Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

[jasoncran]

let me ask you this

what of the statement that by jesus
no man is worthy of me if has one hand on the plow and is looking backwards

if you have commited your life to christ then you cant be doing that. you must be sincere. not well i will try this but i'm not sure.
if you have said lord I know that you are who you are and i want you to come in. if you have done that truthfully then you cant deny him, unless you can somehow kick him out of you. if you want to return to your vomit then was he ever in your heart.

think about this.
i get saved, and repent of my theft, and so on. and i fall into my bisexuality. i repent of that,and leave it behind.
the larter repentance was the real salvation as i honeslty surrendered imho.
yrs later i return to that and also deny his existence and despite that all that he has done for me. and he has. and choose to steal and be bi. was i really saved at all? probably not. i have no desire to be bi again though my flesh will be inclined to that sin.the lord gave me the power not be that way. we are freed from sin.but our flesh isnt redeemed, our inner man is.we must grow in grace.i must feed the innerman so that he may grow.

the sinner has no desire to be for christ and cant, the saved man does.

 

[faithtransforms]

let me ask you this

what of the statement that by jesus
no man is worthy of me if has one hand on the plow and is looking backwards

if you have commited your life to christ then you cant be doing that. you must be sincere. not well i will try this but i'm not sure.
if you have said lord I know that you are who you are and i want you to come in. if you have done that truthfully then you cant deny him, unless you can somehow kick him out of you. if you want to return to your vomit then was he ever in your heart.

think about this.
i get saved, and repent of my theft, and so on. and i fall into my bisexuality. i repent of that,and leave it behind.
the larter repentance was the real salvation as i honeslty surrendered imho.
yrs later i return to that and also deny his existence and despite that all that he has done for me. and he has. and choose to steal and be bi. was i really saved at all? probably not. i have no desire to be bi again though my flesh will be inclined to that sin.the lord gave me the power not be that way. we are freed from sin.but our flesh isnt redeemed, our inner man is.we must grow in grace.i must feed the innerman so that he may grow.

the sinner has no desire to be for christ and cant, the saved man does.

Paul is clear that the Day of the Lord will not come until a falling away (apostasy is the greek word falling away is translated from in that verse) comes first. Apostasy is when you have been saved and you then reject Christ. That fact is quite clear.

And how do you respond the scripture I quoted from 2Peter2:20? The man in question had been cleansed and known the way of righteousness, that is not possible if someone is not born again (the cleansing).

And I know from experience that you can turn from the Lord and be forgiven if you repent. There have been times since I have been saved that I have been in sin and not felt guilty about it. But then the conviction of the Holy Spirit came on me and I repented, and God received me. Now I wasn't in abject sin like unmarried sex or homosexuality, but it was unrepentant sin none the less. And when I finally did repent, like I said, God received me and cleansed me from all unrighteousness. Apostasy is different, once you have lost your faith in Christ, you are lost forever.

 

[jasoncran]

then what of that verse of for if we willfully sin(ie turn away) there no further sacrifice.

that is what we did. we sin willfully. i knew that being bi was wrong when i did it. i was decieving myself, the Lord told me in church. its sin , REPENT. the longer i did it the harder it got to hear that voice and also easier to stay in that sin.

i was decieved and i didnt want to admit. yet i deep down knew that i was wrong. i wanted that sin over the Lord. was it willful? yes. i really dont think i was saved when i was doing that. i dont.


hmm come to the knowledge of the lord, in that verse 2:20. is that salvation or hearing the gospel and not making a choice to act. adrian rogers also dealt with this.

btw

eternal seurity pastors you like

james mcdonald

ravis zacharias

adrian rogers.

osteen

 

[faithtransforms]

Jason, I'm nor sure if you saw this post because it came up before your last response:

Let me try to be more clear:

APOSTASY: No longer believing the Gospel
WILLFULLY SINNING: Sinning with no regret against God. This is practicing sin as a lifestyle. This excludes sin that is habitual and you are working on and being delivered from. Now how long you have to willfully sin to lose your salvation, I don't know.

So if my friend is willfully sinning against God, I cannot say for sure how long she would have to continue doing it to lose her salvation, but I know for sure she would lose it if she doesn't repent before she dies. And also if she stops believing, she will be lost.

Yes, you can really believe and still willfully sin. She is ignorant of scripture and when I confronted her she just said God is merciful and that was it. But a person can be operating under a SPIRIT of unbelief and willfully sin because it is a spirit of blindness, but that doesn't mean you don't truly believe in your heart underneath all that hardness. It just means you are being deceived.

 

[faithtransforms]

btw

eternal seurity pastors you like

james mcdonald

ravis zacharias

adrian rogers.

osteen

You can scratch Osteen off that list. I don't even LIKE the man, but as I said before, I just don't happen to think he's the anti-christ or something.

 

[jasoncran]

i will have dig up adrian rogers teachings on 2 peter 2:20. he has a way of explaining that better then i can.

if it willful then repentance isnt possible, if you interpret that verse to mean that you can loose your salvation. see the dillema with that.

if sin is willful then its not forgivable if that verse states the person can come to christ and turn away and not want to be with him nor really care anymore.

 

[faithtransforms]

I have willfully sinned and am not lost. I repented, and God forgave me. Now, I wouldn't say that I practiced sinning willfully for extended periods of time, but I have done it, and God has forgiven me.

 

[jasoncran]

I have willfully sinned and am not lost. I repented, and God forgave me. Now, I wouldn't say that I practiced sinning willfully for extended periods of time, but I have done it, and God has forgiven me.

thus proving my point, if you take that verse to mean that you can loose your salvation then you wouldnt be able to be forgiven

reread that verse if you doubt that.

if you take it to mean salvation isnt secure and that you can choose to leave him then you arent able to repent and be forgiven.

we do rebel. yes and we will be chastisted for that.

i believe that verse to pertain to those that hear the gospel and never accept him, they hear the word and are convicted and never really repent, they just put on a new leaf.


thats' what i think that peter is addressing.

 

[Mysteryman]

let me ask you this

what of the statement that by jesus
no man is worthy of me if has one hand on the plow and is looking backwards

if you have commited your life to christ then you cant be doing that. you must be sincere. not well i will try this but i'm not sure.
if you have said lord I know that you are who you are and i want you to come in. if you have done that truthfully then you cant deny him, unless you can somehow kick him out of you. if you want to return to your vomit then was he ever in your heart.

think about this.
i get saved, and repent of my theft, and so on. and i fall into my bisexuality. i repent of that,and leave it behind.
the larter repentance was the real salvation as i honeslty surrendered imho.
yrs later i return to that and also deny his existence and despite that all that he has done for me. and he has. and choose to steal and be bi. was i really saved at all? probably not. i have no desire to be bi again though my flesh will be inclined to that sin.the lord gave me the power not be that way. we are freed from sin.but our flesh isnt redeemed, our inner man is.we must grow in grace.i must feed the innerman so that he may grow.

the sinner has no desire to be for christ and cant, the saved man does.

Paul is clear that the Day of the Lord will not come until a falling away (apostasy is the greek word falling away is translated from in that verse) comes first. Apostasy is when you have been saved and you then reject Christ. That fact is quite clear.

And how do you respond the scripture I quoted from 2Peter2:20? The man in question had been cleansed and known the way of righteousness, that is not possible if someone is not born again (the cleansing).

And I know from experience that you can turn from the Lord and be forgiven if you repent. There have been times since I have been saved that I have been in sin and not felt guilty about it. But then the conviction of the Holy Spirit came on me and I repented, and God received me. Now I wasn't in abject sin like unmarried sex or homosexuality, but it was unrepentant sin none the less. And when I finally did repent, like I said, God received me and cleansed me from all unrighteousness. Apostasy is different, once you have lost your faith in Christ, you are lost forever.

The verse pertaining to the Lord coming that there will first be a falling away first . This is talking about christians loosing sight of the hope. They will fall away from keep their eyes on Christ coming back to gather up the church. This is not talking about falling back into sin. This is talking about our focus from a spiritual pov of remembering the words of the Lord , how that we will be gathered up, and that we should focus upon this.

Many deceivers ( of which I have just dealt with ) are gone out into the world and have deceived many into believing that the gathering up of the saints is a hoax. And some even say that Christ does not come back to gather up the church until after the tribulation, which is the wrath of God.

No one can loose their salvation once God has given it too them. God foreknew us, and he chose us in Christ, to be holy , and without blame, in Christ.

 

[faithtransforms]

I have willfully sinned and am not lost. I repented, and God forgave me. Now, I wouldn't say that I practiced sinning willfully for extended periods of time, but I have done it, and God has forgiven me.

thus proving my point, if you take that verse to mean that you can loose your salvation then you wouldnt be able to be forgiven

reread that verse if you doubt that.

if you take it to mean salvation isnt secure and that you can choose to leave him then you arent able to repent and be forgiven.

we do rebel. yes and we will be chastisted for that.

i believe that verse to pertain to those that hear the gospel and never accept him, they hear the word and are convicted and never really repent, they just put on a new leaf.


thats' what i think that peter is addressing.

I just don't think I understand what you are saying. I believe people who willfully sin CAN lose their salvation, but they can also repent. From what I understand in the Greek the sinning is continual, something on-going. Now again, I don't know how long you have to willfully sin to lose your salvation, but I believe it CAN happen. However, just because you willfully sin SOMETIMES doesn't mean it WILL happen.

In regard to 2Pet 2:20, he clearly says "those who have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ". How can you escape the pollution of the world without having been cleansed? And the only way to be cleansed is to be born again.

 

[samuel]

There is hardly any sin we commit, being aware of it - that can not be considered willful. But openly rejecting the truth, is altogether another thing. If Paul speaking about Apostasy, is not speaking about believers, then just who are those who commit apostasy. It is not possible! for a non-believer to be apostate. You have to believe in something, before you can fall away from it.

 

[jasoncran]

the pharisee knew that the jesus was the son of god when they crucified him.

how else could jesus judged them for blaspheming the holy spirit.

an apostate knows the truth but never repents. he knows who god is and wants nothing to do with him. he also wants to decieve others.

 

[faithtransforms]

The verse pertaining to the Lord coming that there will first be a falling away first . This is talking about christians loosing sight of the hope. They will fall away from keep their eyes on Christ coming back to gather up the church. This is not talking about falling back into sin. This is talking about our focus from a spiritual pov of remembering the words of the Lord , how that we will be gathered up, and that we should focus upon this.

The Greek word for falling away in 1 Thess is apostasy. That is NOT losing sight or hope in the coming of the Savior. That is denying the faith.

 

[jasoncran]

unbelievers deny! athiest do that all the time.

if you tasted apple pie, and loved and then denied ever tasting it or not liking it

you would either never liked it or lied.

same with christ.

 

[samuel]

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit, had nothing to do with Jesus crucifixion. So what then of this particular scripture.

Gal_5:4, Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

And these two.

Rom 6:16, Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
1Jo_5:16, If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Unless you want to believe the Bible is speaking to unbelievers, but I am afraid not.

 

[jasoncran]

are you implying that bible only is for the believers? that the lost cant pick it up and read and be convinced of salvation?

 

[samuel]

Unbelievers are not given to understand the scriptures, with the exception of the crucifixion account. It is the Holy Spirit that gives us understanding of the scriptures, the natural man cannot understand them. They have no spirit to give understanding to them.

 

[faithtransforms]

unbelievers deny! athiest do that all the time.

if you tasted apple pie, and loved and then denied ever tasting it or not liking it

you would either never liked it or lied.

same with christ.

You are blatantly ignoring the scripture. The falling away in the Greek is Apostasy. That is denying the faith. He is not talking about unbelievers, they have nothing to fall away from!

 

[jasoncran]

Unbelievers are not given to understand the scriptures, with the exception of the crucifixion account. It is the Holy Spirit that gives us understanding of the scriptures, the natural man cannot understand them.

odd, i read it when i wasnt saved and i wound in church. though i didnt understand it all. but i found myself drawn to it.

i'm not alone in that.
athiests have set out to disprove the bible and yet they wind up believing.

ok faithtransforms.let's be simple

ever known someone who has faked repentance, and lies about going to church. or those that arent really saved, they go to church and dont live the life at all.

called hyprocrites. they hear it and dont repent.I knew a few in one church. and my church i'm sure has them.some do know that he is god and believe it yet want nothing to serve him. they want that sin.

 

[faithtransforms]

1st Timothy 4:1

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

How can you depart from a faith you never had?