Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

[Hobie]

Some believe that once you decide to be saved you can never choose to be lost again, it is irrevocable on your part. When you accept Jesus as your Saviour, it will be the final choice you will ever make about your eternal destiny. If you change your mind later and repudiate your decision, it will be too late, nothing can change it. No matter how deeply and sincerely you desire to be lost and repent of your repentance, you cannot escape from eternal life. No amount of bitter rebellion, deliberate blasphemy, or iniquitous living can change that once-for-all decision to be saved.



Is this what the Bible teaches or could it be that maybe salvation is not predicated upon only one irrevocable act or choice of the past, but upon a continuous, personal relationship of the believer with Christ?

 

[jasoncran]

read hebrews 6, for if one can choose to leave that then its impossible for him to return to christ.

most likely that person never was saved in the first place. we all go astray, but that isnt saying that we deny the lord and deny that he died on the cross. thats rebellion or a mistake, not a deliberate effort to be an anti-christ!

we all have those rebellious streaks and we want to be in charge. but if you choose to deny him like that after knowing that hes real, you werent saved in the first places and are condemned already. that is what hebrews 6 says.

 

[watchman F]

Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

In a word....YES

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

Is this what the Bible teaches or could it be that maybe salvation is not predicated upon only one irrevocable act or choice of the past, but upon a continuous, personal relationship of the believer with Christ?

but upon a continuous, personal relationship of the believer with Christ

But salvation is not a choice! It is a FAITH - some recieve the word in faith, with joy and continue a time UNTIL persecution OR the cares of this world come and then they are swept up in what they desire more than what they have been given.- When this happens they fail the grace of God

Hbr 12:14 Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:


Hbr 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble [you], and thereby many be defiled;


Hbr 12:16 Lest there [be] any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.


Hbr 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

 

[jasoncran]

edom was saved before that was a concept, i didnt know that?

if one can choose to be lost after salvation, then theres no hope for that person.

He was never saved if would even want that.

 

[faithtransforms]

I personally believe the bible is VERY CLEAR that salvation can be lost.

Hebrews 6:
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The people these verses are speaking of were not "most likely not saved in the first place". They were partakers of the Holy Ghost. You cannot partake of the Holy Ghost if you are not saved.

Hebrews 10:

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

These people have RECEIVED knowledge of the truth. And notice it says, "wherewith he was sanctified" which means this person was definitely saved to begin with.

---

Colossians 1:

21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard

Notice the "IF"

There are many other examples, but I'm too tired to come up with them now. Will post more later.

 

[jasoncran]

I personally believe the bible is VERY CLEAR that salvation can be lost.

Hebrews 6:
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The people these verses are speaking of were not "most likely not saved in the first place". They were partakers of the Holy Ghost. You cannot partake of the Holy Ghost if you are not saved.

Hebrews 10:

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

These people have RECEIVED knowledge of the truth. And notice it says, "wherewith he was sanctified" which means this person was definitely saved to begin with.

---

Colossians 1:

21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard

Notice the "IF"

There are many other examples, but I'm too tired to come up with them now. Will post more later.

let me ask you this, ever sin habitually, ie you cant seem to shake that sin, ie cursing, lusting, each day you repent yet you do it again and agian and again? you know that is wrong to do that, yet you do. also if read on in verse 6. it goes on say about lets know talk things that pertain unto salvation.

 

[faithtransforms]

I personally believe the bible is VERY CLEAR that salvation can be lost.

Hebrews 6:
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The people these verses are speaking of were not "most likely not saved in the first place". They were partakers of the Holy Ghost. You cannot partake of the Holy Ghost if you are not saved.

Hebrews 10:

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

These people have RECEIVED knowledge of the truth. And notice it says, "wherewith he was sanctified" which means this person was definitely saved to begin with.

---

Colossians 1:

21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard

Notice the "IF"

There are many other examples, but I'm too tired to come up with them now. Will post more later.

let me ask you this, ever sin habitually, ie you cant seem to shake that sin, ie cursing, lusting, each day you repent yet you do it again and agian and again? you know that is wrong to do that, yet you do. also if read on in verse 6. it goes on say about lets know talk things that pertain unto salvation.

Yes, I have struggled with habitual sin. In fact, at one time I actually had thought I lost my salvation because of Hebrews 10. But I came to know that God's mercy is infinite with His children, I just couldn't understand at the time how he could forgive me for something I'd done on purpose. But He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that if you walk away from God and live in sin and never repent, you will lose your salvation. However, Godd is quick to forgive a repentent person, and this is clear through the OT and the NT. My pastor said the only Christians that will lose their salvation are those who totally reject Christ (like convert to Islam or something) or those Christians who bear absolutely no fruit (spiritual fruit), basically as I have said, turning from God and living a life of sin without ever repenting.

 

[jasoncran]

thats' the point you cant change. when you repeat that sin thats sorrow you feel is evidence of salvation. but if you didnt care, where you ever saved? no. btw if you look at the verse it's really talking about those that are convicted enough to repent and dont and each time they do,its get harder to repent.and eventually they are like the pharoah of egypt.

if one looses his salvation can he get it back, no.
you know when you did that sin it was wrong, yet you havent the power to stop that sin. it was willful as you knew it was sin.thus grace and mercy is needed. btw i'm in the same problem so i aint judging you.

just making a point.

 

[faithtransforms]

thats' the point you cant change. when you repeat that sin thats sorrow you feel is evidence of salvation. but if you didnt care, where you ever saved? no. btw if you look at the verse it's really talking about those that are convicted enough to repent and dont and each time they do,its get harder to repent.and eventually they are like the pharoah of egypt.

if one looses his salvation can he get it back, no.
you know when you did that sin it was wrong, yet you havent the power to stop that sin. it was willful as you knew it was sin.thus grace and mercy is needed. btw i'm in the same problem so i aint judging you.

just making a point.

Yeah, I understand your point. I'm just worried right now about a friend of mine. She is definitely 100% born again and walked with the Lord for years, felt sorry for sins and repented, etc. Then her husband cheated on her. She refused to forgive him, even though he was penitent, and divorced him. She became offended at my pastor's wife for telling her she needed to repent of unforgiveness and stopped coming to church. Now she is out there have unmarried sex and drinking and partying and totally ignoring God. She shows up at church ocassionally. She still believes, but even demons believe. I feel that if she does not repent, she WILL lose her salvation.

I guess I shouldn't say I'm worried, because I am believing God for her repentence, and I will believe it will happen. But its not a good situation.

 

[jasoncran]

if she was truly saved then she shall be in heaven.albeit her reward wont be much.
prayer is needed for her.
if what you say is true then she is already damned to hell. no way to repent.

 

[faithtransforms]

if what you say is true then she is already damned to hell. no way to repent.

Oh I wouldn't agree with that. I believe you can repent all the way up to the last breath you take. She could do this for 10 years and if she suddenly gets convicted and repents, God will receive her.

 

[jasoncran]

if what you say is true then she is already damned to hell. no way to repent.

Oh I wouldn't agree with that. I believe you can repent all the way up to the last breath you take. She could do this for 10 years and if she suddenly gets convicted and repents, God will receive her.

you just said in that verse that you support, one can loose your salvation.
using hebrews 6 for that then there's no way to repent as she has tasted the lord and turned away.

reread hebrews 6. and then think about what you believe. all non osas believers do this. funny.
that is why i brought that up.

if you can loose it, then theres no hope for you, you are damned already. see the conundrum.i didnt always believe in eternal security till i listened to adrain rogers explanation of it.

he used hebrews 6 to show that, like i just have.

 

[faithtransforms]

The Hebrews verse says if they shall "fall away". In my opinion that means if they should quit believing. Apostasy isn't sinning, its going after false doctrine or denying Christ.

With regard to eternal security, what about this from 2 Peter:

20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

 

[jasoncran]

again you are missing that verse. in hebrews 6, if lost they can never repent. now other sacrifice left.
hebrews 6:6

If they shall fall away to renew them again unto repentance: seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame

then theres hebrews 10:26

For if we sin willfully after that we have recieved the knowledge the truth, there remaineth no sacrifice for sins.

we cant repent if we walk away from the lord. if we are truly saved and then loose it, no way back.

if you believe that you can be saved and loose it those state if its lost no way back.

 

[faithtransforms]

again you are missing that verse. in hebrews 6, if lost they can never repent. now other sacrifice left.
hebrews 6:6

If they shall fall away to renew them again unto repentance: seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame

then theres hebrews 10:26

For if we sin willfully after that we have recieved the knowledge the truth, there remaineth no sacrifice for sins.

we cant repent if we walk away from the lord. if we are truly saved and then loose it, no way back.

if you believe that you can be saved and loose it those state if its lost no way back.

Did you not read my post? I believe "fall away" in Heb 6 is to stop believing. That is apostasy. Not believing or going after false gospels (such as the gnostics of the time), which is basically not believing. So I believe my friend, since she still believes can still repent. But if she stops believing, she is doomed. To continue to sin willfully, to me, means you walk away from God and never repent, whether you still believe or not. Then you would also be damned.

 

[jasoncran]

lol, you just confirmed what eternal security is. a truly saved person cant be an apostate.
john states the false prophets came out from us but are not of us.

thanks

 

[faithtransforms]

lol, you just confirmed what eternal security is. a truly saved person cant be an apostate.
john states the false prophets came out from us but are not of us.

thanks

Your logic eludes me. A truly saved person CAN apostasize, no question. Then they are lost.

 

[jasoncran]

lol, you just confirmed what eternal security is. a truly saved person cant be an apostate.
john states the false prophets came out from us but are not of us.

thanks

Your logic eludes me. A truly saved person CAN apostasize, no question. Then they are lost.

then he cant be saved ever again. your friend there by your statment is choosing to walk away. thus willful sinning.

if you truthfully believe then why would continue in sin? think about that. is it for cause you dont want to repent or that you dont have the power to stop.

and christians dont rebel? come on now. we do.

if its all out apostasy then what of judas. he seen the miracles, jesus never called him his own, but what did he say, one you of has a devil.
hmm

 

[faithtransforms]

lol, you just confirmed what eternal security is. a truly saved person cant be an apostate.
john states the false prophets came out from us but are not of us.

thanks

Your logic eludes me. A truly saved person CAN apostasize, no question. Then they are lost.

then he cant be saved ever again. your friend there by your statment is choosing to walk away. thus willful sinning.

if you truthfully believe then why would continue in sin? think about that. is it for cause you dont want to repent or that you dont have the power to stop.

and christians dont rebel? come on now. we do.

if its all out apostasy then what of judas. he seen the miracles, jesus never called him his own, but what did he say, one you of has a devil.
hmm

Let me try to be more clear:

APOSTASY: No longer believing the Gospel
WILLFULLY SINNING: Sinning with no regret against God. This is practicing sin as a lifestyle. This excludes sin that is habitual and you are working on and being delivered from. Now how long you have to willfully sin to lose your salvation, I don't know.

So if my friend is willfully sinning against God, I cannot say for sure how long she would have to continue doing it to lose her salvation, but I know for sure she would lose it if she doesn't repent before she dies. And also if she stops believing, she will be lost.

Yes, you can really believe and still willfully sin. She is ignorant of scripture and when I confronted her she just said God is merciful and that was it. But a person can be operating under a SPIRIT of unbelief and willfully sin because it is a spirit of blindness, but that doesn't mean you don't truly believe in your heart underneath all that hardness. It just means you are being deceived.