- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,580
- 8,094
-
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
-
-
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
Calling Samuel's Spirit, what's it?
- Thread starter jonahmano
- Start date
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,580
- 8,094
- Apr 22, 2011
- 30,735
- 16,346
I never suggested you believe in Greek mythology. I only asked if you did because this is where the word Tartarus comes from. I would suggest you do a study on Tartarus as it is not found in any scripture. Where in scripture does it say where hell is physically as it's not here on earth or under the ground as when Jesus returns and purifies this present Earth in order to usher down the New Jerusalem hell can not be in the midst of the purified Earth. Yes, the scriptures are very depicted of what hell is like, but yet does not give a physical eye view other than being a place of eternal torment. Hell is not here on Earth or under the ground of Earth. People say they are going through hell, but only going through the torments they are facing, liking it to a place of torment just as Jonah cried out from his torment.
Jonah 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
Belly of hell only means that of the torment Jonah felt while being in the belly of the whale that God crated to swallow Jonah.
Belly is described as:
the seat of the carnal affections (Titus 1:12; Phil. 3:19; Rom. 16:18)
The word is used symbolically for the heart (Prov. 18:8; 20:27).
The “belly of hell” signifies the grave or underworld (Jonah 2:2).
A
agua.
Guest
JLB can you show me where Tartarus is located from the Bible. It doesn't say here.
2Pe 2:4 KJV For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (tartaroō ), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Also I thought this is one of the scriptures you use to show what happened to the sinning angels ( sons of God ) do you also suggest humans go there ?
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,580
- 8,094
I suggest that there is more to the heart of the earth that a grave.
The Lower parts of the earth, where Jesus preached to these very spirits (angels) when He was down there for three days and nights.
JLB
Butch5
Member
- Jul 16, 2012
- 5,372
- 295
The tress are in the forest, the forest is on the mountains and the mountains are where? In the lower parts of the earth.
What's interesting is that you've said others are putting their own interpretation on the Scriptures, but isn't that what you done with the phrase "lower parts of the earth"? Where do you find anything in Scripture that would suggest that the lower parts of the earth is underground? It seems to me that you're understanding the word "earth" as this planet that we live on. However, that is not how the Scriptures use the word earth. When the Scripture say earth it means land. God said that the dry land is earth.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. (Gen 1:9-10 KJV)
The passage actually says He descended into the lower parts of the Land.
Also, as a side note, though the men probably didn't know this, God did. The Dead Sea, is the lowest point on earth (planet) that is not in the sea. That area is the lowest parts of the earth {planet)
Deborah13
Member
- Nov 30, 2012
- 14,684
- 1,936
YLT
2Pe 2:4 For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast them down to Tartarus, did deliver them to judgment, having been reserved,
G5020-
From Τάρταρος Tartaros̄ (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment: - cast down to hell.
I figure if I just copy other people's work I can't get into too much trouble. :shades
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,580
- 8,094
23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. (Isa 44:23 KJV)
Where in this verse does it say that the Mountains, Forest and Trees are in the lower parts of the earth?
(Comment removed, TOS 2.4)
Sing and shout from the heaven to the lower parts of the earth.
Break forth into singing you mountains, forest and trees.
This by no means places the mountains, trees and forest, down in the lower parts of the earth, as in Hell.
(Comment removed, TOS 2.4)
Frankly I have never heard of people trying to explain away the fact that; there is a hell with fire, and people exist after their body dies.
I don't know where this (edited) doctrine originated, but it surely doesn't come from the scriptures.
JLB
Last edited by a moderator:
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,580
- 8,094
12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, "Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!"
13 And the king said to her, "Do not be afraid. What did you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth."
The woman seemed to be extremely surprised, and afraid at what she saw, something that she was not used to seeing.
Instantly she knew that the man that came to her was King Saul, because she saw the spirit of the king's prophet..
JLB
- Apr 22, 2011
- 30,735
- 16,346
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
This verse simply says that Jesus came to earth. It’s a reference to His incarnation, not to His physical location after death.
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Jesus' proclamation was to the fallen angels, not to human beings as this is a reference to the fallen angels who were involved in spawning the Nephilim in the days of Noah. If you notice it says prison, not hell, Hades, Tartarus. What Jesus preached to them was the fact that He now had the victory over death and the demons could no longer have any victory over those who are in Christ.
Vs. 18 Jesus was put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit, which means, angels are spirit with no form. Jesus was made a quickening Spirit and it is that Spirit that went and preached to those spirits in prison. Notice the capital S and small s.
This verse simply says that Jesus came to earth. It’s a reference to His incarnation, not to His physical location after death.
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Jesus' proclamation was to the fallen angels, not to human beings as this is a reference to the fallen angels who were involved in spawning the Nephilim in the days of Noah. If you notice it says prison, not hell, Hades, Tartarus. What Jesus preached to them was the fact that He now had the victory over death and the demons could no longer have any victory over those who are in Christ.
Vs. 18 Jesus was put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit, which means, angels are spirit with no form. Jesus was made a quickening Spirit and it is that Spirit that went and preached to those spirits in prison. Notice the capital S and small s.
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,580
- 8,094
How could Jesus preach to the spirits in prison if He was the Tomb?
His dead Body was in the Tomb.
He preached to the spirits in prison.
The thief on the cross was with Him that day, do you also believe the thief was in the sand Tomb as Jesus?
JLB
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,580
- 8,094
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 1 Peter 3:18-20
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-5
Same angels in Tartarus, were the same angels in prison.
8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men." 9 (Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
This is a reference to Jesus descending down to the heart of the earth.
40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Jesus descended down into the lower parts of the earth for three days and nights.
Please show the reference in the scriptures where it refers to Jesus descending to earth at His incarnation.
JLB
- Apr 22, 2011
- 30,735
- 16,346
Luke 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
No, the thief on the cross is also asleep in his grave waiting for that of Christ return as everyone else before him and after him that died in the Lord. There is no one in the third Heaven, but God, Jesus and Gods created angels. It is only the breath that returns back to God when this flesh dies. If the thief was with Jesus in the third heaven then this would void out 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17. No one has gone to be with the Lord yet.
Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
No, the thief on the cross is also asleep in his grave waiting for that of Christ return as everyone else before him and after him that died in the Lord. There is no one in the third Heaven, but God, Jesus and Gods created angels. It is only the breath that returns back to God when this flesh dies. If the thief was with Jesus in the third heaven then this would void out 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17. No one has gone to be with the Lord yet.
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,580
- 8,094
Yes, Paradise was in the heart of the earth the day Jesus spoke those words to the thief, it was also called Abraham's Bosom.
- Apr 22, 2011
- 30,735
- 16,346
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
(captivity captive means Jesus defeated the enemy)
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
(Descended into the lower parts of the earth means his body laid three days in the grave)
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.
(Jesus descended in his incarnate or physical form when he was laid in the tomb for three days and nights, which he also rose from the grave in such manner until he was glorified before the Father)
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
(put to death in the incarnate form of being physical man then quickened by the Spirit means that of the Holy Spirit that he was now glorified before the Father)
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
(It was Jesus glorified that went to preach to the spirits that are bound and preserved for Gods judgement just as one being in prison until final judgement. What he preached was the victory he had now over death,1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?, that now through Gods grace we all have the victory over death as those spirits have no victory over those who are in Christ.
Please show me in scripture where it uses the word Tartarus as I can't seem to find this word as it's only used in Greek mythology. Hell is a descriptive place of darkness described in scripture as a lake of fire. Whether that description is literal or metaphorical I am not sure and I kinda lean on it being metaphorical, but Gods word never has described where it is located just as the third heaven is never given a physical location, but the first and second heavens have.
- Apr 22, 2011
- 30,735
- 16,346
A
agua.
Guest
Ah I guess you take the 1Peter 3 scriptures to imply Jesus preached between His death and resurrection. If you study the entire section it's about encouraging Christians to stand strong in the face of adversity and they will be delivered as Noah was. Notice the section we're discussing falls between the parenthesis statements
1Pe 3:13-15 KJV And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?
...
1Pe 4:19 KJV Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
Jesus preached through Noah in the same way He does through us.
1Pe 1:10-11 KJV Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: (11) Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
2Pe 2:4-5 KJV For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; (5) And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
I understand why you think Jesus preached while in the Tomb because it's the usual doctrine people hold which comes from the early Apostle's Creed in which someone snuck in " He descended into Hell".
Here's a decent summary study of this corrupted text
And here's a mostly decent synopsis of 1Peter3-4.
I believe Jesus told the thief he would be with Him in Paradise with the declaration "verily I say to you today" .
JLB can you tell me why you use "tartarus" to mean the same as every other usage of "hell" when it's clearly something else ?