Calling Samuel's Spirit, what's it?

[JLB]

Hi JLB,

It doesn't matter what English word a translators used, the Hebrew text uses "elohiym" so and mistranslation in English doesn't change that. The Septuagint also says "gods".

The passage says that Saul perceived that it was Samuel. Saul didn't see anything the woman did. Saul perceived from what the woman said that it was Samuel, of course that's what Saul wanted to see. The book is a history of the kings of Israel and is recorded from that position so if Saul perceived that he was speaking with Samuel then it's going to be recorded that way.

If you read Gen 19 you'll see that two angels appeared to Lot and they are called men in the Scriptures. Are they men or are they angels, or are the called men because that is how they appeared to the people?

Elohym - God or gods


To the witch at Endor, Samuel appeared as such, which is why the scripture says of her - When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, "Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!"


She cried out in a loud voice because she was SURPRISED at what she saw.

I'm sure she had seen many "things" during her days of seances, but nothing it seemed had prepared her for what she saw that day, when the king of Israel asked her to call up Samuel.

No wonder she used that Term for God.


JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Probably the most presumption I have read in one post on this forum.

You disregard what the scripture says and interject what you "presume" in its place.

JLB

So if everyone doesn't agree with you we are disregarding what scripture says, but yet you believe hell is actually down under the ground of this earth and Jesus actually went under the ground...............hmm!!!
Sorry you are not opened to discuss with any of us, but would rather put us down for what we believe the word is saying. You need to read the whole and not just pick and choose what scripture you want to use as the whole of Gods word paints the whole picture.

 

[JLB]

So if everyone doesn't agree with you we are disregarding what scripture says, but yet you believe hell is actually down under the ground of this earth and Jesus actually went under the ground...............hmm!!!
Sorry you are not opened to discuss with any of us, but would rather put us down for what we believe the word is saying. You need to read the whole and not just pick and choose what scripture you want to use as the whole of Gods word paints the whole picture.

No sir.

When you choose to remove what the scripture actually says, such as "Samuel said", and replace it with what you say, such as "the demon said", the you are guilty of PRESUMPTION.

The exact same sin that Saul himself was guilty of that caused God to depart from him.

For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and presumption is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, he has also rejected you from being king." 1 Samuel 15:23

you believe hell is actually down under the ground of this earth and Jesus actually went under the ground...............hmm!!!

The heart of the earth is the phrase that Jesus used, and the heart of the earth is the phrase that I used.

Jesus descended down into the heart of the earth, where both hell and Abraham's Bosom were located at the time He walked this earth in the flesh.

Again, read what the scripture says -

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matthew 12:40

and again

(Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? Ephesians 4:9


What does the lower parts of the Earth mean to you, Brother?


JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

No sir.

When you choose to remove what the scripture actually says, such as "Samuel said", and replace it with what you say, such as "the demon said", the you are guilty of PRESUMPTION.

The exact same sin that Saul himself was guilty of that caused God to depart from him.

For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and presumption is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, he has also rejected you from being king." 1 Samuel 15:23




The heart of the earth is the phrase that Jesus used, and the heart of the earth is the phrase that I used.

Jesus descended down into the heart of the earth, where both hell and Abraham's Bosom were located at the time He walked this earth in the flesh.

Again, read what the scripture says -

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matthew 12:40

and again

(Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? Ephesians 4:9


What does the lower parts of the Earth mean to you, Brother?


JLB

First of all I am a sister, not a brother.

I have removed nothing from scripture, but only have given what I believe the scripture says just as you have. Just because we do not agree with each other gives no cause to demean one another. We are ever learning and that is why we discuss the scriptures as none of us could ever exhaust the word of God.

Matthew 12:40 the heart of the earth is the grave. Hades is described as the grave nothing more, nothing less. The lower parts of the earth means the grave as described in Ezekiel 32:24; Acts 2:31; Ephesians 4:9; 1Peter 4:6.

In Luke 26:42, 43 Jesus told the thief he would be with Jesus in paradise that day just as all of us will be with Jesus in paradise that day we repented and ask Jesus to be our Lord and Savior, but many of us like the repented thief will be laying in the grave waiting for that day to come.

Ephesians 4:9 the lower parts of the earth was the grave where Jesus was laid until He ascended to the Father on the third day.

 

[agua.]

No sir.

When you choose to remove what the scripture actually says, such as "Samuel said", and replace it with what you say, such as "the demon said", the you are guilty of PRESUMPTION.

The exact same sin that Saul himself was guilty of that caused God to depart from him.

For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and presumption is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, he has also rejected you from being king." 1 Samuel 15:23




The heart of the earth is the phrase that Jesus used, and the heart of the earth is the phrase that I used.

Jesus descended down into the heart of the earth, where both hell and Abraham's Bosom were located at the time He walked this earth in the flesh.

Again, read what the scripture says -

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matthew 12:40

and again

(Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? Ephesians 4:9


What does the lower parts of the Earth mean to you, Brother?


JLB

What does the lower parts of the Earth mean to you, Brother?

I'm a Brother :D It means the grave imo.

 

[JCitoL]

We see in 1 Samuel 28. Saul going to a woman with familiar spirit to call the Spirit of dead Prophet Samuel. How can a woman evil spirit call Prophet's Spirit. Can we mean that there was an evil spirit residing in Saul?

I have logic to counter this. We don't see anywhere in old testament, men of God casting out demons. The ministry of deliverance was started by Jesus Christ. So the Spirit of Samuel which came to the woman and Saul was an evil spirit

this happened in the time before the New Testament when the devil had an inner/domestic power whereby it was able to appear as a part of God, that is why to inquire of a woman having a familiar spirit was as admissible then, and yet see how it was as a curse for Saul and his sons, also see how the woman was scared, because the power of the Holy God worked in her

Blessings

 

[JLB]

First of all I am a sister, not a brother.

I have removed nothing from scripture, but only have given what I believe the scripture says just as you have. Just because we do not agree with each other gives no cause to demean one another. We are ever learning and that is why we discuss the scriptures as none of us could ever exhaust the word of God.

Matthew 12:40 the heart of the earth is the grave. Hades is described as the grave nothing more, nothing less. The lower parts of the earth means the grave as described in Ezekiel 32:24; Acts 2:31; Ephesians 4:9; 1Peter 4:6.

In Luke 26:42, 43 Jesus told the thief he would be with Jesus in paradise that day just as all of us will be with Jesus in paradise that day we repented and ask Jesus to be our Lord and Savior, but many of us like the repented thief will be laying in the grave waiting for that day to come.

Ephesians 4:9 the lower parts of the earth was the grave where Jesus was laid until He ascended to the Father on the third day.

When did He descend down to the lower parts of the earth, when He was alive or after He was dead?

 

[JLB]

I'm a Brother :biggrin It means the grave imo.

You believe the heart of the earth or the lower parts of the earth is a reference to the Tomb He was in?

How about the belly of a great fish, down in the middle of the fish?

Does that mean in the fishes mouth or it's belly?


JLB

 

[JLB]

First of all I am a sister, not a brother.

I have removed nothing from scripture, but only have given what I believe the scripture says just as you have. Just because we do not agree with each other gives no cause to demean one another. We are ever learning and that is why we discuss the scriptures as none of us could ever exhaust the word of God.

Matthew 12:40 the heart of the earth is the grave. Hades is described as the grave nothing more, nothing less. The lower parts of the earth means the grave as described in Ezekiel 32:24; Acts 2:31; Ephesians 4:9; 1Peter 4:6.

In Luke 26:42, 43 Jesus told the thief he would be with Jesus in paradise that day just as all of us will be with Jesus in paradise that day we repented and ask Jesus to be our Lord and Savior, but many of us like the repented thief will be laying in the grave waiting for that day to come.

Ephesians 4:9 the lower parts of the earth was the grave where Jesus was laid until He ascended to the Father on the third day.

Maybe you should do a study on hell
(Tartarus) and tell me that you think that is the grave.

JLB

 

[JLB]

First of all I am a sister, not a brother.

I have removed nothing from scripture, but only have given what I believe the scripture says just as you have. Just because we do not agree with each other gives no cause to demean one another. We are ever learning and that is why we discuss the scriptures as none of us could ever exhaust the word of God.

Matthew 12:40 the heart of the earth is the grave. Hades is described as the grave nothing more, nothing less. The lower parts of the earth means the grave as described in Ezekiel 32:24; Acts 2:31; Ephesians 4:9; 1Peter 4:6.

In Luke 26:42, 43 Jesus told the thief he would be with Jesus in paradise that day just as all of us will be with Jesus in paradise that day we repented and ask Jesus to be our Lord and Savior, but many of us like the repented thief will be laying in the grave waiting for that day to come.

Ephesians 4:9 the lower parts of the earth was the grave where Jesus was laid until He ascended to the Father on the third day.

Hell is where there is fire.

If you don't believe this, then watch a Volcano erupt.

But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:22

If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched-- Mark 9:43

And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell. James 3:6

Just as Jesus taught us in Luke 16, The rich man was being tormented in the flame of fire, in hell.


JLB

 

[agua.]

You believe the heart of the earth or the lower parts of the earth is a reference to the Tomb He was in?

How about the belly of a great fish, down in the middle of the fish?

Does that mean in the fishes mouth or it's belly?


JLB

Yes it was the Tomb. The big fishies belly is the belly ie. under the surface.

 

[agua.]

Maybe you should do a study on hell
(Tartarus) and tell me that you think that is the grave.

JLB

I think you should do a study on Tartarus considering it isn't the usually mentioned hell ( the grave ) and it's specifically for the Angels who sinned. I think you know this considering you're a brother SGA believer :D ( Sons of God are Angels )

 

[JLB]

I think you should do a study on Tartarus considering it isn't the usually mentioned hell ( the grave ) and it's specifically for the Angels who sinned. I think you know this considering you're a brother SGA believer :biggrin ( Sons of God are Angels )

Where is Tartarus located?

Down in the lower parts of the earth, or in the ground of the earth like a 6'0 deep grave or tomb.


JLB

 

[Butch5]

No sir.

When you choose to remove what the scripture actually says, such as "Samuel said", and replace it with what you say, such as "the demon said", the you are guilty of PRESUMPTION.

The exact same sin that Saul himself was guilty of that caused God to depart from him.

For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and presumption is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, he has also rejected you from being king." 1 Samuel 15:23




The heart of the earth is the phrase that Jesus used, and the heart of the earth is the phrase that I used.

Jesus descended down into the heart of the earth, where both hell and Abraham's Bosom were located at the time He walked this earth in the flesh.

Again, read what the scripture says -

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matthew 12:40

and again

(Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? Ephesians 4:9


What does the lower parts of the Earth mean to you, Brother?


JLB

Well here's what the Scripture says.

YLT 1 Chronicles 10:13 And Saul dieth because of his trespass that he trespassed against Jehovah, against the word of Jehovah that he kept not, and also for asking at a familiar spirit -- to inquire, -- (1Ch 10:13 YLT)

 

[Butch5]

No sir.

When you choose to remove what the scripture actually says, such as "Samuel said", and replace it with what you say, such as "the demon said", the you are guilty of PRESUMPTION.

The exact same sin that Saul himself was guilty of that caused God to depart from him.

For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and presumption is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, he has also rejected you from being king." 1 Samuel 15:23




The heart of the earth is the phrase that Jesus used, and the heart of the earth is the phrase that I used.

Jesus descended down into the heart of the earth, where both hell and Abraham's Bosom were located at the time He walked this earth in the flesh.

Again, read what the scripture says -

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matthew 12:40

and again

(Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? Ephesians 4:9


What does the lower parts of the Earth mean to you, Brother?


JLB

Well here's what the Scripture says.

YLT 1 Chronicles 10:13 And Saul dieth because of his trespass that he trespassed against Jehovah, against the word of Jehovah that he kept not, and also for asking at a familiar spirit -- to inquire, -- (1Ch 10:13 YLT)

You believe the heart of the earth or the lower parts of the earth is a reference to the Tomb He was in?

How about the belly of a great fish, down in the middle of the fish?

Does that mean in the fishes mouth or it's belly?


JLB

It appears there are mountains, forests and trees in the lower parts of the earth, do you believe that is underground?

23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. (Isa 44:23 KJV)

 

[JLB]

Well here's what the Scripture says.

YLT 1 Chronicles 10:13 And Saul dieth because of his trespass that he trespassed against Jehovah, against the word of Jehovah that he kept not, and also for asking at a familiar spirit -- to inquire, -- (1Ch 10:13 YLT)



It appears there are mountains, forests and trees in the lower parts of the earth, do you believe that is underground?

23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. (Isa 44:23 KJV)

LOL!

No where in this scripture does it say trees were in the lower parts of the earth.

The trees are said to be therein.

Therein the forest!

More of your misinterpretation!

JLB

 

[JLB]

Well here's what the Scripture says.

YLT 1 Chronicles 10:13 And Saul dieth because of his trespass that he trespassed against Jehovah, against the word of Jehovah that he kept not, and also for asking at a familiar spirit -- to inquire, -- (1Ch 10:13 YLT)

Saul was guilty of seeking a medium who operates by a familiar spirit.

That doesn't mean Samuel was a familiar spirit.

JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Where is Tartarus located?

Down in the lower parts of the earth, or in the ground of the earth like a 6'0 deep grave or tomb.


JLB

Latin, from Greek Tartaros

So you are saying you believe in Greek mythology because this is where Tartarus originated from.

 

[for_his_glory]

You believe the heart of the earth or the lower parts of the earth is a reference to the Tomb He was in?

How about the belly of a great fish, down in the middle of the fish?

Does that mean in the fishes mouth or it's belly?


JLB

The “belly of hell” signifies the grave or underworld as being below the Earths surface (Jonah 2:2).

 

[WIP]

Friendly reminder.

1) Give other members the respect you would have them give to yourself. (ToS 2.4)
Address issues/ideas, not persons or personalities. Do not insult, publicly post derogatory opinions of others, post insinuation to belittle or discredit, or otherwise create a hostile environment. Present evidence for support or rebuttal during debate. Bashing the author of another view or opinion is not evidence.

If you disagree with something another poster has written, do so with respect and kindly show them (from scripture) why you think they are in error. Who knows, it might be discovered that you yourself was the one in error all along.