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Calvinism: why such animosity?

LOL thanks guys..
Born to a pentecostal preacher i grew up understanding we had to be saved & resaved about every week.. Time has a way of teaching us stuff.. Dad said hey look at this... and the light came on a the realization that salvation is in His Blood not in my sin...
Calvinism is not much different the OSAS Some place between Arminism and Calvinism to me is the reality..

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin) Romans 3 10
Unconditional Election... Psa_40:2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
Irresistible Grace
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved) Php_1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Does little bit of scripture define all of what is called Calvinism nope.. Can a little bit of scripture define Arminism nope
John 3.16 is a god starting point .. there is much more to Scripture then only John 3 16..

Some where in between and that place may not be the exact same spot for each of us.. we are His..
 
Christ_empowered said:
...everybody's supposed to get a shot...
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Or could it be the reverse? Since salvation is offered to all, it carries over into the concept that who governs is to be decided by all.

Calvinism denies this fundamental Bible truth -- that all can be saved if all will repent, since eternal life is freely offered to all (Rev 22:17).
 
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OzSpen said:
I respond as a Reformed/Classical Arminian (without agreeing with all that Arminius wrote). My view is that some of the hostility between the Calvinist and Arminian camps relates to:
  1. Misrepresentation by both sides of the other side's view. When something false is said about you or me, we often want people to know this falsehood. Arminian theology is often identified with semi-Pelagian views. Semi-Pelagian is human-centred salvation.
  2. The doctrinaire approach used by both sides. Doctrinaire means 'Seeking to impose a doctrine in all circumstances without regard to practical considerations' (Oxford dictionaries, online, 2016. S v doctrinaire). For me, I find the nature of the God of Calvinism who predestines people to damnation (Calvin's view) to be abominable.
  3. Deeply held beliefs by both sides. When these are challenged as wrong, it can sometimes cause more heat than light.
Oz
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It's true, there has been considerable conflict between Arminians and Calvinists over the years, much based on mis-understanidngs. My own view is that it really doesn't matter much for individual Christians. It's a great topic for discussion, but do I really care whether my salvation comes strictly from God's Grace, or from God's Grace and my submission to His will. No. It won't make an iota of difference in how I live my Christian life, and none of us is ever going to be sure of our righteousness with God until we stand in His presence. We work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
 
Logically, if you cannot support all five points of Calvinism then you can't support any of them.

And if your church has altar calls then functionally they are only Calvinists in name only.
 
Yeah, as to the answer how and why there is an answer... Just nobody likes it.

So it tends to get ignored.
 
Mike S said:
Can we imperfect creatures ever know the full will of the sovereign God of the universe? I don't think so, we see as through a glass darkly.
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We can know this answer. (I learned it). But the answer isn't liked by the vast majority.
They don't like the hermeneutics and more importantly they don't like the answers.
 
JohnDB said:
We can know this answer. (I learned it). But the answer isn't liked by the vast majority.
They don't like the hermeneutics and more importantly they don't like the answers.
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And, what difference does it make if we do know?
 
JohnDB said:
Logically, if you cannot support all five points of Calvinism then you can't support any of them.

And if your church has altar calls then functionally they are only Calvinists in name only.
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John, as Methodists, we do have altar calls. And it is about accepting Christ as savior, but it can also be for folk who need to feel closer to God in a submissive position, for blessings, or healing, or praying for the touch of God's hand on others.

I have a story that made an impression on me years ago. It was told by a southern Bishop at our Annual Conference. As a newly ordained pastor he was serving his first congregation, and was concerned he might be too long in his sermon and service, so he chose to not make an altar call. After the service, an older women from the congregation (every Methodist congregation has a well seasoned, very strong matriarch who does not hesitate to call out a pastor if she thinks it necessary) asked to speak with him in his office. She explained nicely, but firmly, that the altar call is never to be omitted from a service. Somewhere among the people sitting in the pews there may be someone who desperately needs and wants to come to Jesus. He understood, and never again omitted an altar call from a service.
 
Mike S said:
It's true, there has been considerable conflict between Arminians and Calvinists over the years, much based on mis-understanidngs. My own view is that it really doesn't matter much for individual Christians. It's a great topic for discussion, but do I really care whether my salvation comes strictly from God's Grace, or from God's Grace and my submission to His will. No. It won't make an iota of difference in how I live my Christian life, and none of us is ever going to be sure of our righteousness with God until we stand in His presence. We work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
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It can have considerable impact on the way one approaches evangelism. Many Arminians I know are active in evangelism outside of the church walls. Why? God said he wants the Gospel to be preached to the whole world. They are very active in sending missionaries.

I have an evangelical Presbyterian (Calvinistic) pastor friend and when my wife spoke with him about evangelism, his answer was, 'God will bring them in'. As a result, that Calvinistic church does no outreach evangelism. The result? The church is shrinking in numbers as the members become old and older.

The Presbyterian Church of Australia is shrinking in membership. It's about the same size as the SDA denomination. The last figures I saw for this denomination were that there were 36,000 members and declining.

Oz
 
OzSpen said:
It can have considerable impact on the way one approaches evangelism. Many Arminians I know are active in evangelism outside of the church walls. Why? God said he wants the Gospel to be preached to the whole world. They are very active in sending missionaries.
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That's true, I really hadn't thought about, I was thinking more in terms of individual Christian living. Our Methodists have always been very active in sending evangelizing missionaries around the world. I myself have been active in volunteer missions, where we always have opportunities to spread the Gospel.

Interesting that since we have a sizeable group of liberal Methodists in the U.S. determined to change our Disciple so that we can ordain openly and active gay clergy, and include same sex couples in our marriage rituals, the Africans to whom we sent missionaries (very conservative traditional Bible centered Christians) in centuries past are now offering to send missionaries to us in America. I like their spunk. Thank God we are a global church.
 
OzSpen made a good point which I bring up when someone tells me we're all saved. Why send out missionaries?It would make no sense if we're all saved anyway, and it would make no sense if God chooses whom He will.

Christ Empowered has it right too. He said we all want a shot at being saved. And one poster said he couldn't serve such a mean God that would, of His own choice, send someone to hell.

I believe you choose to serve God. I believe you could abandon Him and loose salvation. But Calvinists believe the same as I do, except they'll say that the person was never saved to begin with. so, same difference. They're still lost in the end. I believe that once someone comes to know Jesus, it's pretty much impossible to abandon Him.
Confusing, isn't it?

So for some threads we'll list our scripture and put forth what we believe. But I think God is a big God. He's not protestant, He's not Catholic, He's not Calvinist and He's not Arminian, or anything in between. He's not any of these, and He's all of these.

Wondering
 
Mike S said:
It's true, there has been considerable conflict between Arminians and Calvinists over the years, much based on mis-understanidngs. My own view is that it really doesn't matter much for individual Christians. It's a great topic for discussion, but do I really care whether my salvation comes strictly from God's Grace, or from God's Grace and my submission to His will. No. It won't make an iota of difference in how I live my Christian life, and none of us is ever going to be sure of our righteousness with God until we stand in His presence. We work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
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Do you mean our righteousness or do you mean our salvation?
I ask because our righteousness does not depend on us but on Jesus.
So if we're depending on Jesus how could we not be sure of our righteousness? it's HIS that we depend on.
Or do you mean that you're secure in your salvation but God will judge our righteousness in relation to our treatment of others.

Wondering
 
wondering said:
Do you mean our righteousness or do you mean our salvation?
I ask because our righteousness does not depend on us but on Jesus.
So if we're depending on Jesus how could we not be sure of our righteousness? it's HIS that we depend on.
Or do you mean that you're secure in your salvation but God will judge our righteousness in relation to our treatment of others.

Wondering
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I mean we will find out just how closely we've lived according to God's will, or how we have failed. Yes, our salvation.
 
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