Calling Samuel's Spirit, what's it?

[Butch5]

Yes

What do you base that on? Is it that the Bible uses the name Samuel? 1 Chron.19 says that Saul inquired of a demon.

13 And Saul dieth because of his trespass that he trespassed against Jehovah, against the word of Jehovah that he kept not, and also for asking at a familiar spirit -- to inquire, -- (1Ch 10:13 YLT)

 

[Deborah13]

What do you base that on? Is it that the Bible uses the name Samuel? 1 Chron.19 says that Saul inquired of a demon.

13 And Saul dieth because of his trespass that he trespassed against Jehovah, against the word of Jehovah that he kept not, and also for asking at a familiar spirit -- to inquire, -- (1Ch 10:13 YLT)

Yes that is what Saul did. He went to ask of a familiar spirit.....That doesn't mean that's what he got.
It was a sin to make the inquiry.
If I were to inquire of a ouija board (familiar spirit) or tarot cards, even if it didn't work, it would be sin.

 

[Butch5]

Yes that is what Saul did. He went to ask of a familiar spirit.....That doesn't mean that's what he got.
It was a sin to make the inquiry.
If I were to inquire of a ouija board (familiar spirit) or tarot cards, even if it didn't work, it would be sin.

I'm not following you. Are you saying there was no familiar spirit involved?

 

[Deborah13]

I'm not following you. Are you saying there was no familiar spirit involved?

No, although there might not have been.

But my point was that it wouldn't matter if there was or wasn't, if Saul thought there was and he inquired then he sinned by inquiring at all.
Chronicles just says he inquired which was sin.

 

[Butch5]

No, although there might not have been.

But my point was that it wouldn't matter if there was or wasn't, if Saul thought there was and he inquired then he sinned by inquiring at all.
Chronicles just says he inquired which was sin.

I agree, but I think the issue that they are dealing with is whether there was a demon or if Samuel somehow was actually there.

 

[Deborah13]

I agree, but I think the issue that they are dealing with is whether there was a demon or if Samuel somehow was actually there.

What do you base that on? Is it that the Bible uses the name Samuel? 1 Chron.19 says that Saul inquired of a demon.

13 And Saul dieth because of his trespass that he trespassed against Jehovah, against the word of Jehovah that he kept not, and also for asking at a familiar spirit -- to inquire, -- (1Ch 10:13 YLT)

This is what I was addressing. I got the impression that you were using this verse as evidence that it was for sure a familiar spirit and not Samuel. I don't think it does for the reasons that I gave.

 

[agua.]

Hi Agua,

As I understand it Saul didn't die the next day but rather 2 or 3 days later.

Yes that's possible Butch ( it's unclear how long after the event he died though ) but to morrow doesn't necessarily mean the next day it may also mean the days following.

 

[for_his_glory]

We know that in witchcraft, witches or the witch doctors call the spirit of a dead person and get all the details of the dead person and that spirit is an evil spirit. So your question is how the evil spirit knew the future. Can't it be presumed this way - Prophet Samuel knew the future of King Saul and the evil spirit which was residing in Samuel was knowing future of Samuel and the same evil spirit spelled out King Saul's destiny.

First it was a familiar spirit and not an evil spirit as a familiar spirit only takes on the form of a person. Samuel could not know Saul's future as only God knows our past, present and future. An evil spirit can not reside within a dead body as the body no longer has a soul as when we die our soul/breath goes back to God until the day of judgement. The spirit world knows that of God, but not the destiny of humans. These evil spirits are actually fallen angels that fell with Satan as he uses them in his attempts to draw man from God by trying to steal their faith as that is all Satan can try to do is to still our faith. When Saul told this familiar spirit, remember Saul never saw it as he was bowed down to the ground and never looked up, that God had departed from him Saul's only destiny now would be that of being overtaken by the enemy and killed as Saul never repented of his disobedience to God and this is why the familiar spirit told Saul what was going to happen to him.

 

[jonahmano]

First it was a familiar spirit and not an evil spirit as a familiar spirit only takes on the form of a person. Samuel could not know Saul's future as only God knows our past, present and future. An evil spirit can not reside within a dead body as the body no longer has a soul as when we die our soul/breath goes back to God until the day of judgement. The spirit world knows that of God, but not the destiny of humans. These evil spirits are actually fallen angels that fell with Satan as he uses them in his attempts to draw man from God by trying to steal their faith as that is all Satan can try to do is to still our faith. When Saul told this familiar spirit, remember Saul never saw it as he was bowed down to the ground and never looked up, that God had departed from him Saul's only destiny now would be that of being overtaken by the enemy and killed as Saul never repented of his disobedience to God and this is why the familiar spirit told Saul what was going to happen to him.

Can you explain me difference between familiar spirits and evil spirits and demons. Can demons and the evil spirits be the same? Anyways want to know more about familiar spirit

 

[JLB]

Yes that's possible Butch ( it's unclear how long after the event he died though ) but to morrow doesn't necessarily mean the next day it may also mean the days following.

The is no scripture that suggests this event to place later than the next day.

He just needs to make up something to justify his "theory".


JLB

 

[agua.]

The is no scripture that suggests this event to place later than the next day.

He just needs to make up something to justify his "theory".


JLB

Kinda like Jesus preaching to dead people while in the Tomb ?

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm not trying to go off topic, but just to explain the differences you asked for.

A familiar spirit is a spirit that appears familiar to the living as in looks, sound or smells. In Leviticus 19:31; 20:6; 27 and Deuteronomy 18:9-14 the bible refers to mediums and familiar spirits and forbids being involved with them because it is an abomination to the Lord.
Jesus said that no one can come back from the dead in Luke 16:26. It was this familiar spirit that looked like and spoke like Samuel.

There is no difference between familiar spirits, demons or evil spirits as they are all fallen angels that fell with Satan from the throne room of God as Satan controls and uses them for his evil purposes in trying to steal the faith of a believer of God and to deceive even the very elect of God if it were possible, Matthew 24:24.

Angels are created spirits that have no form, but can take on the form of anything for that of Gods purpose, or those fallen ones for Satan's purpose.

 

[Deborah13]

I'm not trying to go off topic, but just to explain the differences you asked for.

A familiar spirit is a spirit that appears familiar to the living as in looks, sound or smells. In Leviticus 19:31; 20:6; 27 and Deuteronomy 18:9-14 the bible refers to mediums and familiar spirits and forbids being involved with them because it is an abomination to the Lord.
Jesus said that no one can come back from the dead in Luke 16:26. It was this familiar spirit that looked like and spoke like Samuel.

There is no difference between familiar spirits, demons or evil spirits as they are all fallen angels that fell with Satan from the throne room of God as Satan controls and uses them for his evil purposes in trying to steal the faith of a believer of God and to deceive even the very elect of God if it were possible, Matthew 24:24.

Angels are created spirits that have no form, but can take on the form of anything for that of Gods purpose, or those fallen ones for Satan's purpose.

What would be the difference between God using Samuel to speak to Saul and Moses' appearing on the Mt of transfiguration? Both had died.

 

[JLB]

Kinda like Jesus preaching to dead people while in the Tomb ?

He preached tithe spirits in Prison.

Also, I would not call Abraham "dead", as God is the God of the living and not the dead. Jesus taught this clearly in Luke 16.

Was Abraham portrayed as being dead down in the earth with Lazarus and the rich man?

JLB

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

yes, and they did not 'return from the dead' to live on earth again, yes, but yes from the grave, probably not in body btw but check... , all in accord with all of God's Word.
there's no reason to think it wasn't samuel, or moses, or elijah at the times Scripture says clearly it was.

 

[agua.]

He preached tithe spirits in Prison.

Also, I would not call Abraham "dead", as God is the God of the living and not the dead. Jesus taught this clearly in Luke 16.

Was Abraham portrayed as being dead down in the earth with Lazarus and the rich man?

JLB

Being the God of the living is about the resurrection JLB I think you know this.

Luk 20:36-38 KJV Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. (37) Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. (38) For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Saints are considered alive even in the grave because of the resurrection to life.

Luke 16 is a parable as you've already been shown.

yes, and they did not 'return from the dead' to live on earth again, yes, but yes from the grave, probably not in body btw but check... , all in accord with all of God's Word.
there's no reason to think it wasn't samuel, or moses, or elijah at the times Scripture says clearly it was.

Mat 17:2-3 KJV And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. (3) And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Mat 17:9 KJV And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

The transfiguration was a vision ( picture ) of the Kingdom of God in which the Saints will be very much alive with Jesus in all His Glory.

 

[Deborah13]

Being the God of the living is about the resurrection JLB I think you know this.

Luk 20:36-38 KJV Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. (37) Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. (38) For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Saints are considered alive even in the grave because of the resurrection to life.

Luke 16 is a parable as you've already been shown.



Mat 17:2-3 KJV And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. (3) And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Mat 17:9 KJV And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

The transfiguration was a vision ( picture ) of the Kingdom of God in which the Saints will be very much alive with Jesus in all His Glory.

So how is that so different than if God used Samuel to speak to Saul? It's not as if Samuel came back with a physical body and walked on the earth with Saul.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi Agua,

As I understand it Saul didn't die the next day but rather 2 or 3 days later.

Morrow means next day as scripture does say the next day as being in to morrow that the Philistines attacked Israel and wounded Saul and it was the same day of battle that Saul was wounded and killed himself by falling on a sword

1Sa 28:19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
1Sa 31:1 Now the Philistines fought against Israel: and the men of Israel fled from before the Philistines, and fell down slain in mount Gilboa.
1Sa 31:2 And the Philistines followed hard upon Saul and upon his sons; and the Philistines slew Jonathan, and Abinadab, and Malchishua, Saul's sons.
1Sa 31:3 And the battle went sore against Saul, and the archers hit him; and he was sore wounded of the archers.
1Sa 31:4 Then said Saul unto his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.
1Sa 31:5 And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead, he fell likewise upon his sword, and died with him.
1Sa 31:6 So Saul died, and his three sons, and his armourbearer, and all his men, that same day together.

 

[agua.]

So how is that so different than if God used Samuel to speak to Saul? It's not as if Samuel came back with a physical body and walked on the earth with Saul.

Samuel isn't presented in a vision. At the transfiguration Jesus presented a vision ( future picture of the Kingdom ) which means Peter and the SoT didn't see the physical Elijah and Moses etc. I suppose we can use Rev as example of the presentation of visions. Samuel ( whatever he was ) was present.

 

[agua.]

Morrow means next day as scripture does say the next day as being in to morrow that the Philistines attacked Israel and wounded Saul and it was the same day of battle that Saul was wounded and killed himself by falling on a sword

1Sa 28:19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
1Sa 31:1 Now the Philistines fought against Israel: and the men of Israel fled from before the Philistines, and fell down slain in mount Gilboa.
1Sa 31:2 And the Philistines followed hard upon Saul and upon his sons; and the Philistines slew Jonathan, and Abinadab, and Malchishua, Saul's sons.
1Sa 31:3 And the battle went sore against Saul, and the archers hit him; and he was sore wounded of the archers.
1Sa 31:4 Then said Saul unto his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.
1Sa 31:5 And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead, he fell likewise upon his sword, and died with him.
1Sa 31:6 So Saul died, and his three sons, and his armourbearer, and all his men, that same day together.

Yeah I gotta agree with you there.