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Can you break down the end times for me?

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I know...there's an end times thread. I'm just such a novice that I felt this belonged in the general talk forum.

So, I was saved by The Pentecostals. Love those guys, really. They believe in The Rapture and all that. I was raised and counseled by Calvinists. They...don't. I'm not even clear on what traditional Calvinists believe re: The End Times. Doesn't seem to be a huge deal for them.

So please...help a Baby Christian out and just break it down for me. If you have a strong preference, please tell me why and throw some Scripture my way. I'm terribly, terribly confused about the whole thing.
 
CE It is not unto salvation.... Asking the question here in any forum you will get different answers one for each member..... Trust the Lord when He says He will never leave you or forsake you. How we live our lives unto Him is what matters. He will return when the time is right.


Heb_13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
 
Is that one uncomplicated enough? :lol

dispensationchart.jpg


Honestly, I'm as confused as you are, but I'll keep it the way reba says, I try to be ready any day and just trust in the Lord.
There are millions (it seems) of different teachings about the end time prophesy. It's probably fun to study them. Understanding and teaching end time prophesy is also a spiritual gift, so if you want to study that stuff your knowledge may serve God.
But I doubt we can break it down to you in one thread. The different ideas about it are too... different (d'uh). For example preterism has a completely different premise than the very common pre tribulation rapture premillenialism (or what ever you'd call it correctly).
 
I know...there's an end times thread. I'm just such a novice that I felt this belonged in the general talk forum.

So, I was saved by The Pentecostals. Love those guys, really. They believe in The Rapture and all that. I was raised and counseled by Calvinists. They...don't. I'm not even clear on what traditional Calvinists believe re: The End Times. Doesn't seem to be a huge deal for them.

So please...help a Baby Christian out and just break it down for me. If you have a strong preference, please tell me why and throw some Scripture my way. I'm terribly, terribly confused about the whole thing.

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" Matthew 24:3


Read Matthew 24 & 25.

Ask the Lord to give you Wisdom and Understanding in His word to His Disciples here in these chapters.

Then lets discuss.


Blessings to you.


JLB
 
I am licensed minister with the Assemblies of God. The AG official stance is the pre-trib rapture which I agree with.

However there are scriptures that seem to hint towards a mid-trib or post-trib rapture. I'll be honest, know one really knows for sure. If we're living sincerely for the Lord we'll be ready no matter what.

I did do some study with a book written by Dr. Hilton Sutton and he had an interesting take on it. He suggested that there would be multiple raptures at different points: Pre-trib, Mid-trib and post-trib. The thinking was that people will continue to get saved throughout the process. This would explain the evidence pointing to different seasons.

It was a paradigm shift for me to consider it. Instead of thinking of the rapture happening once, you approach it with the perspective of multiple raptures.

Does that settle it for me? Course not, how could we ever be 100% sure?

Anyways, hope this is interesting to at least think about and consider.
 
Wow. Matthew 24+25 is DENSE....I read it. I'll read it again. We read parts of it at Teen Challenge, but...wow.

For the time being, I'll just focus on development of proper moral conduct :)
 
simple. don't take the bible chapters out of context and apply solo scriptura. and I can walk you Christ_empowered through the eschatology in question and why I am a preterist. in private. I prefer not to debate this at present.
 
OK. I'll PM you later, jasoncran. Thanks.

I'm not looking to start a debate, lol. Just randomly curious about the whole thing today, that's all.
 
it will not be a quick and easy research for you. the more you think you know the less you do know. I have a saying. study creation and its wow. god did that. study revalation its man god will judge and redeem men. its really that simple. we can argue the means all day long but in the end its god knows only.
 
I am licensed minister with the Assemblies of God. The AG official stance is the pre-trib rapture which I agree with.

I'll be honest, know one really knows for sure.

That my brother is simply not true.

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days...they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The truth is, there is not one single scripture in the bible that supports a Pre-Trib Rapture.


JLB
 
Brother, I am fine if that's your interpretation. If that's the way things go down I will stand in faith and be ready.

Couple things to consider:

1. There's no scriptures in the Bible that state that the church will go "through" the Great tribulation.
2. A 'singular Post-tribulation rapture view' contradicts the scriptures that express His "imminent" return (Matt. 24:42-44). If the Lord could return at any time and we are commanded to live in a such a way as to be "ready", what would be the point of the rapture being fixed "after" the tribulation? That's a contradiction.
3. Considering a multi-rapture perspective allows room for all the scriptures to be in harmony.

I'm not saying this makes it a case closed argument. Just adding some food for thought.
 
Brother, I am fine if that's your interpretation. If that's the way things go down I will stand in faith and be ready.

Couple things to consider:

1. There's no scriptures in the Bible that state that the church will go "through" the Great tribulation.
2. A 'singular Post-tribulation rapture view' contradicts the scriptures that express His "imminent" return (Matt. 24:42-44). If the Lord could return at any time and we are commanded to live in a such a way as to be "ready", what would be the point of the rapture being fixed "after" the tribulation? That's a contradiction.
3. Considering a multi-rapture perspective allows room for all the scriptures to be in harmony.

I'm not saying this makes it a case closed argument. Just adding some food for thought.

I love you Brother.

The Coming of The Lord will not be as a thief in the night for the Church, but rather for the world.

1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4

The Church will not be surprised by His Coming.

Therefore, the Church knows when His Coming will take place, by the signs that His Church leadership asked and received from Him.

Blessings to you.

JLB
 
i don't believe in any future seven year trib. its kinda hard to not know the time of his coming when you see the ac.
 
Now that we're about to discuss details anyway.
Can anyone break down why you guys all believe in a thing called "rapture"? Because there is not even one mention of that word in the Bible. And the verses quoted in that context is really unconclusive. So please forgive me because I don't wanna sound respectless, but the doctrine of the rapture seems a bit weird....
 
Hi Christ-Empowered,
There are 3 scriptures that help me put everything else in context:
1. (the 2 greatest commandments...) "Love the Lord thy God with all thy might, mind & strength, and thy neighbor as thyself... on these 2 commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

2. "Without a parable spake he (Jesus) not unto them." Scriptures are not his-story, nor future predictions, but are spiritual lessons to be incorporated now.

3. (When asked when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied...) "The kingdom of God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say lo here or lo there. For be hold, the kingdom (realm/experience) of God is within you." -Luke 17:20-21 Even if Jesus came, what could he do for us - without our spiritual effort? Jews crucified him because he didn't save them as they wanted to be saved. The experience of God is not some fateful day, but now... we are not time travelers, we live each moment, presently.
"I AM THAT I AM" not "I was that I was" nor "I will be that I will be."

You will be preached hell and damnation, and all kinds of "heaven reward fallacies."
But instead of being filled with fear and shame, you can see the GOoD & truth in them...
IE:
Scriptures are meant to be likened to us within, spiritually.
I really don't know what the Revelation authors intended...
But I'll give you a possible perspective/interpretation...(some terms I learned from "Putting on the Mind of Christ")

1st seal, a crown is given - birth/life - Archaic & Magical Consciousness
2nd seal, a sword is given - ability to discern good from evil - Mythic Consciousness
3rd seal, balances are had - questioning myths - Rational Consciousness level
4th seal - power was given - can see many perspectives - Vision-Logic Consciousness
5th seal - Shown souls who were slain for the word of God - fears conquered for love - Psychic/Spirit Consciousness
6th seal - earthquakes, sun black, stars fall - see our imperfections "bursts our egotistical bubble" - Dark night of the senses
7th seal - silence, then "all hell breaks loose" with wars & plagues - Confronting "feelings buried alive"- Dark Night/Confronting Shadow Self
Christ reigns - Spiritual union with God, Our Creators - Christ Consciousness
 
Now that we're about to discuss details anyway.
Can anyone break down why you guys all believe in a thing called "rapture"? Because there is not even one mention of that word in the Bible. And the verses quoted in that context is really unconclusive. So please forgive me because I don't wanna sound respectless, but the doctrine of the rapture seems a bit weird....

With all due respect to you.

Saying you don't believe in the Rapture because it doesn't appear in Bible, is like saying you don't believe in friendship because the word Amigo doesn't appear in the English dictionary.

The word caught up in English is Harpadzo in Greek and In Latin it's ?

You search and tell me what is in Latin.
 
I know...there's an end times thread. I'm just such a novice that I felt this belonged in the general talk forum.

So, I was saved by The Pentecostals. Love those guys, really. They believe in The Rapture and all that. I was raised and counseled by Calvinists. They...don't. I'm not even clear on what traditional Calvinists believe re: The End Times. Doesn't seem to be a huge deal for them.

So please...help a Baby Christian out and just break it down for me. If you have a strong preference, please tell me why and throw some Scripture my way. I'm terribly, terribly confused about the whole thing.

Let me generalize this more than most people have been doing so far - at the risk of patronizing you. But hey, you wanted simple... :)

Eschatology is a study of the "Last things". The word comes from the Greek word eschaton which occurs several times in the New Testament including: Acts 2:17, 1 Cor 15:52, Hebrews 1:2, James 5:3, 1 Peter 1:5, 20, 2 Peter 3:3, 1 John 2:18, Jude 1:18 (click to read on BibleGateway - variously translated as "last days" or "last times").

Utimately this "study" of last times is a doctrinal attempt by Christians of various backgrounds, denominations, and theological convictions to understand how the end times will unfold. As it turns out, many of the details (which people try to infer based on extrapolations beyond what is actually written) are, as a matter of fact, not even necessary to know. The chief benefit of studying eschatology (objectively speaking - for those who have not lost sight of it in the course of protecting their paradigms so much that they have forgotten why they first sought them) is to prepare the reader to ready themselves for Jesus' second coming. That goal includes purifying one's self, being prayerful, and soberly keeping watch. Many Scriptures can be given to defend that statement.

A particular verse that I have printed in large letters and stuck to my refrigerator is Luke 21:24-26:

"But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.

Beyond this, what does eschatology seek to establish? I will briefly summarize with some of the chief questions it seeks to answer:
  • When will certain things prophesied take place?
  • In what manner will such prophesies be fulfilled (figuratively or literally?)
  • How will it take place? What are the details?
  • How does this relate to God's eternal plan and His loving yet righteous nature?
  • (And often) What paradigm can I espouse that explains all these elements satisfactorily?
As to all these questions: here is where it gets really "confusing" and "bewildering". Taking for example just a sample of views possible (in all their jargon):

Amillenialism, Premillenialism, Postmillenialism, Preterism (believes most things have already been fulfilled), Post-/Mid-/Pre-Tribulation Rapture, "There is no Rapture" (view), Final Judgment after the Tribulation, Final Judgment after the Millenium, Eternal Kingdom is in Heaven, Eternal Kingdom is on Earth, "Lake of Fire for the Wicked will be Visible to believers for all of Eternity" (view - following Isaiah 66), Universal Reconciliation (which thinks everyone will be forgiven regardless and the Lake of Fire will one day be emptied - I regard this as heresy), etc.....

You will have to just begin studying Scripture and occasionally read commentaries if you want to understand how your understanding of Scripture lines up with these paradigms. Ultimately though as I pointed out the important part is how you respond to what the Bible reveals about what will happen in the last days, and what that means for your relationship with God and how your should conduct your life in light of it.

I hope that helps.

God Bless,
Josh
 
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Now that we're about to discuss details anyway.
Can anyone break down why you guys all believe in a thing called "rapture"? Because there is not even one mention of that word in the Bible. And the verses quoted in that context is really unconclusive. So please forgive me because I don't wanna sound respectless, but the doctrine of the rapture seems a bit weird....

Claudya:

It means 'caught up', which occurs in 1 Thess. 4.
 
But 1 Thess 4:17 is very inconclusive. The verse might just as well be speaking about the final judgement, the same event as in Revelation 20:13 and 14, just in different words, focussing on a different aspect of it.
 
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