Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

[DarcyLu]

Perseverance of the Saints, and OSAS differ slightly in interpretation. One is not quite the same as the other.

In general the scriptures speak of the security, and perseverance of the believer. But since the Bible does not lie, or contradict itself. There are just to many mentions of a departure from the faith, to ignore the possibility that it does exist, in certain circumstances.

yes, the scriptures are very clear about this and i think there are many "if" statements, that relate to this as well.
God bless -

 

[faithtransforms]

IMO, OSAS is heresy and it is leading many people to hell who think they are saved. They think they can just go on living in sin and go to heaven. It's simply not true. Maybe some of them aren't saved to begin with, I will conceed that, but some are, and since they think they can't lose their salvation, they do what they want. Sure they may be changed for a time after they get saved, but then they slowly drift back into sin and never come back. If they never repent, they are lost for eternity.

 

[samuel]

Well if then you know speeding is a sin, you should not be doing it. We might die suddenly in any circumstance, with some un-confessed sin, will that condemn us, I think not. But John speaks of a Sin that is unto death, this seems to be pointing to an unforgivable sin, or at least a sin that if unforgiven follows into death. He says that you should not pray for that particular sin, most Bible students agree this is apostasy.

 

[faithtransforms]

120-205 AD Irenaeus "Christ will not die again on behalf of those who now commit sin because death shall no more have dominion over Him.... Therefore we should not be puffed up.... But we should beware lest somehow, after [we have come to] the knowledge of Christ, if we do things displeasing to God, we obtain no further forgiveness of sins but rather be shut out from His kingdom" (Heb. 6:4­6). (Irenaeus, pupil of Polycarp, Against Heresies bk. 4, chap. 27, sec. 2)

This is one of the earliest church fathers on record. Clearly the early church did not believe in eternal security.

 

[Mysteryman]

IMO, OSAS is heresy and it is leading many people to hell who think they are saved. They think they can just go on living in sin and go to heaven. It's simply not true. Maybe some of them aren't saved to begin with, I will conceed that, but some are, and since they think they can't lose their salvation, they do what they want. Sure they may be changed for a time after they get saved, but then they slowly drift back into sin and never come back. If they never repent, they are lost for eternity.

Hi

That I find interesting, because I believe it is heresy to think one can loose their salvation .

The only sin that one can sin, is a sin unto death. All others can be prayed for, and this is why John wrote this in I John 5:16 - 18

 

[jasoncran]

Well if then you know speeding is a sin, you should not be doing it. We might die suddenly in any circumstance, with some un-confessed sin, will that condemn us, I think not. But John speaks of a Sin that is unto death, this seems to be pointing to an unforgivable sin, or at least a sin that if unforgiven follows into death. He says that you should not pray for that particular sin, most Bible students agree this is apostasy.

odd, so then i guess we do have security then as we sin daily.

be honest. alot of christians do speed. i know some that refuse to put any christians logos on thier cars for that reason. i have been ran off the road by speeders that have the fish symbol on their cars.

 

[samuel]

IMO, OSAS is heresy and it is leading many people to hell who think they are saved. They think they can just go on living in sin and go to heaven. It's simply not true. Maybe some of them aren't saved to begin with, I will conceed that, but some are, and since they think they can't lose their salvation, they do what they want. Sure they may be changed for a time after they get saved, but then they slowly drift back into sin and never come back. If they never repent, they are lost for eternity.

OSAS "Once a sinner, always a sinner".

 

[jasoncran]

IMO, OSAS is heresy and it is leading many people to hell who think they are saved. They think they can just go on living in sin and go to heaven. It's simply not true. Maybe some of them aren't saved to begin with, I will conceed that, but some are, and since they think they can't lose their salvation, they do what they want. Sure they may be changed for a time after they get saved, but then they slowly drift back into sin and never come back. If they never repent, they are lost for eternity.

really, you love adrain rogers. what does he preach against sin!
he believes in osas.

he is very much against sin and preaches that. he even states that if you are a sinnin and not a repentin and dont feel any conviction, you aint no a christian.

 

[DarcyLu]

IMO, OSAS is heresy and it is leading many people to hell who think they are saved. They think they can just go on living in sin and go to heaven. It's simply not true. Maybe some of them aren't saved to begin with, I will conceed that, but some are, and since they think they can't lose their salvation, they do what they want. Sure they may be changed for a time after they get saved, but then they slowly drift back into sin and never come back. If they never repent, they are lost for eternity.

OSAS "Once a sinner, always a sinner".

there is a difference between back sliding and actually apostasy though, i know plenty of people who have back slidden, it doesn't mean they are apostates, it just means they need to be brought back. yet an apostate, you can not come back. heb 6 there is no more sacrifices for their sins.

 

[samuel]

odd, so then i guess we do have security then as we sin daily.

be honest. alot of christians do speed. i know some that refuse to put any christians logos on thier cars for that reason. i have been ran off the road by speeders that have the fish symbol on their cars.

Yes, and I once saw a bumper sticker that said "Lord deliver me from your followers". That was on a car that also has a fish on it. Now in some ways I might agree with that statement, but it is questionable as to just how?.

 

[DarcyLu]

odd, so then i guess we do have security then as we sin daily.

be honest. alot of christians do speed. i know some that refuse to put any christians logos on thier cars for that reason. i have been ran off the road by speeders that have the fish symbol on their cars.

i think this is where confusion comes in, it's not that if you sin you will lose your salvation because God promises us that if we confess our sins, He is faithful and will forgive us. we have sin that we do not know about

it is....

the act of falling away, completely rejecting Jesus and what He did for you. yet if you have tons and tons of unconfessed sin, God could harden your heart, and it could cause apostasy.

 

[jasoncran]

but if you havent repented AND YOU KNOW that its sin(ie SPEEDING) and also any other. you have sin willfully.

unless you believe that we dont do that and that we do have an excuse to sin as its all we dont know.

then its willful, you intended to do that and you did it anyway, despite the warning of the h.s.
you harderned your heart there didnt yah

you said no to the lord i want to sin.

 

[samuel]

i think this is where confusion comes in, it's not that if you sin you will lose your salvation because God promises us that if we confess our sins, He is faithful and will forgive us. we have sin that we do not know about

it is....

the act of falling away, completely rejecting Jesus and what He did for you. yet if you have tons and tons of unconfessed sin, God could harden your heart, and it could cause apostasy.

That is what I would call a hit on the nailhead.

 

[faithtransforms]

IMO, OSAS is heresy and it is leading many people to hell who think they are saved. They think they can just go on living in sin and go to heaven. It's simply not true. Maybe some of them aren't saved to begin with, I will conceed that, but some are, and since they think they can't lose their salvation, they do what they want. Sure they may be changed for a time after they get saved, but then they slowly drift back into sin and never come back. If they never repent, they are lost for eternity.

really, you love adrain rogers. what does he preach against sin!
he believes in osas.

he is very much against sin and preaches that. he even states that if you are a sinnin and not a repentin and dont feel any conviction, you aint no a christian.

Just because I love the man, doesn't mean I agree with EVERYTHING he says. Adrian Rogers is one of my very favorites, we just happen to disagree on this issue, bless his soul.

I do agree that there are a lot of people who call themselves Christians who are not saved. But I have known STRONG believers, such as the friend I wrote about (I mean this girl was practically an angel, with a meek and quiet spirit and all manner of spiritual fruit manifested in her life), who got offended, hardened her heart and is now sinning unrepentently. Now I don't know her heart, maybe she does feel bad. But her flesh is ruling over her right now, simple as that. I continue in prayer and faith that she will return to God before it is too late.

 

[DarcyLu]

but if you havent repented AND YOU KNOW that its sin(ie SPEEDING) and also any other. you have sin willfully.

unless you believe that we dont do that and that we do have an excuse to sin as its all we dont know.

then its willful, you intended to do that and you did it anyway, despite the warning of the h.s.
you harderned your heart there didnt yah

you said no to the lord i want to sin.

i agree with Samuel - stop speeding Jason lol!
God is faithful and will forgive us our sins:
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

if we continue in our sin, for instance, someone is saved, backslides back into their sinful lifestyle, does not repent, then it's willful sinning......yet, we as Christians have a way out of sin. God has promised that we would not be tempted more than we can handle, we have an open door (Jesus), where we can escape and not sin.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins

 

[DarcyLu]

IMO, OSAS is heresy and it is leading many people to hell who think they are saved. They think they can just go on living in sin and go to heaven. It's simply not true. Maybe some of them aren't saved to begin with, I will conceed that, but some are, and since they think they can't lose their salvation, they do what they want. Sure they may be changed for a time after they get saved, but then they slowly drift back into sin and never come back. If they never repent, they are lost for eternity.

really, you love adrain rogers. what does he preach against sin!
he believes in osas.

he is very much against sin and preaches that. he even states that if you are a sinnin and not a repentin and dont feel any conviction, you aint no a christian.

Just because I love the man, doesn't mean I agree with EVERYTHING he says. Adrian Rogers is one of my very favorites, we just happen to disagree on this issue, bless his soul.

I do agree that there are a lot of people who call themselves Christians who are not saved. But I have known STRONG believers, such as the friend I wrote about (I mean this girl was practically an angel, with a meek and quiet spirit and all manner of spiritual fruit manifested in her life), who got offended, hardened her heart and is now sinning unrepentently. Now I don't know her heart, maybe she does feel bad. But her flesh is ruling over her right now, simple as that. I continue in prayer and faith that she will return to God before it is too late.

hi faithtransforms,
i will be in agreement with you in prayer for your friend.
God bless -

 

[faithtransforms]

Thank you DarcyLu That means a lot.

 

[jasoncran]

neither do i with agree with you. that listening to diverse types of preaching(doctrines) can be confusing.

many of the guys i listen too believe in osas.

btw i dont speed most of the time
i do speed on the paper route, have too
my speedometer is 5 mph off. i do california stops on the route.

time is money. most delivery guys are in a rush.

most paper carriers do this and so many others.

Re: Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?
by DarcyLu on Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:33 pm

jasoncran wrote:
but if you havent repented AND YOU KNOW that its sin(ie SPEEDING) and also any other. you have sin willfully.

unless you believe that we dont do that and that we do have an excuse to sin as its all we dont know.

then its willful, you intended to do that and you did it anyway, despite the warning of the h.s.
you harderned your heart there didnt yah

you said no to the lord i want to sin.


Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins


again in said situation that was and is willful sin, you know not to do it.you died and by your confession since said person failed to repent he's in hell.

 

[DarcyLu]

neither do i with agree with you. that listening to diverse types of preaching(doctrines) can be confusing.

many of the guys i listen too believe in osas.

btw i dont speed most of the time
i do speed on the paper route, have too
my speedometer is 5 mph off. i do california stops on the route.

time is money. most delivery guys are in a rush.

most paper carriers do this and so many others.

Re: Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?
by DarcyLu on Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:33 pm

jasoncran wrote:
but if you havent repented AND YOU KNOW that its sin(ie SPEEDING) and also any other. you have sin willfully.

unless you believe that we dont do that and that we do have an excuse to sin as its all we dont know.

then its willful, you intended to do that and you did it anyway, despite the warning of the h.s.
you harderned your heart there didnt yah

you said no to the lord i want to sin.


Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins


again in said situation that was and is willful sin, you know not to do it.you died and by your confession since said person failed to repent he's in hell.

when you speed on your route and do the CA stops, do you feel convicted for doing them?

 

[jasoncran]

at times. i dont always stop like that.

you buy papers and most carriers do this all the time .
aint no one out there at 1 am to 5:30 am

that when i throw.we dont get paid by the hour.