Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

[samuel]

Peter believed, but he denied the Lord. Just so happens Jesus interceded for Peter in this case, otherwise old Peter would be shoveling coal now. So did Peter really not believe ?????, or what ?????.

If it were not at all possible for someone to fall away, or commit apostasy, it would not even be mentioned in the scripture at all.

 

[jasoncran]

simple by never really believing it in the first place. the devils know that Lord is real and tremble!

its called intellectual faith.you will never meet an agnostic and athiest devil.

 

[Mysteryman]

The verse pertaining to the Lord coming that there will first be a falling away first . This is talking about christians loosing sight of the hope. They will fall away from keep their eyes on Christ coming back to gather up the church. This is not talking about falling back into sin. This is talking about our focus from a spiritual pov of remembering the words of the Lord , how that we will be gathered up, and that we should focus upon this.

The Greek word for falling away in 1 Thess is apostasy. That is NOT losing sight or hope in the coming of the Savior. That is denying the faith.

Hi

Yes, it is the word apostate. But what you must realize, is that the we have been called unto the hope of our calling.

For instance, we are to run the race so that we will gain the prize . And tribulation worketh patience and patience hope. When chrisitans fall away from the hope. They forget that our patience and running the race is because of the hope. When Christ comes back, where will he find you in.

I Corinth. 13:7 - in context is dealing with agape love. We can start with verse 6 - "Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in truth (Love - agape). Verse 7 - (Love - agape) Beareth all thing, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things"

Galatians 5:5 - "For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith"

When christians fall away from the hope, they fall away from the gathering up of the saints. They fall from the truth, they fall from walking by faith.

Faith - Hebrews 11:1 - "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"

We will not see the gathering up of the saints until it happens, and this is done by faith. There must first come a falling away (apostate) from the faith of the hope. Love endures until the end. The end is the gathering up of the saints. Keeping our eyes on the hope, we then tend to walk by faith and walk in the truth, and run the race to receive the prize . When we don't, we then have fallen away. This is why Paul states in I Thess. 5:6 - "Therefore let us not sleep as do others; but let us watch and be sober"

Then Paul reminds them of the hope, by stating this in I Thess. 5:8 - "But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith, and love" and for an helmet , the hope of salvation"

Then Paul states in the next verse, verse 9 - "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ"

In the last two days, I have had three individuals tell me and especially one has preached to me, that the church is going into the tribulation of God. The falling away has already begun ! And fear tactics are being preached and proclaimed. Also false beliefs are being grasped by the saints, by false teachers and false prophets. So it has begun.

 

[samuel]

The biggest problem is people want to believe they can go on sinning, and there is no penalty for it. That is why Romans 7 is so wrongly interpreted, so continued sin can be justified.

Can we be perfect no, but we are commanded to try!. Does that mean we can go on serving sin, NO it does not. We all displease God in many ways we don't even realize, but that does not mean we can blatantly sin, and get by with it.

There are many passages in the Bible that speak about falling away. Again you cannot fall away from something, you did not believe! in the first place.

 

[faithtransforms]

Sorry mysteryman. That's weak. Apostasy is the denial of Jesus Christ after having once believed! Hope of Jesus return has nothing to do with apostasy.

 

[DarcyLu]

Sorry mysteryman. That's weak. Apostasy is the denial of Jesus Christ after having once believed! Hope of Jesus return has nothing to do with apostasy.

:yes apostasy is falling away, defection, revolting. the great falling away spoken of in Matt is talking about people falling away, forsaking God, they will no longer be saved.

 

[jasoncran]

who said that eternal security doctrine embraces sin. i think not.

on the contrary!

 

[DarcyLu]

Also false beliefs are being grasped by the saints, by false teachers and false prophets. So it has begun.

yes, MM, it has begun...and look it, you are STILL here!

 

[DarcyLu]

who said that eternal security doctrine embraces sin. i think not.

on the contrary!

are you talking to me jason?

 

[Mysteryman]

Sorry mysteryman. That's weak. Apostasy is the denial of Jesus Christ after having once believed! Hope of Jesus return has nothing to do with apostasy.

Hi

No it is not ! It is the falling away from faith. Not the denying of Jesus Christ, but the denying of the promises of God.

 

[jasoncran]

who said that eternal security doctrine embraces sin. i think not.

on the contrary!

are you talking to me jason?

to any who say that it does.

i didnt always embrace this. if you look at my older posts i was against this stuff.

 

[DarcyLu]

Sorry mysteryman. That's weak. Apostasy is the denial of Jesus Christ after having once believed! Hope of Jesus return has nothing to do with apostasy.

Hi

No it is not ! It is the falling away from faith. Not the denying of Jesus Christ, but the denying of the promises of God.

mm, you really have to stretch, strain, change and add to scripture to come up with this one.

 

[samuel]

Oh, but Jesus was! one of the promises of God. Hebrews 6, and Galtians 5, are both speaking of Christ. In general the statement "falling away" is not specific, and can apply to disbelief in the rapture, or Christ. But in general it is used in the scripture, of falling away from the faith in Jesus.

 

[Mysteryman]

Sorry mysteryman. That's weak. Apostasy is the denial of Jesus Christ after having once believed! Hope of Jesus return has nothing to do with apostasy.

Hi

No it is not ! It is the falling away from faith. Not the denying of Jesus Christ, but the denying of the promises of God.

mm, you really have to stretch, strain, change and add to scripture to come up with this one.

II Peter 2:1 & 2 & 3

 

[DarcyLu]

who said that eternal security doctrine embraces sin. i think not.

on the contrary!

are you talking to me jason?

to any who say that it does.

i didnt always embrace this. if you look at my older posts i was against this stuff.

thanks for the clarification, any true follower of Christ would not want to embrace sin for sure, believing that doctrine or not, imo.

 

[DarcyLu]

Oh, but Jesus was! one of the promises of God. Hebrews 6, and Galtians 5, are both speaking of Christ. In general the statement "falling away" is not specific, and can apply to disbelief in the rapture, or Christ. But in general it is used in the scripture, of falling away from the faith in Jesus.

exactly and if a person does not have faith in Jesus, then that person is no longer saved because only when we have faith in Christ, abide in Christ, that person is an apostate, they have left the faith and are no longer saved. they once belonged and now they don't.

 

[Mysteryman]

Oh, but Jesus was! one of the promises of God. Hebrews 6, and Galtians 5, are both speaking of Christ. In general the statement "falling away" is not specific, and can apply to disbelief in the rapture, or Christ. But in general it is used in the scripture, of falling away from the faith in Jesus.

exactly and if a person does not have faith in Jesus, then that person is no longer saved because only when we have faith in Christ, abide in Christ, that person is an apostate, they have left the faith and are no longer saved. they once belonged and now they don't.

You can not loose your salvation ! But you can loose rewards and crowns !

You can not loose a promise of God, but you can fall away from the promises. This is when you will either loose rewards or crowns. < This is also a promise of God !

 

[jasoncran]

Oh, but Jesus was! one of the promises of God. Hebrews 6, and Galtians 5, are both speaking of Christ. In general the statement "falling away" is not specific, and can apply to disbelief in the rapture, or Christ. But in general it is used in the scripture, of falling away from the faith in Jesus.

exactly and if a person does not have faith in Jesus, then that person is no longer saved because only when we have faith in Christ, abide in Christ, that person is an apostate, they have left the faith and are no longer saved. they once belonged and now they don't.

question if it's lost then can you get it back?

also what if you die in sin, no matter how small or large?
i like to use this one.
you speed and its raining and you die in accident? where's your soul, heaven or hell? you didnt repent.
speeding is sinning as its breaking the law.

 

[samuel]

Perseverance of the Saints, and OSAS differ slightly in interpretation. One is not quite the same as the other.

In general the scriptures speak of the security, and perseverance of the believer. But since the Bible does not lie, or contradict itself. There are just to many mentions of a departure from the faith, to ignore the possibility that it does exist, in certain circumstances.

 

[DarcyLu]

Oh, but Jesus was! one of the promises of God. Hebrews 6, and Galtians 5, are both speaking of Christ. In general the statement "falling away" is not specific, and can apply to disbelief in the rapture, or Christ. But in general it is used in the scripture, of falling away from the faith in Jesus.

exactly and if a person does not have faith in Jesus, then that person is no longer saved because only when we have faith in Christ, abide in Christ, that person is an apostate, they have left the faith and are no longer saved. they once belonged and now they don't.

question if it's lost then can you get it back?

also what if you die in sin, no matter how small or large?
i like to use this one.
you speed and its raining and you die in accident? where's your soul, heaven or hell? you didnt repent.
speeding is sinning as its breaking the law.

jason you make me laugh, you always ask really hard questions.
we've had this conversation before i recall and we always use Hebrews 6 and we have pretty much covered all the bases with that one, but i honestly, honestly believe that it is a hard thing to do, that when a person is truly saved, yes, they can lose their salvation, but it's not easy as God does convict us. a falling away is not a simple sin, it's a complete rejection of our belief in Jesus, a rejection of the faith.
if you went out one night, went to a dinner party, told a lie, left the restaurant and died in an accident - no, i don't think you would go to hell - yet that is my opinion. lol