Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

[truthlover]

Archangel_300,

Have you been following the story of the many, maybe even millions, of Muslims being saved through dreams and visions? INSIDE THE REVOLUTION by Joel Rosenberg reports. Also, the NDEA researcher, Raymond Moody, reports that when Muslims have NDEA's, they meet Jesus, not Muhammed.

What you say is true, but the Lord has ways to save those who, in response to the spirit stirring within, choose life. Of couse, the chances of their salvation go up when the true gospel is preached to them by "workers thrust out into the harvest."

So, I don't believe that it is wise to limit how the Lord goes about saving the lost. Have you not noted how often He takes a mature saint and sticks them in a sickbed or prison, where all they can do with the gospel is pray it into the hearts of the lost?

Not, I believe, God's favorite way of working, but I agree with Chesterton's quote, "It's not that Christianity has been tried and found wanting, but that it has been found difficult and never tried." Truth be told, I know of not a single person who, by biblical standards, is prepared to actually preach the gospel of the kingdom. Not one! For one thing, they would have to be ready to teach new disciples "all things whatsoever" Jesus commanded His original 12. Whe even knows what that is, or means? Bill Gothard gets closest, on that measure.

 

[archangel_300]

Archangel_300,

Have you been following the story of the many, maybe even millions, of Muslims being saved through dreams and visions? INSIDE THE REVOLUTION by Joel Rosenberg reports. Also, the NDEA researcher, Raymond Moody, reports that when Muslims have NDEA's, they meet Jesus, not Muhammed.

What you say is true, but the Lord has ways to save those who, in response to the spirit stirring within, choose life. Of couse, the chances of their salvation go up when the true gospel is preached to them by "workers thrust out into the harvest."

So, I don't believe that it is wise to limit how the Lord goes about saving the lost. Have you not noted how often He takes a mature saint and sticks them in a sickbed or prison, where all they can do with the gospel is pray it into the hearts of the lost?

Not, I believe, God's favorite way of working, but I agree with Chesterton's quote, "It's not that Christianity has been tried and found wanting, but that it has been found difficult and never tried." Truth be told, I know of not a single person who, by biblical standards, is prepared to actually preach the gospel of the kingdom. Not one! For one thing, they would have to be ready to teach new disciples "all things whatsoever" Jesus commanded His original 12. Whe even knows what that is, or means? Bill Gothard gets closest, on that measure.

I'm kind of confused, why is it that people are so quick to believe things that may be counterfeit?
Someone states they had a vision of Jesus and they automatically assume they authentically met Christ. Did these muslims really meet Jesus just because they saw a vision of Jesus and not Muhammed? How do you know this is true?

Galatians 1:8
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

Perhaps people do have visions of Christ but we should not be quick to say that all of them are really Christ. I can't make a judgment about what you described yet but it seems to fly a bit contrary to why Christ has us preach the gospel in the first place. The gospel is the primary means by which God saves mankind... could He accomplish this through other means? Not sure if He does...

Remember that it is not mankind who saves people through the preaching of the gospel. It is God who does the saving. God can take a little child and use him/her as witness to their parents. The gospel although not perfectly preached by a little child can cause parents to draw closer so that God opens the door of opportunity so that they come to Christ. Each believer is called to be minister of the gospel, they may plant seeds that are small and seeds that are great but God causes the seeds to grow no matter if the gospel has been perfectly preached.

Isaiah 55:11
So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

 

[truthlover]

Archangel, You posted,

I'm kind of confused, why is it that people are so quick to believe things that may be counterfeit?
Someone states they had a vision of Jesus and they automatically assume they authentically met Christ. Did these muslims really meet Jesus just because they saw a vision of Jesus and not Muhammed? How do you know this is true?


Good questions, my favorite kinds! First, Joel Rosenberg comes across as a trustworthy authority, so I give him my attention. Second, my own meditations and prayers to know the true gospel have produced something quite different from what is usually preached. Not wanting Paul's curse, I've taken great pains (spent a lot of time, paid a lot of attention, invested much treasue "buying the truth" from God). to get this right. I was greatly motivated by the lack of "fruit that remains" from conventional gospels. Third, the Muslims Rosenberg meets are at great risk, both from Muslim persecution, and from stumbling over conventional Christians. They are being very discrete. Fourth, I have prayed for a decade for this to happen, along the lines of "thrust workers into the harvest," workers equipped with the gospel of Matthew 28. That God sent angels was not what I expected, but when I heard the report, the Spirit encouraged me with a familiar "This is an answer to your prayer." Fifth, the gospel they get in these visions is Matthew 28. Grace is something that is a means to effective discipleship, not the end of their salvation.

Of course, I am looking for further confirmation, mainly in the form of their praying effectively for "a quiet and peaceful life in all godliness and dignity" in Iran. But, the whole report is most encourageing. Check it out, you won't be sorry!

 

[paulr1025]

A person is NOT able to "lose" their salvation, as "salvation" itself is NOT an event but a process that culminates at the end of a person's life.

1Pe 1:9 receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls.

The message (that is everything that has to do with the cross) is foolishness to those who are "perishing" (Greek word for becoming appolomee, or appolyon, otherwise known as anti-christ) but to those of us who are BEING saved (transliteration for Yeshua) it is the power or "dunamis" (Greek word from which we derived the word "dynamite") of God (YHVH)

As another poster pointed out;
Heb 10:26 IF (the most unrealized word in the bible) "we" go on (practice or continue in "iniquity") sinning willfully, after we "received" (Greek for grasped or beheld) the truth, (God's right and man's wrong 100% about everything) there remains NO sacrifice for sin.

Unbelief is evidenced by "disobedience" and so it is also called WITCHCRAFT.
Samuel said to Saul; Does God want your sacrifices? No, He wants you to obey Him.

Modern Christianity promulgates a doctrine that says; "say the prayer and do your best."
Yet, anything we DO is counted as NOTHING in the sight of the Almighty God.

We are to be only "skin suits" for Christ, just as Jesus of Nazareth was.

That is why the bible says; Present your bodies a "living sacrifice"...

Jesus said; Whoever "hears" these sayings of Mine and "does them".

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

It all comes down to one word.... Love
Not love as we've come to understand it, but Love as God has ordained it.
Agape, contrary to popular belief doesn't mean unconditional affection!

Agape, unlike "fileho" is the "deliberate ascent of the "will" to DO the Word of God no matter how we or anyone else "feels" about it. HENCE, NOT MY WILL, BUT THY WILL!
Either God's Word is the final authority or it's NOT, and if it is (IT IS) then i don't care if it's your pastor, your mom, or an angel telling you their opinion of the Word of God, if it waters down the Word of God or makes the simplicity of it complicated it is the spirit of anti-christ...

Keep this in mind; the serpent did NOT look out of place in the garden, did it?

Look, Peter was very well meaning when he said to Jesus;
Mat 16:22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!"

We all know how that turned out.

It must be Christ working through us, and that will only happen when "we" "take the kingdom by force".
Matt 11:12 is carried out by our willingness to "deny self" and take up our cross daily...
Anyone who thinks they are following Jesus without first qualifying by His terms from His own mouth, is being a hearer of the Word only and deceiving themselves!

Faith it a whole other conversation, as it too is NOT ethereal or "grasping of the wind" as it is preached today.
Without faith it is impossible to please God, yet Enoch had this testimony, "He pleased God".
What's interesting about Enoch is that he "walked with God" and according to Amos 3:3 Can two "walk together" unless they are agreed?
Will that which is spirit ever agree with that which is flesh?
Of course NOT, because as we know they are constantly warring with one another, so we know Enoch had to agree with God that He was 100% right about everything.
Shield of faith quenches fire darts, and that is because as Paul said "Let your CONDUCT be worthy of your calling"
If someone is casting accusations at you and they have NO MERIT, they don't affect you, do they?
Now, if the same accusations are being cast and you know they're true, they sting and knock you down, don't they?
Of course they do!
Christ IN "us" will never sin, because He lives to do one thing ONLY, PLEASE THE FATHER!

Faith of "mustard seed" (sinape in Greek, meaning sting or hurt) as it hurts the flesh to walk in the spirit and you better believe you'll feel the sting of denying your flesh.
THAT IS ACTIVE FAITH!

WANT TO SEE MOUNTAINS MOVE, DIE TO SELF... FOR REAL!!

Men who struggle with lust, LOOK AWAY! Feel the sting of denying your flesh and you'll also feel the Spirit grow inside you!
Women who just can't stop letting their emotions dictate their actions.
Do what the Word of God says and you too will feel the Spirit grow inside you.
Do you NOT know what Jesus meant when He said;
Unless you "receive" the kingdom of God as a "little child" you will by NO means enter it?

Do you NOT remember that our conversation with Nicodemus made it clear we cannot become babies again?
How was Christ given. Isa 9 says as a Child. Mary was first to receive the Christ Child and her response was as ours must be.
Luke 1:38 Let it be to me according to Your Word!
We must take God on God's terms.
Look now at Acts 1:8 in conjunction with Luke 1:35
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

Remember there is ONLY One begotten Son of God (Christ)
Act 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Jhn 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Here's the kicker folks.
Isa 28:20 For the bed is too short to stretch out on, And the covering so narrow that one cannot wrap himself in it.

The bed is for the Child as is the covering.
It's NOT for you big man know it all!
When we receive the Christ as He was given A CHILD, we realize much like any pregnant woman, there are things i used to do, that i can NO LONGER do.
My plans are NO LONGER important, as it is NOW all about the Child within me!
JTB said; Joh 3:30 He must increase, but i must decrease!
Think back now to the beginning.
God separated the Light from the darkness and decided it was GOOD!
Just as John said "The darkness could NOT comprehend the LIGHT"

i'm gonna end this NOW but i welcome any questions as well as SCRIPTURAL rebuttal.
i could have posted my opinion, but as i've refrained from doing so, and only provided the Word of God, i'd appreciate the same in return, as your opinion means as much as mine, ZERO!
God's Word is NOT open for opinion, it is LIFE and the INSTRUCTION BOOK TO LIFE, regardless how much today's "respected teachers" continue to water it down in attempts to "mold God" into their image.

Isa 29:16 Surely you have things turned around! Shall the potter be esteemed as the clay; For shall the thing made say of him who made it, "He did not make me"? Or shall the thing formed say of him who formed it, "He has no understanding"?

i LOVE THAT THERE ARE NO "LOOPHOLES" IN CHRIST!
Nevertheless, the foundation of God stands having this seal; God knows who are His and let everyone who names the Name of Christ, depart from iniquity (practicing the same sinful behavior willfully)

Agape,

paul


Grace + Truth = AGAPE

 

[truthlover]

Brother Paul,

Much to consider in meditation, but the good news is your evident hope and fervor in seeking God's heart!

I sense the Lord wanting me to amen and magnify this,

It all comes down to one word.... Love
Not love as we've come to understand it, but Love as God has ordained it.
Agape, contrary to popular belief doesn't mean unconditional affection!


"All liars have their part in the lake of fire" But "If anyone says that they know the Lord, but do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the truth is not in them." And, "This is love, that we keep His commandments."

A liar can testify all day about their faith, but they are not believed, even in heaven. Even a liar that has convinced themselves, who is deluded about their own faith, ends up crying "Lord, Lord!" as God sends them to Hell and the lake of fire. Can we backslide into this state? The possibility scripturally is so great that I'm not going to neglect or ignore the commandments, just because I once seemed determined to do good. If I quit, was I lying when I first believed?

As to what "keep" means, and what "commandments" refers to, I seek God, and encourage others to ask Him what this means. I personally hear that the scriptures are refering to the "all things whatsoever I have commanded you" of Matt 28:20. The commands of Jesus to His disciples. "Keep" means listen to God tell me what I must do to obey this commandment.

Serious stuff, for many are called but few are chosen. Only a few find the narrow gate. The usual gospel that many accept, can it be the true gospel? What do people with "Jesus in their hearts" know about what He commanded His disciples?

 

[paulr1025]

Brother Paul,

Much to consider in meditation, but the good news is your evident hope and fervor in seeking God's heart!

I sense the Lord wanting me to amen and magnify this,

It all comes down to one word.... Love
Not love as we've come to understand it, but Love as God has ordained it.
Agape, contrary to popular belief doesn't mean unconditional affection!


"All liars have their part in the lake of fire" But "If anyone says that they know the Lord, but do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the truth is not in them." And, "This is love, that we keep His commandments."

Amen, any other teaching is apostate and is NOT mindful of the things of God, but of man.

Agape,

paul


Grace + Truth = AGAPE

 

[truthlover]

Paul,

Here's a question for you. Where in the world at the present time is holiness most manifest? What assembly, what nation, what peoples? Who is the most fruitful representative, the brightest light of the world, the saltiest salt?

Any insights?

 

[paulr1025]

Psa 15:1 A Psalm of David. LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
Psa 15:2 He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
Psa 15:3 He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.
Psa 15:4 In whose eyes a vile person is contemned; but he honoureth them that fear the LORD. He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not.
Psa 15:5 He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that DOETH these things shall never be moved.

Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD REQUIRE of thee, but to DO justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Amo 3:3 Can two WALK together unless they are agreed?

FEAR THE LORD AND DEPART FROM EVIL, AGREE WITH HIM BY OBEYING HIS WORD, AND BY BEING WILLING TO CONFESS TO ANOTHER WHEN YOU FAIL AT OBEYING HIS WORD!

ONLY IN "DOING" SO WILL ANYONE BE COUNTED WORTHY TO "ESCAPE ALL" THESE THINGS!

Self control by the "mustard seed" [sinape] in Greek (sting or hurt) of FAITH (ability to deny self and DO the Word of God) regardless how we or anyone else "feels" about it.

Agape,

paul


Grace + Truth = AGAPE

 

[truthlover]

Paul,

Yes, these are the fieldmarks all right! But where can this wonderful species be found? ORU? Rose Creek Village? Bill Gothard's ministry? Where have you looked? What have you found? Do you exercise the discernment of Malachi 3:18? You can e-mail me directly, if you want to be preserved by discretion.

 

[LaCrum]

I'm kind of confused, why is it that people are so quick to believe things that may be counterfeit?
Someone states they had a vision of Jesus and they automatically assume they authentically met Christ. Did these muslims really meet Jesus just because they saw a vision of Jesus and not Muhammed? How do you know this is true?

The best way to jdge that would be how they act afterwards. No one who comes face to face with Jesus like that and remain unchanged.

My Mom's spirtual mentor growing up had an alcoholic and controlling husband for decades. He was admitted to the hospital because his body was failing him from years of alcohol abuse and he knew he was at death's door. At that moment he repented at Jesus appeared. He was healed and lived the rest of his life a completely different person.

 

[paulr1025]

Let's start with the "who"...

There is a "people" who God has set apart as a "special and peculiar" people, yet there is only one Christ!

What was it that made John the Baptist greater than any other man born of women?

Looking at Jewish history, it was unheard of for someone to name a male child (1st male child) anything other than the name of the father.
Zacharias couldn't name John (YHVH the gracious Giver) because John had been given by YHVH, as Elizabeth was barren.
Much as Sarai/Sarah and Rachel were barren.
Abraham was well beyond the age of bearing children, as was Sarai/Sarah

What made John "greater" was the fact that as the forebearer, or first witness of Christ, he was given of YHVH to the world as a "light", but not the Light.
This is why John as a "babe" leaped in his mother (Elizabeth) womb upon the arrival of Jesus the Light.
As Spirit always recognizes Spirit.
The problem with much of modern Christianity is it works from the premise of adults becoming children which as the conversation between Nicodemus and Jesus proved is NOT POSSIBLE.
However, as Christ is given as a "Child" first prophesied, then realized in Mary's womb.

Our job or "calling" if you will, is to nurture and feed the Spirit within us, by feeding it the Word of God, as the Christ IN me and in all those who nurture the Spirit within them by a constant feeding of the Word of God is this "peculiar" people..

The seed of Abraham as is written, the Son of David as is written, all culminated in the "Book of Life" which is the "Book of genealogy of Jesus Christ, as is written in Matt 1:1
We are being told that the will of God is to take on the Name, Character and Authority of Christ.
That is why we see the delineation in Acts 10:38 between Jesus of Nazareth and Jesus Christ, as it is pointed out the "anointing" on Jesus is the Christ.
Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power (dunamis), Who went about "doing good" and healing all those who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. (Emmanuel)
Now, had Jesus NOT said; Greater things than this will you do, we would NOT have the responsibility of allowing for Christ IN us to do the living as we DIE TO SELF.
But, it is God's design that as John 3:30 says; He increase, but we decrease.
More Christ, less me.

The seed is the light that was given to all men, but NOT all men choose to be BORN OF GOD.
Mary said; Let it be to me according to Your Word (God's Word as delivered by the angel)
That is to "receive" Him [paralambano] meaning to receive near, be host to, or acknowledge RELATION.
The other receive (as many as received Him) is lambano and is equal to a handshake or a hug.
Those who host Him are in RELATION to Him and have eternal life.

Read Acts 10:38 and put your name in place of Jesus of Nazareth and you will see God's plan for His most precious creation, man.
How God "anointed" (Christed) Paul of California with the Holy Spirit and with power (dunamis-see 2 Tim 1:7), who went about "doing good" (His doing through our presented bodies) and healing all those oppressed by the devil, for God is with me. (Emmanuel)

This is a short synopsis, as many won't read long posts.
Will be glad to elaborate though!

Agape,

paul


Grace + Truth = AGAPE

 

[truthlover]

Paul,
I notice on another of your posts that you recommend Chuck Missler. Is he a good example of holiness? Good fruit?

From your post, I get the impression though that you are stressing both the hidden, "within you" part of the kingdom, and the "Christ in you, the hope of glory" idea. That is, there is no geographis, cultural, national, or religious answer to the question, "Where and with whom would it be best to have fellowship, in the pursuit of holiness?" Maybe a personal answer, though. I actually think I meant the question to be personal. But still ...Bill Gothard's teaching materials, though of course not perfect, contain more good than any other I have found published. "Published" though may be a fatal flaw.

The world will know us by our love for one another, but being informed and connected about each other is not God's will? Rather, we are to choose the pursuit of holiness, die to self, be reborn as the Lord in us, which is perfect holiness, and live believing that where we are is as good as it gets? Have the revelations you have gotten manifested in any substantial way? (As in, "faith is the substance of things hoped for.")

 

[paulr1025]

Have the revelations you have gotten manifested in any substantial way? (As in, "faith is the substance of things hoped for.")

Absolutely, and the hardest part of "dying to self" is being willing to "live out" God's Word, especially when it is going to hurt someone's "feelings".

But, feelings that dictate action, are what caused Eve to take of the forbidden fruit and there is a lesson there especially for men, to BE ALERT and ATTENTIVE to what their wives are partaking of.
The bible says that Adam was "with her" in the garden, and i don't know if he was "bird watching" or what, but i do know that Adam had the responsibility to take the fruit out of her hand and throw it away, beat the serpent's head in with the nearest garden implement, or at the very least, remind her what God (The Word or "voice" of YHVH) said concerning the tree.
Many times, our wives are NOT interested in being washed by the water of the Word, but that does NOT relieve man of the responsibility.
When we look at how Jesus "laid His life down" for the church, we see His willingness to DO what He specifically said He came to DO.
Jhn 18:37 Pilate therefore said to Him, "Are You a king then?" Jesus answered, "You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should TESTIFY to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."

It was out of Agape that He whipped the money changers in the temple, as they knew the scriptures, but chose to misuse the temple.
It was out of Agape that Jesus called Peter satan to his face, because he was NOT mindful of the things of God.
When we read in Heb 12:2 "He endured the cross, despising the shame" and why He did so, we understand the cost of "testifying to the truth" and the evidence of doing so.

Gal 5:22 makes clear the "order" in which the glory of Christ IN us will be made "manifest"
If i may explain:
The fruit of the Spirit is Agape, Joy, Peace.. To begin with.
1 John 5:3 This is the Agape of God, that we obey His commands and His commands are not a burden.
So, the only way we Agape God is by obeying His commands.
What are His commands?
There is only one, AGAPE!
Agape, unlike fileho is the deliberate ascent of the will, to DO THE WORD, regardless of how "we" or anyone else "feels" about it.
As Jesus said; "Not My will, but Thy will"
Jesus was "willing" to be rejected for the sake of the Agape of God. ARE WE?
In our homes, with our wives and children? Our "friends" and co-workers? Within the "church", are we willing to honestly, rebuke, reprove, exhort and encourage one another.
In Leviticus God says;
Lev 19:17 'You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him.

Remember, it was Jesus who said to the one who had been sinned against;
Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
Unfortunately, that has been done away with in most of modern Christianity and replaced with gossip and bitterness, which is why the warning was given in the first place!
Women being pre-disposed to both deception and usurping (Gen 3), because of FALSE TEACHING by well meaning MEN, who have made themselves teachers based on what other well meaning men have taught them.
Perilous times are here now, and there are so few true shepherds, the flock is dying for lack of food.
FAMINE IN THE LAND!!
Now the other side of Agape is being willing to "confess faults" one to another!
Many will confess faults, but not to the person they've sinned against, which is pretty pointless, as the test of humility is found in the willingness to be transparent and obedient to the Word of God.
That is why Mark 12:29-31 is the litmus for those who "say" they "believe".
The first and greatest commandment or LAW if you prefer, is actually similar to the LAW of gravity.
Hear oh Israel YHVH our Elohim, YHVH is One.
This is the same thing Paul later says in; Is Christ divided? THE ANSWER IS A RESOUNDING NO!
Then the 1st Commandment of Agape. Obey the Word of God with ALL your heart, soul, mind and strength. This is exactly what is being said in Proverbs 3:5-8 "baktah" TRUST (run quickly for refuge) THIS IS NOT A PASSIVE ETHEREAL believing or "grasping for the wind" that is vanity spoken of in Ecc, but a day by day, moment by moment choice. I.E. Taking each thought captive to the obedience of Christ! Or as Joshua said; Choose this DAY, this THOUGHT, who you will serve!"
Then we read and hopefully understand;
The second is "like" the first. In other words, it is dependent of the first being lived out!
Agape your neighbor as yourself.
Here's the LAW concerning neighbors in a nutshell.
Bear one another's burdens and so fulfill the LAW of Christ (being anointed)
In order for ALL to bear, ALL must also share, so we're back to transparency and confessing faults one to another, as there is no sin or temptation that is NOT common to man!
God has provided escape in accountability, but "we" must be willing to be accountable, as pride comes before destruction, and God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.
What is so awesome in God's perfect plan is that we've ALL received of His fullness, and grace for grace. Of course now we have to look at "grace for grace" and the misinterpretation that it has brought.
For some reason, translators decided it best to always use "karis" as grace, rather than gratitude, even in this case, but if we have saved unto good works that we should walk in them, it should be obvious that our "walking in them" is gratitude for the grace He's bestowed on us!
Again; This is the Agape of God, that we obey His commandments AGAPE and AGAPE, and His commandments are NOT burdensome.

So, the fruit of the Spirit is, Agape (to God by obedience and to man by being willing to confess our disobedience to men)
Joy is the result of obedience, and we see that premise in Phil 4:13 "I can do ALL things through Christ (IN me) who gives me strength. (Neh 8:10 shows us that it is only the Joy of YHVH that is our strength) and to explain how exactly this works is impossible, as Joy is "inexpressible" and full of God's glory or (shining Light) if you will, that is the manifestation of obeying the Word of God.
In any case, for the Joy set before Him, He "endured" OBEYED (Agaped the Father) by His obedience continuously, even when it went against the "will of the flesh", As Jesus said; If possible, let this cup pass from Me. (and we know He also said (You will indeed drink of the cup I drink), nevertheless, NOT MY WILL BUT THY WILL.
All of this to be seated, RESTING, Peace at the right hand of God.
So, we once again see how orderly God has remained, from the 6 day creation unto this very day.
Agape, Joy, Peace... Then it is His patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, and faithfulness that "we" are responsible to keep under His command by our daily dying to self (Self control)
Not by might, nor by power, but by His Spirit of Grace and Truth.
The fullness of God IN "us" the anointing, baptism if you will that He was baptized with!
The Holy Spirit and with fire.
There is still a "rest" (sabbatismos) SABBATH that remains for God's people, (explained in the last post) Heb 4:9 and that at the end of our FAITH (agreement with God that He's 100% right and man 100% wrong, the salvation of our souls.

If you'd like i will continue from this point, but it really is the simplicity that is Christ.
But to be realized, we must DIE TO SELF DAILY and remember that He said; My FOOD is to DO THE WILL of the Father!
If we're NOT doers of the Word, it is NOT Christ living, but us and we therefore by our own witness against ourselves are not part of Him, but are walking in the futility of our own choices, and there is NO excuse, as the Word is clear in saying; You need NO MAN to teach you, the Holy Spirit will teach you ALL THINGS and lead you into ALL TRUTH.
If we refuse to be led, and instead go by what the man behind the pulpit says, even though in many if not most cases is contrary to the Word of God, we do NOT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE!

Regarding the "feel good" gospel and lack of responsibility to exhort, rebuke, reprove and encourage being promulgated today....

Pro 24:12 If you say, "Surely we did not know this," Does not He who weighs the hearts consider it? He who keeps your soul, does He not know it? And will He not render to each man according to his deeds?

Agape,

paul


Grace + Truth = AGAPE

 

[truthlover]

Paul,

Who can you name that is doing this well, if not best?

 

[paulr1025]

Here's the point, as it seems you're trying to draw something out of me, that is NOT there to be drawn friend.
Why does Rachel weep for her children, because they are NO MORE?

Rachel's children are both "Christophone's" That is to say they are foretastes of Christ, by name and by virtue of their history.
Benjamin- Son of the right hand
Joseph Let YHVH add (He must increase, i must decrease)

Psalms 8:2 Out of the mouths of babes and nursing infants, You have ordained strength!
Woe to those who are pregnant and nursing babes in those days!

Ecc 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

It is the Christ Child that is the Spirit of God given to every person coming into the world, as the Light of the world. (the smoldering flax) that He will NOT extinguish.
Because it's Him.
People are running around "trying" to "do good", rather than DIE TO SELF, and allow Christ to "do good" as He always has and always will.
Each man is born with eternity in mind, so you see Bill Gates, Ted Turner and the likes, trying to "do good" for humanity, yet good intentions mean nothing, as Peter showed us.
When he so full of good intentions and being well meaning said to Jesus, "Far be it from You Lord that you should suffer and die this way."

Rachel weeps for her children, for the same reason each one who refuses to DIE TO SELF will weep.
The Child will return from where He came, and those who have NOT allowed for their "Light" to shine (glory) will NOT be translated at that time, but will be destroyed in the lake of fire that burns forever and ever.
Well meaning pastors and teachers preaching to ask forgiveness of sins and say a prayer, when God is looking for repentance and obedience.
Men saying that after you say a prayer your name is written in the Book of Life, when in actuality it was written there before the foundation of the earth and the choice one makes to "believe" (that is Trust by humble obedience) will NOT be blotted out.
Notice: Nowhere in the bible does it say "ask for forgiveness".
It says; Repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached.
In fact, we are commanded to "forgive" in the same manner in which we've been forgiven, and if we don't, we are witnesses against ourselves that we put ourselves on God's throne.

So, who is doing this... NO MORE THAN 144,000 WORLDWIDE, of that i can assure you!

Most of modern Christianity is apostate today!

If the "righteous"(HOT) is scarcely being saved, where do the ungodly (LUKEWARM) and the sinner (COLD) appear?

i am a voice, crying in the wilderness, a man told to write the vision and make it plain so that others may run with it.
PREPARE YE THE WAY OF YHVH!

Agape,

paul


Grace + Truth = AGAPE

 

[glorydaz]

So, who is doing this... NO MORE THAN 144,000 WORLDWIDE, of that i can assure you!

Most of modern Christianity is apostate today! Grace + Truth = AGAPE

I believe you're wrong about the numbers, brother, but you do preach a good word. There are many saints all over the world that do deny self and follow the Lord. He alone sees into the heart, and not all walk the perfect road of obedience. Whether we return 10 fold or 100 fold, the Lord is faithful to save and to keep us until He raises us into glory.

 

[paulr1025]

Hi glorydaz,

If i may.
It is NOT being perfect or "sinless" that is seen by God as obedience, but being humble in obedience to the Word, both to DO the Word and our willingness to admit to other "people" when we fail at DOING the Word.
Because it is only in humility do we allow for Christ to increase IN us, and if Christ is NOT increasing IN us, it is "us" who are doing the living, so the imperative of being crucified with Christ is NOT a reality in those who live in iniquitous pride.

Elijah was told that there were 7000 who had NOT bowed the knee to baal, at a time when the population was nothing in comparison to what it is today.

The difficult part for most people isn't DOING the "good deeds", but because pride or false humility is the catalyst for the "deeds" they do, it is NOT Christ IN them doing the good deeds, so it amounts to NOTHING.
Or, worse than nothing, filthy menstrual cloths.

Considering the amount of apostate teaching that permeates church buildings today, i think 144,000 is a fair observation, and if it were more, revival would already be in this land!

Remember, these "follow the LAMB" wherever He goes, and the only way anyone is even able to "follow the LAMB, is by first DENYING SELF, TAKING UP THEIR CROSS DAILY, then and only then has one met the criteria for following the LAMB.
In doing so, they have kept themselves from women (false doctrine or the teachings of man) and are virgins, as Mary was when she received Christ "By His Word" Luk 1:38 Behold the maid servant of YHVH, let it be to me according to Your Word."
These have NOT received Christ by means of man's teaching, but by revelation through the Word of God.
i tried to follow man's teaching, but the Word of God made so much sense apart from it, that i find myself "exhorting" my own pastor, to which he normally has a rebuttal based on what he read that someone wrote about an exegesis of someone's interpretation of what they believed the Word of God to actually mean.
The fact is, You need NO man to teach you, and when the Spirit comes, He will guide you into all truth.
IF YOU'LL BE LED!

What i've found to be fact is that those who have peace, are IN the will of God.
i'm not referring to those who are complacent, or compromised, but those who genuinely have peace that is beyond the understanding of man, regardless of the circumstances.
This is because of the JOY of YHVH that is their strength, that has come from their humble obedience to the Word of God.
We see this first in Jesus, and that is why we read; Hbr 12:1 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight UNCONFESSED SIN, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
THEN WE SEE THE MANNER IN WHICH WE ARE TO DO THIS VERY THING.
Hbr 12:2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith (AGREEMENT WITH GOD'S WORD), who for the joy that was set before Him endured (OBEYED THE FATHER) the cross, despising the shame (REJECTION PERSECUTION, ETC), and has sat down (RESTING AT PEACE) at the right hand of the throne of God.
Agape, Joy, Peace......
Let everything be done with decency and IN order!
Just as He's always done everything with decency and IN order, from creation unto today!
Those who reckon themselves dead, have ceased from their labor, and it is to be Christ IN them doing the good deeds now, through their bodies presented as a living sacrifice.
So, it is His patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness and faithfulness, and our responsibility is to keep the old man "the older" down, so the New Spirit Man, "the younger" is being served and not serving.
This was foretold in Rebekah when God said; There are two nations in your womb (deceiver, later changed to prince of God) REGENERATION! and esau (who sold everything spiritual to satisfy the flesh) and as we know, God hated esau in the womb, just as He hates sin.
As Paul said; I find another law present in my members!

You see friend, this is the light given to every person coming into the world in Joh 1:9 but only some receive (paralambano) Him "meaning to be host to or acknowledge relation" But as many as (lambano) receive in the sense of a handshake or a hug, gave He the privilege of BECOMING Sons of God, or a closer more accurate description would be the Son of God would be IN him who TRUSTS (believes) but that is a whole other post.
Because again, Christ is NOT divided, and it is only Christ IN us who cries out Abba, as "we" are only tag alongs when the Spirit is shone through us.
When God looks at us, at me and at you, He's NOT looking to see us, but Christ IN us, to Whom He says;
Behold My Beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased!
That is why we must take the kingdom by force, subduing our flesh for the sake of Christ increasing IN us, as He is the Light of the world, and it is only "self" or (ego) Greek that is the basket so many are content to cover the Light with, yet proclaim with a loud voice, I AM THE LORD'S!

If you'd like me to go on, i will.

Agape,

paul


Grace + Truth = AGAPE

 

[glorydaz]

Hi glorydaz,

If i may.
It is NOT being perfect or "sinless" that is seen by God as obedience, but being humble in obedience to the Word, both to DO the Word and our willingness to admit to other "people" when we fail at DOING the Word.
Because it is only in humility do we allow for Christ to increase IN us, and if Christ is NOT increasing IN us, it is "us" who are doing the living, so the imperative of being crucified with Christ is NOT a reality in those who live in iniquitous pride.

The difficult part for most people isn't DOING the "good deeds", but because pride or false humility is the catalyst for the "deeds" they do, it is NOT Christ IN them doing the good deeds, so it amounts to NOTHING.

These have NOT received Christ by means of man's teaching, but by revelation through the Word of God.
i tried to follow man's teaching, but the Word of God made so much sense apart from it, that i find myself "exhorting" my own pastor, to which he normally has a rebuttal based on what he read that someone wrote about an exegesis of someone's interpretation of what they believed the Word of God to actually mean.
The fact is, You need NO man to teach you, and when the Spirit comes, He will guide you into all truth.
IF YOU'LL BE LED!

Those who reckon themselves dead, have ceased from their labor, and it is to be Christ IN them doing the good deeds now, through their bodies presented as a living sacrifice.
So, it is His patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness and faithfulness, and our responsibility is to keep the old man "the older" down, so the New Spirit Man, "the younger" is being served and not serving.

When God looks at us, at me and at you, He's NOT looking to see us, but Christ IN us, to Whom He says;
Behold My Beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased!

I just wanted to highlight these few portions, because they need to be highlighted. Humility vs. pride. Surrender vs. "works". Beware of the doctrines of men, and our righteousness before God through Christ. I gotta say, you have the emphasis on the important stuff.

 

[truthlover]

Paul,

I confirm with Glorydaz that you are hearing clearly God's heart for these times. I also find intriguing your lack of a response to my search for any righteous ones in the world today. !44,000 you say, but where are they? Can they be righteous, and have their light under a bushel?

For the record, prophetically (that is, in part, up for judgement by others), I and some others hear that there remain only 30,000 in the US, but many more in the poorer nations. God is calling those righteous in America who can or will to move to certain states where they will make up the one-in-a-thousand needed for effective intercession. Others are moving on home, being taken out before the judgement falls. Some are backsliding, others are being saved, but the number of 30,000 in the US is staying fairly constant. Most righteous are in prisons, or nursing homes, poor, or giving beyond titheing. The US is being struck with the rod of iron of Psalm 2, and soon will divide as Russia did, hopefully as peacefully. States with sufficient intercessors will become "joined to the Lord" Zech 2:11, and become Christian nations, even beyond examples such as Switzerland, with even greater blessing and protection.

Angels are preachingthe gospel of the Kingdom to Muslims (see Joel Rosenberg's Inside the Revolution), who are converting at a remarkable rate, but discreetly. Perhaps the 144,000 will come from the Muslims. If Judgement begins with the house of God, and luke-warm believers are vomited out, there is little hope for most US believers.

The 7000 promised Elijah were about one in a thousand, and their prayers caused God to send and empower Elijah. America lacks the 300.000 needed for revival. There are more than that praying, but they are not keeping His commandments, and their prayers are an abomonation to Him. (Prov 28:9)
Hide yourself wisely!

 

[paulr1025]

truthlover,

Thank you for the kind words, and i didn't mean to dismiss your inquiry.
There is definite confirmation in my spirit concerning the number 30,000 and solidifies my belief that as the "pressure" builds through the returning to the Truth of God's Word and the lukewarm are being called exactly that; two things are beginning to occur.
1. Falling away, as men realize dying to self isn't just something Jesus talked about but is necessary for Christ to be revealed IN them, making them by "adoption", "children of God", or because there really is but ONE CHILD, (Christ), part of the "body of Christ" evidenced by Christ obeying the Father through their bodies presented to God as living sacrifices.
2. REVIVAL, for exactly the same reasons cited above.

When everything burns and melts with fervent heat, only Christ and anti-christ will remain, and at the end of that battle, CHRIST HAS ALREADY EMERGED VICTORIOUS!

Then as we know; 1Cr 15:28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself (Christ) will also be subject to Him (YHVH) who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

What so many fail to realize, is IN THE BEGINNING, GOD!
And so it will be at the end of ALL THINGS!

Here's the blessing!
Those of "us" who choose (aihreomai) receive near or be host to (paralambano) NOW, here at such a time as this, will be one day given "NEW BODIES" that are incorruptible, that our "souls" will be placed into, as reward for DEDICATING THIS VAPOR many have been deceived into calling "life" to God for His glory and His plans!

Psalms 37:4 Delight [awnag] Hebrew-be moldable/shapable yourself (Humble yourself DIE TO SELF) in YHVH and He will "give you" the desires you are to have in your thoughts and feelings!
In other words, BE DOERS OF THE WORD, a it is to mold us, shape us, transform us.

Too many fail to understand Isa 29:16 and correlation between Mary's reception of Christ and Isa 28, and i believe that is simply because they TRY to understand the Word of God with their finite, carnal minds, but that which is Spirit is Spirit and that which is flesh, is flesh.
The carnal mind cannot begin to understand the Word of God, but the Spirit of God given to man KNOWS (yada) the very heart of YHVH!

ALL MAN CAN DO IS THE ONE THING HE DAILY REFUSES TO DO!
DIE....
Die to "self" to "ego" to "own will" "carnal understanding" to "my rights" "my wants" MY MY MY MY!
Jesus made it so clear......
I have NOT come to DO MY WILL, but DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER, Who sent Me.

Agape,

paul


Grace + Truth = AGAPE
Joh 1:1 In the begining was the Word and the Word was with God and THE WORD WAS GOD.

1Jo 4:16 And we have known and believed the agape that God has for us. GOD IS AGAPE, and he who abides in agape abides in God, and God in him.

Jhn 1:14 And the WORD became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH.