Calling Samuel's Spirit, what's it?

[for_his_glory]

Here is something that is being overlooked as this could have not been Samuel, but only that of the familiar spirit looking like Samuel. Jesus said the dead can not pass from the grave to come and talk to people. Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

I agree with you agua about the transfiguration as it was only a vision as John 3:13 says there is no one other than Jesus that has ever ascended into heaven. Mose, Elijah, Abraham etc. etc. are all asleep in the ground until the coming of the Lord. John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

 

[JLB]

Here is something that is being overlooked as this could have not been Samuel, but only that of the familiar spirit looking like Samuel. Jesus said the dead can not pass from the grave to come and talk to people. Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

I agree with you agua about the transfiguration as it was only a vision as John 3:13 says there is no one other than Jesus that has ever ascended into heaven. Mose, Elijah, Abraham etc. etc. are all asleep in the ground until the coming of the Lord. John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Samuel was clearly not dead.

 

[JLB]

Here is something that is being overlooked as this could have not been Samuel, but only that of the familiar spirit looking like Samuel. Jesus said the dead can not pass from the grave to come and talk to people. Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

I agree with you agua about the transfiguration as it was only a vision as John 3:13 says there is no one other than Jesus that has ever ascended into heaven. Mose, Elijah, Abraham etc. etc. are all asleep in the ground until the coming of the Lord. John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Jesus was the only one at the time before His resurrection that ascended to heaven.

Since then, both Paul and John were caught up to heaven.

 

[Butch5]

Morrow means next day as scripture does say the next day as being in to morrow that the Philistines attacked Israel and wounded Saul and it was the same day of battle that Saul was wounded and killed himself by falling on a sword

1Sa 28:19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
1Sa 31:1 Now the Philistines fought against Israel: and the men of Israel fled from before the Philistines, and fell down slain in mount Gilboa.
1Sa 31:2 And the Philistines followed hard upon Saul and upon his sons; and the Philistines slew Jonathan, and Abinadab, and Malchishua, Saul's sons.
1Sa 31:3 And the battle went sore against Saul, and the archers hit him; and he was sore wounded of the archers.
1Sa 31:4 Then said Saul unto his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.
1Sa 31:5 And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead, he fell likewise upon his sword, and died with him.
1Sa 31:6 So Saul died, and his three sons, and his armourbearer, and all his men, that same day together.

I don't have the chronology handy but I'll look it up. From what I remember both Israel and the Philistines both moved their armies before the battle and it would take some time to move that many thousands of men

 

[Butch5]

This is what I was addressing. I got the impression that you were using this verse as evidence that it was for sure a familiar spirit and not Samuel. I don't think it does for the reasons that I gave.

The passage says that Saul sought to inquire of a familiar spirit. What proves it wasn't Samuel is Genesis 2:7. However, the thing is, this passage doesn't mention the words spirit or soul, yet that is what it was supposed to have been. If it wasn't Samuel's spirit (which I don't believe he had), and it wasn't Samuel's soul, and it wasn't Samuel's body, what was it?

 

[agua.]

Samuel was clearly not dead.

Yeah Samuel was dead.

1Sa 25:1 KJV And Samuel died; and all the Israelites were gathered together, and lamented him, and buried him in his house at Ramah. And David arose, and went down to the wilderness of Paran.

 

[Sinthesis]

Yeah Samuel was dead.

1Sa 25:1 KJV And Samuel died; and all the Israelites were gathered together, and lamented him, and buried him in his house at Ramah. And David arose, and went down to the wilderness of Paran.

Then I guess 1Sa 25:2 KJV was written by a... Ghost writer?

 

[agua.]

Then I guess 1Sa 25:2 KJV was written by a... Ghost writer?

:D Yeah

( Gad or Nathan I think )

 

[jonahmano]

Was googling with subject familiar spirits and demons and evil spirits and I didn't get one convincing thoughts. It's still debatable when it is said consulting a medium and bringing upon familiar spirit. Can we mean that the medium can bring forth the Spirit of dead man? When we say when a familiar spirit of Samuel appeared to the woman then will it mean that each person in the world have a familiar spirit? That's not convincing either. I'm more tend to convinced that it's an evil spirit calling another evil spirit. In the case of Elijah after having brought forth the fire from heaven to consume the sacrifice, he ran away hiding because of Jezebel and it's nothing but the Spirit of fear in him. So prophets didn't have any evil spirits in them is debetable

 

[JLB]

Yeah Samuel was dead.

1Sa 25:1 KJV And Samuel died; and all the Israelites were gathered together, and lamented him, and buried him in his house at Ramah. And David arose, and went down to the wilderness of Paran.

Samuel's body was dead, but Samuel himself was alive.

Just as Moses body had died, yet Moses appeared with Elijah on the mount of Transfiguration.

Just as Abraham had died, yet God said to Moses from the burning bush that He was the God of Abraham, as Abraham was alive as shown to us by Jesus in His teaching about Abraham's bosom, when he spoke to the rich man and told him that Lazarus was comforted.


JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Jesus was the only one at the time before His resurrection that ascended to heaven.

Since then, both Paul and John were caught up to heaven.

Where does it say in scripture that Jesus ascended to heaven before he was resurrected?

Paul said he knew a man, not Paul himself, but he didn't know if this man was in our out of his body. This man was in the spirit just as John was in the spirit when God gave him revelations. If you believe they were actually in the third heaven then you do not believe what Jesus said in John 3:13.


2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

 

[for_his_glory]

Samuel was clearly not dead.

In 1Samuel Chapter 15 Samuel, before his death, had already told Saul about Saul's death, destruction and Gods rejection. Satan was well aware of what Samuel told Saul and used this in the conversation between the familiar spirit and Saul.

FYI, Paradise can mean the righteous side as in when one dies that is in Christ that have died in Gods righteousness found in them as John 3:13 says no one that has died is in heaven yet.

 

[for_his_glory]

Then I guess 1Sa 25:2 KJV was written by a... Ghost writer?

1Samuel 25:1 makes it clear that Samuel did not write the 2 books of Samuel. Samuel did write a book and possibly wrote the first part,1Samuel 10:25, but only wrote of those things up to the time of his death. It could have been a collaboration of many scholars using the writings of Samuel to write 1st and 2nd Samuel.

 

[for_his_glory]

Was googling with subject familiar spirits and demons and evil spirits and I didn't get one convincing thoughts. It's still debatable when it is said consulting a medium and bringing upon familiar spirit. Can we mean that the medium can bring forth the Spirit of dead man? When we say when a familiar spirit of Samuel appeared to the woman then will it mean that each person in the world have a familiar spirit? That's not convincing either. I'm more tend to convinced that it's an evil spirit calling another evil spirit. In the case of Elijah after having brought forth the fire from heaven to consume the sacrifice, he ran away hiding because of Jezebel and it's nothing but the Spirit of fear in him. So prophets didn't have any evil spirits in them is debetable

Here is a good website you might want to look at as it explains exactly what you are searching for.

http://www.compellingtruth.org/christian-demon-possessed.html

 

[JLB]

Where does it say in scripture that Jesus ascended to heaven before he was resurrected?

Paul said he knew a man, not Paul himself, but he didn't know if this man was in our out of his body. This man was in the spirit just as John was in the spirit when God gave him revelations. If you believe they were actually in the third heaven then you do not believe what Jesus said in John 3:13.


2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
John 3:13


JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Samuel's body was dead, but Samuel himself was alive.

Just as Moses body had died, yet Moses appeared with Elijah on the mount of Transfiguration.

Just as Abraham had died, yet God said to Moses from the burning bush that He was the God of Abraham, as Abraham was alive as shown to us by Jesus in His teaching about Abraham's bosom, when he spoke to the rich man and told him that Lazarus was comforted.


JLB

How can a person be dead buried in the ground, but yet be alive as when we die our breath goes back to God who gave it and is preserved until the day of judgement.

The transfiguration was only that of a vision that Peter, James and John saw.

Matthew 17:5 A bright cloud overshadowed Peter, James and John that they could not see God in His full glory, just as Moses had to hide his face from Gods fullness as no one can see God and live. God spoke out from the cloud to Peter, James and John and said this is my beloved son (Jesus) in whom I am well pleased and they needed to hear what Jesus spoke to them. Moses and Elijah were only a vision of two other prophets that God was well pleased in as God used them in a vision as an example of Gods prophets of the past as Jesus also being a prophet from God and also the very son of God.

In vs. 2 it was only Jesus that was transfigured as this is why his face did shine as the sun and his raiment was white as light because Jesus was in the full glory of the Father.

Matthew 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

 

[for_his_glory]

No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
John 3:13

JLB

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Jesus was that light that the darkness of man could not comprehend. Jesus came down from heaven as the word made flesh and after his death he ascended back up to heaven.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he (Jesus) that came down from heaven, (word made flesh to walk amongst us) even the Son of man which is in heaven. (now in heaven sitting at the right hand of the Father)

 

[JLB]

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Jesus was that light that the darkness of man could not comprehend. Jesus came down from heaven as the word made flesh and after his death he ascended back up to heaven.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he (Jesus) that came
down from heaven, (word made flesh to walk amongst us) even the Son of man which is in heaven. (now in heaven sitting at the right hand of the Father)

Jesus stated That He had ascended to heaven. His words that stated this were before he was crucified.


JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Jesus stated That He had ascended to heaven. His words that stated this were before he was crucified.


JLB

John 3:13 Jesus is speaking about how he ascended to heaven as a future event after the cross to show Nicodemus that he had to first go back to the Father so the world could believe in him through his death and resurrection that he truly was the Son of God. Jesus gave example of this in vs.14,15.

 

[JLB]

John 3:13 Jesus is speaking about how he ascended to heaven as a future event after the cross to show Nicodemus that he had to first go back to the Father so the world could believe in him through his death and resurrection that he truly was the Son of God. Jesus gave example of this in vs.14,15.

No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

There is no future reference in this scripture.

Both Paul and John were caught up to heaven after Jesus was Resurrected.

The book of Revelation shows others in heaven awaiting to return to earth with Jesus at the Second Coming.

To be absent from the body if to be present with thd Lord.

JLB