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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
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Capitalist society
- Thread starter Kathi
- Start date
- Sep 11, 2012
- 6,201
- 1,133
It really depends on where you live, and who your landlords are. We have some pretty cheap rent, though we knew our landlords before we ever started renting from them. I am sure they could get more rent for the house in which we are living, but they wanted to help us out.
We have been looking into buying a house, and depending on the price you can sometimes have a mortgage payment that is less than a lot of rents people are asking for houses of the same size.
We have been looking into buying a house, and depending on the price you can sometimes have a mortgage payment that is less than a lot of rents people are asking for houses of the same size.
Christ_empowered
Member
- Oct 23, 2010
- 14,308
- 10,794
I vaguely remember reading Marx (yes, the original commie). Anyway, he writes about "late/end-stage capitalism," and I kinda see some of that right now. If I recall, things get so imbalanced, power gets so concentrated (wealth too, of course), and the workers become so alienated, that capitalism crumbles.
When you think about it...lots of people now are on disability for something or other, both SSDI and SSI. SSI is more a covert welfare program than anything else. It gives poor people (like me) a little bit of money so they don't rebel. That's what welfare is for, really....social stability. Lots of people on SSI are genuinely unable to work (or, like me, crippled by stigma), but there's apparently lots of people on it because they can't find work or they've basically "checked out" of the economy. Happens.
So, yeah...we have loads of unemployment, under-employment, the "growing" jobs are mostly low paying. The middle class is shrinking from and from bottom. Some people (like my parents) got pushed up into the more affluent parts of the middle class and some people got pushed down to lower middle class or lower.
As for alienated workers...wow. Get a 4 year degree and work at Starbuck's. Be a cubicle dweller. Play on facebook and develop a personality, a style. Why? Because most of us aren't fortunate enough to be engaged in meaningful labor anymore. Blue collar jobs that used to provide a comfortable, middle class life with the opportunity for upward mobility both for the worker and his offspring are now in Mexico.
I'm not saying socialism is the answer, but maybe a more European approach to things. People buy into this "no big government" thing without realizing: its rich people who don't want "big government," because "big government" generally protects the interests of the rest of us.
OK. End to the rant. Yes, I think its capitalism, and I think unfettered capitalism in the US is causing a lot of problems.
When you think about it...lots of people now are on disability for something or other, both SSDI and SSI. SSI is more a covert welfare program than anything else. It gives poor people (like me) a little bit of money so they don't rebel. That's what welfare is for, really....social stability. Lots of people on SSI are genuinely unable to work (or, like me, crippled by stigma), but there's apparently lots of people on it because they can't find work or they've basically "checked out" of the economy. Happens.
So, yeah...we have loads of unemployment, under-employment, the "growing" jobs are mostly low paying. The middle class is shrinking from and from bottom. Some people (like my parents) got pushed up into the more affluent parts of the middle class and some people got pushed down to lower middle class or lower.
As for alienated workers...wow. Get a 4 year degree and work at Starbuck's. Be a cubicle dweller. Play on facebook and develop a personality, a style. Why? Because most of us aren't fortunate enough to be engaged in meaningful labor anymore. Blue collar jobs that used to provide a comfortable, middle class life with the opportunity for upward mobility both for the worker and his offspring are now in Mexico.
I'm not saying socialism is the answer, but maybe a more European approach to things. People buy into this "no big government" thing without realizing: its rich people who don't want "big government," because "big government" generally protects the interests of the rest of us.
OK. End to the rant. Yes, I think its capitalism, and I think unfettered capitalism in the US is causing a lot of problems.
- Mar 11, 2014
- 48,500
- 10,172
unfettered. why my aunt ellen (1904-2002) was old enough to be in child labor camps. she worked on farms. that was unfettered then.
Mike S
Member
- Mar 10, 2011
- 10,313
- 1,075
Ours is a highly regulated system, free market dynamics here no longer work the way they're supposed to work.
- Mar 11, 2014
- 48,500
- 10,172
we need more regulation, its too capitalistic. hmm NOT.
Ours is a highly regulated system, free market dynamics here no longer work the way they're supposed to work.
Danus
Member
- Jan 17, 2010
- 3,674
- 142
Supply and demand, depending on the market where you are renting. If you live in the US, then you basically live under a capitalistic economy with some forms of regulation to help ensure fair forms of competition, or in some cases safety.
In some markets, housing supply is strong and demand is steady or constant and the prices will be more reasonable, but there is another element to factor in when it comes to housing, free markets, and regulation by the government, and that is the economic power of the demand.
For example, everyone needs a place to live but not everyone is economically viable to satisfy their own demand. So, in the case of housing, the demand must be strong enough to satisfy itself. If it's not economically strong enough the government can help it be and make the price go up.
An example of this would be a city like Memphis TN. In Memphis TN the supply of housing is pretty strong. The demand is constant, but the viability of the demand is weaker than in other cities like say Dallas TX.
So lets say you have 100 people and 150 homes. In a case like this the price should be reasonably low, but lets say that 40% of those 100 people do not have an income. That's 40% who are not able to enter the market. So in steps the government to "HELP" people.
The government can step in and pay the difference for the 40% who find it difficult to afford housing. It's called section 8 housing.
One would think that the competition from 150 homes for rent would drive the price down to draw the 60% of viable renters, but because of government regulation the price is higher. Why? ...answer....the 150 homes will compete for the strongest market, and in the case of section 8 the strongest market is the government, who will guarantee the rent is paid. This drives both the supply and the price UP and actually creates an unfair price in the market for rent. So actually, it's often not capitalism that is to blame for high rent. It's most often socialism.
- Thread starter
- #9
That and........GREED.
AirDancer
Member
- Feb 14, 2012
- 18,907
- 3,819
Greed plays a role in what some landlords will charge for a rental.
Other landlords calculate what their mortgage payments are for the property, the insurance, property taxes, estimated yearly repairs, federal taxes on the rental income (and for those who live in states with income taxes, state tax on the rental income), plus some monetary reserve just in case something else occurs to the property that couldn't be foreseen. Owners also have to consider that there might be some months without rent monies coming in; if a former renter moves out in the middle of the night, destroying the interior in the process, the owner won't be able to rent the property in a handful of days. So everything has to be considered.
Other landlords calculate what their mortgage payments are for the property, the insurance, property taxes, estimated yearly repairs, federal taxes on the rental income (and for those who live in states with income taxes, state tax on the rental income), plus some monetary reserve just in case something else occurs to the property that couldn't be foreseen. Owners also have to consider that there might be some months without rent monies coming in; if a former renter moves out in the middle of the night, destroying the interior in the process, the owner won't be able to rent the property in a handful of days. So everything has to be considered.
- Mar 11, 2014
- 48,500
- 10,172
reasonable. just because YOU buy new and have new appliances in the home doesn't mean they will last. to wit:
1) both toliets flushmeters replace
2) the French doors rotted
3) all locks and door knobs replaced
4) septic tank pumped out'
5) a new home will not have all the fixtures for lights. i know i had to by them
6) paint? i will have to paint my exterior soon
7) refrigerator and dishwasher took a dump.
8) new homes don't come with a washer and dryer. im on my second set
9) original exterior lights are replaced.
10) kitchen faucet replaced, and bathroom sink line repaired as they both were leaking.
that is on a home i have bought and its not even 10 years old!
AirDancer
Member
- Feb 14, 2012
- 18,907
- 3,819
One of the homes I bought was 100 years old. Rehab was required:
1) replaced old tube & knob wiring
2) replaced inadequate Green Acres-style fuse box with expanded breaker panel
3) replaced all original windows with energy-efficient double-pane windows
4) knocked out cracked & sagging lath & plaster walls and replaced with drywall
5) added insulation ... what a concept!
6) replaced old, old, old furnace with 98% efficient furnace
7) added central air conditioning at the same time as new furnace
8) gutted illegally installed bathroom and re-built from concrete floor up - and passed inspections
9) new security doors
10) new roof, with new decking as required
11) installed skylight for redesigned area of house
12) chimney flue replaced with caps installed on top
13) electricity added to garage; installed lighting & garage door opener
14) replaced sewer line
15) replaced all guttering
16) rebuilt enclosed front porch
17) replaced front steps & deck
18) replaced water line inside the house
Thankfully, no one thought to sand the original oak woodwork (throughout the house) prior to painting, so stripping layers & layers of paint was made easier to do. The hardwood floors were easy to sand to refinish.
I used to love rehabbing old homes ... they have such character & charm!
1) replaced old tube & knob wiring
2) replaced inadequate Green Acres-style fuse box with expanded breaker panel
3) replaced all original windows with energy-efficient double-pane windows
4) knocked out cracked & sagging lath & plaster walls and replaced with drywall
5) added insulation ... what a concept!
6) replaced old, old, old furnace with 98% efficient furnace
7) added central air conditioning at the same time as new furnace
8) gutted illegally installed bathroom and re-built from concrete floor up - and passed inspections
9) new security doors
10) new roof, with new decking as required
11) installed skylight for redesigned area of house
12) chimney flue replaced with caps installed on top
13) electricity added to garage; installed lighting & garage door opener
14) replaced sewer line
15) replaced all guttering
16) rebuilt enclosed front porch
17) replaced front steps & deck
18) replaced water line inside the house
Thankfully, no one thought to sand the original oak woodwork (throughout the house) prior to painting, so stripping layers & layers of paint was made easier to do. The hardwood floors were easy to sand to refinish.
I used to love rehabbing old homes ... they have such character & charm!
Christ_empowered
Member
- Oct 23, 2010
- 14,308
- 10,794
In a lot of other countries, they have "housing allowances" to help people stay housed and fed and all that good stuff. I hope the US moves that way soon...
- Mar 11, 2014
- 48,500
- 10,172
uhm that will make it worse. so housing allowances will come from where? YOU, via taxes, that is already been done. I get that for training. we have soldiers on welfare even with that!
Danus
Member
- Jan 17, 2010
- 3,674
- 142
OK Yeah, we can say "Greed" is an element, but it's more a given when it comes to economics.
The problem with greed, is not that it exist in the heart of mankind, but that it can not be measured. There is no pound of greed, or yard, or %, or any unit that we can assign to greed. We just know that it exist. So greed is a given. Like any desire.
Society will differ on the definition of greed, just as it will differ on what is moral. We often give a lot of lofty credit to the word "Morality" and we look down on the word "Greed", but morality is simply what is, and greed is simply desire. No one can control either, but any attempt to do so within a social economic system is known as regulation. So the argument is often between too much or not enough regulation.
In the case of housing, few will argue against not providing housing, or say that some people don't deserve housing. We all need a a place to live, but there is a moral issue. Do you just give away housing? Are we doing anyone a favor by not encouraging people to be the best they can be, to seek their highest atchevment in their efforts to make more for themselves in this system? Maybe some people could use a little more greed in their life.
Want a better house? get a better job. Find a way to make more money and accomplish more in life. Most of all, be satisfied and do not worry.
Matthew 6:25-34 - 25 “Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?
28 “So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; 29 and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
31 “Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
- Dec 11, 2010
- 15,377
- 8,366
There are a lot of open-ended questions that come to mind.
It's all a matter of perspective.
We hear complaints about the high cost of housing but let's be real. We demand more today than we did in the past. In the past 40 years the average family has shrunk from 4 down to about 2-1/2 BUT the average size home has increased from about 1,000 square feet to almost 2,000 square feet. Let's put this into perspective. That's approximately 3.2 times the space per person. I wonder how the cost of a 3,200 square foot home would have compared to a 1,000 square foot home 40 years ago.
How about the price of a new automobile today? We think they are expensive, right? Let's put this into perspective. Forty years ago the following items were not standard equipment and adding these would require additional cost.
AM-FM radio.
CD player.
Power seats.
Power door locks.
Power steering.
Power windows.
Power brakes.
Air conditioning.
Tilt steering wheel.
Intermittent wipers.
Bucket seats.
Air bags.
ABS brakes.
Automatic transmission.
The market drives this and because we demanded it by our buying practices, the manufacturers began making these as standard equipment to save cost in design. It cost a lot more to buy a car special ordered with these options forty years ago. Also consider the quality difference. 40 years ago it was considered a real success to get over 100,000 miles on a vehicle without having to have replaced the engine before that time. I remember my dad's pride when our '68 Ford LTD crossed 112,000 miles. That was like, "Wow!" My first vehicles were 10 year old rust buckets that required I check the oil at each fuel up because the engine burnt oil about as fast as it went through fuel. I should also note that I usually bought them when they had between 60,000 and 70,000 miles on them because any more than that meant I'd be replacing the engine very soon. I remember having to block up the cab on my '66 Ford truck because the mounts rusted off or when the seat in my buddy's '63 Chev suddenly fell down onto the center hump while we were driving down the highway because the floor rusted out under it. That was a unique experience! So not only did the vehicle cost plenty, we had to replace them more often out of necessity rather than desire.
Christ_empowered
Member
- Oct 23, 2010
- 14,308
- 10,794
What's terrible is how hard it is to live simply even if you want to. For instance...I was cool living in a 1 bedroom apartment over a garage until the neighbors started hassling me (they do this to the mentally ill, apparently). I was thinking...awesome. Perfect size for me, simple, everything I need. People called me white trash.
Apparently, its better to live large and beyond your means than to live simply. 1 problem? If you were to build a house more along the lines of what people a generation or two thought was good, your "friends" would look down on you. People even looked down on my parents for living in such a "small" (2,900 square feet!) and "old" house. Ummm...its an 1840s farmhouse, and its the perfect size for 2-3 people. Never mind. Even if you don't *need* space, you're supposed to have *space*, because big living means you're big stuff, I guess.
Ramble, ramble, ramble...
Apparently, its better to live large and beyond your means than to live simply. 1 problem? If you were to build a house more along the lines of what people a generation or two thought was good, your "friends" would look down on you. People even looked down on my parents for living in such a "small" (2,900 square feet!) and "old" house. Ummm...its an 1840s farmhouse, and its the perfect size for 2-3 people. Never mind. Even if you don't *need* space, you're supposed to have *space*, because big living means you're big stuff, I guess.
Ramble, ramble, ramble...
- Thread starter
- #20
2 years ago when I was looking for rental homes they were $400.00/month cheaper.The other day I was talking to this lady who had a home for rent.This was a simple 3 bedroom home.She initially said she wanted $2,400/mo.I told her I did not want to go higher than $1,600/mo.She said "I could probably do that".It is a flee market.People are trying to get way more than they need.The problem is sometimes they get it.That is greed.