Can women teach God's word.

[Cooper]

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Genesis 1:27).

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created" (Genesis 5:2).

It is interesting to note that God called both male and female, "Adam" in the day they were created. Adam means "man." Adam and Eve were created with God-ordained differences from each other, but together they made a full "man," or a complete picture of God Himself. There was perfection in their union. Their differences were not a source of discord or inequality, but a beautiful compliment to each other. Together, God gave them the task of overseeing His creation.

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth" (Genesis 1:28).

Notice that God gave the above commission to them both. There is no hint that there was anything but equal authority between man and woman as they existed in a sinless state.​

In the Bible, it is written, God created aw-dawm'. Aw-dawm' is Hebrew for man, meaning both were equal, and both had the same status.
H120
אָדָם
'âdâm
aw-dawm'
.

 

[Tenchi]

I agree with what scripture says about the office of an Elder and a Pastor as being a position of a man that is called of God as they being the head of the house, whether it be God's house in the assembling or their own homes as a man is to take Spiritually authority being the head over the family. But, yet women have their equal place in God's ministry within the body of Christ as how can we silence a woman that God has called and also equipped to teach to teach His word to others. I would prefer sitting under an anointed man teaching having Godly authority over me, but yet we can not silence the woman God has also called to teach His word.

Women definitely have an equal place with men before God but they don't occupy the same roles as men do. This is evident all throughout the record of the Bible. There are exceptions, such as Deborah, who held the position of judge of Israel because the men would not. A "normal" state-of-affairs - that is, the circumstance intended by God - would have seen a man in the role, however, as in every other case recorded in Judges. Only men were installed in the role of priests of Israel, as God had commanded. Only men governed the nation of Israel and Judah as kings; there was never a queen over Israel. Very few women, comparatively, were made prophets by God. I think those mentioned in Scripture could be counted on one hand: Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Noadiah, and Anna.

Do these facts mean women are less than men? Not in a qualitative sense, no. Women are, in God's eyes, just as valuable, just as vital to humanity and the Church, as are men. But, quantitatively, women are not equal to men. For example, the amount of strength of an average woman is, generally, not equal to that of the average man. Generally, men are faster, and bigger than women, too. This quantitative difference has been lately highlighted in awful fashion as men posing as women have competed against them, winning handily against their female opponents and even badly damaging them (as in the case of mixed- gender MMA fighting). Regardless, spiritually, men and women are one in Christ, united together in him, called to conformity to him, not to identicality of roles, in all things. (Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 3:18)

Feminism has infected Christian thinking very powerfully, within the Church encroaching systematically and seriously into roles God has reserved only for men, promoting a kind of equality between the sexes that does violence to the explicit command of the Bible. Feminism sees any difference between men and women as indicative of inequality and thus necessarily of injustice; it cannot tolerate as a basic principle of its ideology that any role a man occupies is off-limits to women. But this isn't God's view. As I pointed out in my last post to this thread, He very clearly and explicitly sets aside the role of Elder/Pastor for men.

This does not mean women who are gifted to teach must never do so within the Body of Believers, only that they are not free to do so in violation of scriptural constraints. They may teach children and other women and exhort men, but they are never to hold a position of spiritual authority over men, preaching to them, instructing them on spiritual matters from the role of an Elder/Pastor.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law" (1 Corinthians 14:34).

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence" (1 Timothy 2:11-12).

In these verses, Paul cannot be addressing women who were in the ministry, but rather those in the congregation who were out of order. How do we know this? We have many such proofs, many from Paul himself. Here is a partial list of women who were all in influential positions of leadership in the early church.

What you've offered here is a false dichotomy. There aren't only the two options you've offered concerning to whom Paul was writing in the verse you offered. The law Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians 14:34 was not confined in its scope only to female laity who were "out of order," but encompassed all Jewish women.

And Paul's words to Timothy address women in a clearly universal way, offering no qualification to the scope of his command about them, but justifying, instead, his command with reasoning that could not be more general in its character:

1 Timothy 2:11-14 (NASB)
11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

Paul refers to Eve here as representative of all women, arguing for his prohibition concerning women from the example of Eve.

Pheobe (Romans 16:1-2): This woman was a deaconess of the church in Cenchrea, who was beloved of Paul and many other Christians for the help she gave to them. She filled an important position of leadership. It would be a difficult stretch of the imagination to say that this woman fulfilled her duties without ever speaking in the church!

Well, what does Scripture actually say? Will you force into what is recorded of Phoebe your own ideas, or confine yourself only to what is actually written of her? Was Phoebe acknowledged as a Pastor/Elder? No. A deacon, perhaps, but not an Elder/Pastor. Does Scripture say that she made public addresses to the church at Rome? No. Paul describes her only - though, repeatedly - as a servant/helper (diakonos - deacon, servant/prostatis - patroness, protectress, in Greek). That's it. And Paul doesn't encourage those receiving Phoebe to obey her teaching, or submit themselves to her spiritual authority. No, they are only to help her serve.

 

[Tenchi]

Priscilla (Acts 18:26): Priscilla and her husband Aquila are often mentioned with great respect by Paul. Together they were pastors of a church in Ephesus, and were responsible for teaching the full gospel to Apollos.

Is this what Scripture actually says? Is Priscilla identified as a Pastor/Elder by Paul? No. Is Aquilla given this identification? No. Priscilla did not take it upon herself, apart from her husband, to instruct Apollos. Why would she? She was not an Elder/Pastor. Neither was Aquilla, as far as I can tell from Scripture. They traveled about with Paul for a time, clearly favored by him, as a result. But nowhere are they referred to in Scripture as Pastors/Elders.

Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2-3): Here we see reference to two women who were "true yokefellow" and who labored with Paul in the advancement of the gospel.

Sure. What does Paul's description of these two indicate? Did they hold the office of "overseer," of "bishop," over a community of believers? No. They were merely "fellow workers" together with Paul. It's reading into what is in God's word to assert that they were more.

Junia (Romans 16:7): In this verse we see Paul sending greetings to Andronicus and Junia, his "fellow-prisoners" who are of note among the apostles. Junia is a woman's name. In some modern translations, an "s" has been added (Junias) because the translators were so sure a woman could not be an apostle, that they assumed a copyist has accidentally dropped the "s." However the proper male ending would have been "ius," not "ias." No church commentator earlier than the Middle Ages questioned that Junia was both a woman and an apostle.

But "apostle" means "one sent out" (ie. a missionary) and doesn't necessarily connote apostleship of the sort held by Peter, John, James, Paul, etc.. Junia would have been a very strange exception to these apostles, given their special role as "establishers" of the Early Church by Christ himself, capable of great miracles in proof of their apostleship, and wielding authority to set out doctrine and write holy Scripture. Junia had none of these things of which to boast. She/he was not recognized by the Early Church, or Paul himself, as being any more than Epaphroditus or Titus, messengers carrying out the business of the apostles and the growing Church, traveling among them as messengers of that time were wont to do (Philippians 2:25; 2 Corinthians 8:23).

Though there were other women throughout the Bible in positions of leadership, such as prophetesses, evangelists, judges, leaders, etc., the above references should be enough to establish that women were indeed a vital and normal part of church leadership. Paul expected women to speak in the church, or else why would he have given the following directive. It would have been useless to give directions for women who were speaking in the church, if they were never allowed to do so.

It is not speaking in church that is prohibited of women in God's word but teaching and holding spiritual authority over men.

In this chapter Paul is giving instruction on how to give prophecy and use tongues in an orderly fashion. Paul was not telling women that they were not allowed to teach men, but to keep quite in the church with there disruptive chatter and questions that interrupted the service. They were told to hold their questions until they got home and ask their husband. They were never told they could not teach men.

Not in this particular part of Paul's letter to the Church at Rome, no. But as has already been mentioned in this thread, Paul does explicitly forbid women from teaching men, particularly as a spiritual authority over them, as would be the case if occupying the office of "bishop" or Pastor/Elder.

If God did not approve of women leading or instructing men then why was one third of Israel's first leadership team Female? God said to the prophet Micah "I sent Moses to lead you, also Aaron and Miriam, Micah 6:4.

Nowhere in Scripture are Aaron and Miriam referred to as Moses' "leadership team." In fact, at one point, God had to very sharply rebuke them for speaking against Moses. (Numbers 12:1-7) And wasn't it Aaron who led the Israelite people in Baal worship? (Exodus 32) Yup. Miriam did not meet with God on Mount Sinai; she was not given the Ten Commandments; she did not contend with Pharaoh over the release of the Israelites from bondage in Egypt. And if you want to argue for Miriam's importance on the basis of fractions, the flip side of her being one-third of the Exodus "leadership team," is that the men constituted two-thirds of that team. I don't see that this helps your case any...

I get that in the current cultural milieu it is common for women to read God's word through the lens of feminism, feeling that they ought to share with men every God-given role if they are to be truly equal with men. God's word, though, doesn't yield to our culture trends. Men and women find their equality in Christ Jesus, both genders moving toward conformity to him, to his will and way, to his character. And within this dynamic they occupy different roles, not inferior/superior ones.

 

[Free]

It must be personally offensive to you to read so many posts that denigrate women and their roles in the body of Christ. I want to personally thank you for being a pastor on this forum and being patient with those who can't respect the abilities of women.

This is patently false rhetoric and fallacious question begging. It's also a way for you to get in cheap shots on those you disagree with. If God has ordained roles for men and women in the Church, as given by Scripture, then we must follow what he has commanded. We cannot bring in worldly, cultural ideas of what roles men and women should be doing.

 

[Tenchi]

So women are not to teach their sons?

I've always understood "men" or "man" to refer to an adult male(s).

 

[Cooper]

Women definitely have an equal place with men before God but they don't occupy the same roles as men do. This is evident all throughout the record of the Bible. There are exceptions, such as Deborah, who held the position of judge of Israel because the men would not. A "normal" state-of-affairs - that is, the circumstance intended by God - would have seen a man in the role, however, as in every other case recorded in Judges. Only men were installed in the role of priests of Israel, as God had commanded. Only men governed the nation of Israel and Judah as kings; there was never a queen over Israel. Very few women, comparatively, were made prophets by God. I think those mentioned in Scripture could be counted on one hand: Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Noadiah, and Anna.

Do these facts mean women are less than men? Not in a qualitative sense, no. Women are, in God's eyes, just as valuable, just as vital to humanity and the Church, as are men. But, quantitatively, women are not equal to men. For example, the amount of strength of an average woman is, generally, not equal to that of the average man. Generally, men are faster, and bigger than women, too. This quantitative difference has been lately highlighted in awful fashion as men posing as women have competed against them, winning handily against their female opponents and even badly damaging them (as in the case of mixed- gender MMA fighting). Regardless, spiritually, men and women are one in Christ, united together in him, called to conformity to him, not to identicality of roles, in all things. (Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 3:18)

Feminism has infected Christian thinking very powerfully, within the Church encroaching systematically and seriously into roles God has reserved only for men, promoting a kind of equality between the sexes that does violence to the explicit command of the Bible. Feminism sees any difference between men and women as indicative of inequality and thus necessarily of injustice; it cannot tolerate as a basic principle of its ideology that any role a man occupies is off-limits to women. But this isn't God's view. As I pointed out in my last post to this thread, He very clearly and explicitly sets aside the role of Elder/Pastor for men.

This does not mean women who are gifted to teach must never do so within the Body of Believers, only that they are not free to do so in violation of scriptural constraints. They may teach children and other women and exhort men, but they are never to hold a position of spiritual authority over men, preaching to them, instructing them on spiritual matters from the role of an Elder/Pastor.



What you've offered here is a false dichotomy. There aren't only the two options you've offered concerning to whom Paul was writing in the verse you offered. The law Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians 14:34 was not confined in its scope only to female laity who were "out of order," but encompassed all Jewish women.

And Paul's words to Timothy address women in a clearly universal way, offering no qualification to the scope of his command about them, but justifying, instead, his command with reasoning that could not be more general in its character:

1 Timothy 2:11-14 (NASB)
11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

Paul refers to Eve here as representative of all women, arguing for his prohibition concerning women from the example of Eve.



Well, what does Scripture actually say? Will you force into what is recorded of Phoebe your own ideas, or confine yourself only to what is actually written of her? Was Phoebe acknowledged as a Pastor/Elder? No. A deacon, perhaps, but not an Elder/Pastor. Does Scripture say that she made public addresses to the church at Rome? No. Paul describes her only - though, repeatedly - as a servant/helper (diakonos - deacon, servant/prostatis - patroness, protectress, in Greek). That's it. And Paul doesn't encourage those receiving Phoebe to obey her teaching, or submit themselves to her spiritual authority. No, they are only to help her serve.

Jezebel, queen of Israel worshipped the water/rain god Baal. Jehoiada, Athaliah’s bitter enemy, leader of the Temple priests. Jehu, an army general who murdered Jezebel, took the throne of Judah and hunted Athaliah.

queen of israel old testament - Search

www.bing.com

.

 

[Cooper]

Is this what Scripture actually says? Is Priscilla identified as a Pastor/Elder by Paul? No. Is Aquilla given this identification? No. Priscilla did not take it upon herself, apart from her husband, to instruct Apollos. Why would she? She was not an Elder/Pastor. Neither was Aquilla, as far as I can tell from Scripture. They traveled about with Paul for a time, clearly favored by him, as a result. But nowhere are they referred to in Scripture as Pastors/Elders.



Sure. What does Paul's description of these two indicate? Did they hold the office of "overseer," of "bishop," over a community of believers? No. They were merely "fellow workers" together with Paul. It's reading into what is in God's word to assert that they were more.



But "apostle" means "one sent out" (ie. a missionary) and doesn't necessarily connote apostleship of the sort held by Peter, John, James, Paul, etc.. Junia would have been a very strange exception to these apostles, given their special role as "establishers" of the Early Church by Christ himself, capable of great miracles in proof of their apostleship, and wielding authority to set out doctrine and write holy Scripture. Junia had none of these things of which to boast. She/he was not recognized by the Early Church, or Paul himself, as being any more than Epaphroditus or Titus, messengers carrying out the business of the apostles and the growing Church, traveling among them as messengers of that time were wont to do (Philippians 2:25; 2 Corinthians 8:23).



It is not speaking in church that is prohibited of women in God's word but teaching and holding spiritual authority over men.



Not in this particular part of Paul's letter to the Church at Rome, no. But as has already been mentioned in this thread, Paul does explicitly forbid women from teaching men, particularly as a spiritual authority over them, as would be the case if occupying the office of "bishop" or Pastor/Elder.



Nowhere in Scripture are Aaron and Miriam referred to as Moses' "leadership team." In fact, at one point, God had to very sharply rebuke them for speaking against Moses. (Numbers 12:1-7) And wasn't it Aaron who led the Israelite people in Baal worship? (Exodus 32) Yup. Miriam did not meet with God on Mount Sinai; she was not given the Ten Commandments; she did not contend with Pharaoh over the release of the Israelites from bondage in Egypt. And if you want to argue for Miriam's importance on the basis of fractions, the flip side of her being one-third of the Exodus "leadership team," is that the men constituted two-thirds of that team. I don't see that this helps your case any...

I get that in the current cultural milieu it is common for women to read God's word through the lens of feminism, feeling that they ought to share with men every God-given role if they are to be truly equal with men. God's word, though, doesn't yield to our culture trends. Men and women find their equality in Christ Jesus, both genders moving toward conformity to him, to his will and way, to his character. And within this dynamic they occupy different roles, not inferior/superior ones.

Prisca
Pris'ca. (ancient). 2Timothy 4:19. Pris'ca or Priscil'la, (a diminutive from Prisca). The wife of Aquila. See Aquila. To what has been said elsewhere under the head of Aquila, the following may be added:

We find that the name of the wife is placed before that of the husband in Rom_16:3; 2Ti_4:19, and , (according to some of the best manuscripts), in Act_18:26. Hence, we should be disposed to conclude that Priscilla was the more energetic character of the two. In fact, we may say that Priscilla is the example of what the married woman may do for the general service of the Church, in conjunction with home duties, as Phoebe is the type of the unmarried servant of the Church, or deaconess.
.

 

[Cooper]

Deacons are servants for some specific purpose in the duties and functioning of the church, and may not even have anything to do with the assembled church at all (see Acts 6, for example). They don’t teach or pastor.


To say they were pastors is to go beyond any text mentioning them, that I noticed. It is simply stated that a gathering of believers met in their house.


Labored could refer to any number of things and need not have anything to do with teaching.


There is no mention that I could find of Junia (or Junias) being an apostle.


Paul explicitly says he doesn’t allow women to teach or have authority over men (1 Tim 2:12). Both things could refer to the offices of teacher and elder.

I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also. Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus: (Rom 16:1-3 KJV)

Where did you get the word deacon from?
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[Cooper]

No one is saying he did. Please, go and learn the difference between law and commands for believers.

The law was nailed to the cross. Now we live under God's grace.
.

 

[Free]

I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also. Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus: (Rom 16:1-3 KJV)

Where did you get the word deacon from?
.

The Greek. "Servant" is the Greek word diakonos, translated as "deacons" in 1 Tim 3:8, 12, and Phil 1:1. It is translated as "minister," "servant," and "deacon."

 

[Free]

The law was nailed to the cross. Now we live under God's grace.
.

Obviously, but that is not the issue here. "Grace" and "law" aren't terms that can be used to disregard beliefs or commands for believers that one disagrees with. It seems to be too common in these discussions.

 

[Cooper]

The Greek. "Servant" is the Greek word diakonos, translated as "deacons" in 1 Tim 3:8, 12, and Phil 1:1. It is translated as "minister," "servant," and "deacon."

G1249
διάκονος
diakonos
dee-ak'-on-os
Probably from διάκω diakō (obsolete, to run on errands; compare G1377); an attendant, that is, (generally) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); specifically a Christian teacher and pastor (technically a deacon or deaconess): - deacon, minister, servant.
Total KJV occurrences: 30
OK.
.

 

[Cooper]

Obviously, but that is not the issue here. "Grace" and "law" aren't terms that can be used to disregard beliefs or commands for believers that one disagrees with. It seems to be too common in these discussions.

There is a vast difference between being under law, and being under grace.
.

 

[Free]

G1249
διάκονος
diakonos
dee-ak'-on-os
Probably from διάκω diakō (obsolete, to run on errands; compare G1377); an attendant, that is, (generally) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); specifically a Christian teacher and pastor (technically a deacon or deaconess): - deacon, minister, servant.
Total KJV occurrences: 30
OK.
.

And the need to repeat was...?

There is a vast difference between being under law, and being under grace.
.

Yes, obviously. But, again, that is not the issue here. You seem to want grace to be a means for ignoring biblical commands to believers by calling it law. But we are supposed to obey. And there are quite a number of commands in the NT for believers to follow.

 

[Cooper]

And the need to repeat was...?


Yes, obviously. But, again, that is not the issue here. You seem to want grace to be a means for ignoring biblical commands to believers by calling it law. But we are supposed to obey. And there are quite a number of commands in the NT for believers to follow.

Christians follow the teaching of Jesus.
.

 

[Free]

Christians follow the teaching of Jesus.
.

They follow the teachings of all of Scripture. What you have effectively done is undermined the inspiration and authority of everything but the gospels. That is quite something, and only to avoid what Paul says.

 

[Anaphora]

But in different roles. The roles God intends men and women to occupy are not identical, some of the roles of men reserved only for men, and some of those of women reserved only for women. The role of an Elder/Pastor is one such role, in Scripture clearly, unequivocally reserved by God for men.

1 Timothy 3:1-7 (NASB)
1 It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.
2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.
4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity
5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),
6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.
7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Titus 1:5-9 (NASB)
5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you,
6 namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion.
7 For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain,
8 but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled,
9 holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.

The apostle Paul explained to Timothy that women were not to teach men in the Church, not for reasons of culture, but as follows:

1 Timothy 2:11-14 (NASB)
11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

Do Paul's words completely prohibit a woman from teaching? No. But she must not teach men and certainly not from a position of spiritual authority such as exists in the office of Elder/Pastor. And so, there is not one instance in the New Testament of a woman officially appointed to, or unofficially acting in, the role of an Elder/Pastor.



False preachers succeed because many so-called Christians are careless about their own study of God's word and consequently are extremely spiritually juvenile. What's worse, the Church is crowded with the "leaven" of false brethren, itself badly "leavened," as a result. There would be many fewer false teachers/prophets today, I think, if these things weren't so. As bad, then, as the false teacher/prophet is, the foolish, immature, carnal Christians by whom they are sustained have a reckoning with God coming, too.

Your wrong! Women can teach God's word. 2nd kings 22:14. So Hilkiah the priest, and Ahiikam, and Achbor, and SHAPHAN and Asahiah, went unto Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe; The king sent several priests to inquire of woman of God. They were ignorant of Gods word, seeking woman for answers. Its really comical!! . It really shows the degeneracy of the times, also like our times !!. Deborah was a prophetess, Noadiah (nehemiah 6:14), Anna, Luke 2:36, Philip's daughters were preachers, Acts 21:9. Titus 3:9. But avoid foolish questions, and genealogy and contentions and striving about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 3:10. A man that is a Heretick, after the first and second admonition reject; 3:11. Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sins, being condemned of himself. I just admonished, rebuked fellow Christian. A warped mind. Women can teach Gods word and your wrong. If you wont come to your senses, then I'm done with you!!. I will blot you out of my mind.

 

[Tenchi]

Jezebel, queen of Israel worshipped the water/rain god Baal. Jehoiada, Athaliah’s bitter enemy, leader of the Temple priests. Jehu, an army general who murdered Jezebel, took the throne of Judah and hunted Athaliah.

Okay. Not sure what your point is...

Jezebel was the wife of Ahab, the king of the southern kingdom of Israel (which did not include the kingdom of Judah). Does Scripture ever refer to her as the Queen of Israel? Nope. Did Jezebel rule over Israel as any king of Israel did? No. Had she not been married to Ahab, she would have had no power whatever; and if Ahab had died, she would not have succeeded him as ruler of Israel. All of Jezebel's "royal" power was borrowed from her husband, the king.

Did Jehu "murder" Jezebel? He had her killed, yes, but it would be hard, given Jezebel's conduct, to see how she did not receive her "just desserts" when she was thrown to her death from an upper-story window and her corpse eaten by dogs - an end that had actually been prophesied. She had murdered many people, including many prophets of God. In flagrant fashion, she had disobeyed the command of God concerning pagan worship, too. For this alone she deserved the death penalty under the OT Mosaic law. What's more, Jehu had been anointed by God's prophet, Elisha, the next king of over Israel. As such, Jehu had divine right - and the responsibility - to enact God's punishment upon wicked Jezebel. So, I don't think it's correct to say Jehu murdered Jezebel.

 

[jaybo]

This is patently false rhetoric and fallacious question begging. It's also a way for you to get in cheap shots on those you disagree with. If God has ordained roles for men and women in the Church, as given by Scripture, then we must follow what he has commanded. We cannot bring in worldly, cultural ideas of what roles men and women should be doing.

a) My post was not directed to you. It was directed to "for his glory".
b) Writing stuff like "We cannot bring in worldly, cultural ideas of what roles men and women should be doing" is patently false rhetoric and fallacious question begging. It's also a way for you to get in cheap shots on those you disagree with.
c) Personal insults and hostility show exactly what kind of behavior you prefer.
d) I am not under law; I am under grace. That is what being a Christian means. It's sad that you don't understand that fundamental truth.
e) Do you understand the principle of ad hominem?
f) You should review the ToS.

 

[jaybo]

They follow the teachings of all of Scripture. What you have effectively done is undermined the inspiration and authority of everything but the gospels. That is quite something, and only to avoid what Paul says.

Is it your intention to "fly off the handle" and attack everyone? That is exactly what you are doing, and it indicates that you have lost the debate.