are connected, but separable. The soul is the essence of humanity’s being as it is who we are in character. The spirit is the aspect of humanity that connects with God as in God breathing life into us. When this physical body dies it returns to the dust of the ground and decomposes as our spirit that connects to God goes back to him. When Jesus returns we are resurrected with bodies that are spiritual, imperishable, and raised in glory and power, but yet no one knows what we will look like other than we will be like him.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

The soul and the spirit are connected, but separable.

I can agree with this statement.

There are some who say man has no spirit of his own.

JLB

 

[agua.]

You might have missed this so will repeat it again. In 1Samuel Chapter 15 Samuel, before his death, had already told Saul about Saul's death, destruction and Gods rejection. Satan was well aware of what Samuel told Saul and used this in the conversation between the familiar spirit and Saul.

For His Glory Samuel only told Saul that he would be removed as King and not about his death in 1Samuel 15 I think. Can you show me where Samuel mentioned Saul's death ?

 

[agua.]

Well, that is true to such as death at the first passover? When are you thinking of?
Hmm...I shall read it again. I don't remember Saul being denied Samuel's aid.

I don't get the passover reference Deb. Oh and I made a mistake and mixed up the time when Samuel turned away from Saul ( after telling him he would lose the throne ) and when Saul inquired of Yahweh.

1Sa 15:35 KJV And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.

1Sa 28:6 KJV And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

Sorry about that my bad. :/ So I should alter my premise to say this.

I don't think it's out of the question Yahweh sent an evil spirit in the form of Samuel to give Saul the bad news especially because Saul was being so disobedient and self absorbed ( Samuel removed himself from Saul when he was alive and Saul was denied Yahweh's answers previously ) and looking for consolation. It might sound hair brained but hey it's not out of the question imo :biggrin like "here Saul here's what you wanted you have disobeyed me yet again now know your fate !"

How's that ? ( thanks for the correction ! )

 

[for_his_glory]

For His Glory Samuel only told Saul that he would be removed as King and not about his death in 1Samuel 15 I think. Can you show me where Samuel mentioned Saul's death ?

Samuel told Saul since he rejected the word of God, God has now rejected Saul from being king. 1Samuel 15:23 Samuel also mentions about rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and stubbornness as being iniquity and idolatry as Saul's rebellion would lead to his death as those who practiced witchcraft were also put to death, Lev 20:6; 27.