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Catholics And The Holocaust

Hitler was not a Catholic, we was into the occult and creating his own religion. We was raised in the Catholic Church, but later left.
Did Hitler go to Mass on Sunday?
Show me this conspiracy.
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He assuredly was Catholic as much as as he was into the occult. He desired to create a perfect race and a new government but not a new religion. Francisco Franco also signed a concordat with Pius XII...tell me he wasn't Catholic. The unholy trinity of Hitler, Mussolini and Franco were all mass murderers and all Catholic whether Hitler left the church or not. He made the statement that..."I consider Himmler our Ignatius de Loyola." Sounds pretty much Catholic jargon to me. Visit the web and you'll see many pictures of him with bishops, cardinals and even the pope. Why would he be hob nobbing with these icons of Catholicism if he wasn't involved in the church? Rome used these three to re-establlish a Catholic dominated Europe.

Catholic historians are feverishly rewriting history books and publishing articles deploring the Holocaust, trying to distance the Vatican from World War II involvement. But, like most wars, it, too, was a religious war. Just as Pius XII hid and relocated Ante Pavelic, the butcher of the Balkans, because as it was quoted, U.S. Counter Intelligence Corps (CIC), states: "Pavelic's contacts are so high and his present position is so compromising to the Vatican, that any extradition of Subject (Pavelic) would deal a staggering blow to the Roman Catholic Church."

During Pavelic's reign, he and Roman Catholic Croatian prelate Archbishop Stepinac, persuaded 200,000 Orthodox Serbs to convert to Roman Catholicism. Their method of 'evangelism' was very effective: CONVERT OR DIE! 700,000 chose to die instead. They were butchered, burned (sometimes in their own churches) or shot to death after being forced to dig their own graves. Mutilations were beyond belief and the Ustache actually took picture of their barbaric acts for proof of their "heroic" deeds for the Church.

I strongly urge anyone interested in this, read for yourself. View the photographs and come to your own conclusion.

http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal ... /album.htm
 
Sorry about the double post.

My point in posting the little biography of St. Maxamillian was not that his works saved him, my point was that there were Catholics involved, Catholics killed, murdered, marytered along with our Jewish brethern. Did you know the biggest groups of poeple killed in concentration camps were 1. Jews and 2. Catholics? The numbers were amazing, I will see if I can find them again.

On the point of Hitler. Hitler excommunicated himself. He removed himself from the Catholci Church, just because this was not formally done (which he may have been but I honestly don't remeber) but because he rejected Church teachings he cut himself off from the Body of Christ. That is not to say we think he is in Hell, we do not know, I hope he was able to repent and we some day meet him in Heaven.

I noticed how you did not like that I got my information from a Catholic site, I did notice how your sources are of a decidedly anti Catholic point of view, oh well I won't complain, maybe I can reason with you.
 
That is not to say we think he is in Hell, we do not know, I hope he was able to repent and we some day meet him in Heaven.
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It's like I mentioned on another forum here, if I get to Heaven and I see Adolph Hitler walking down streets of gold, I don't intend on going to Jesus and asking for a transfer. Hell is forever and I can't begin to fathom what eternity is all about. However, as vile and wicked and murderous as Hitler was, I wouldn't even want to consign him to such a place for eternity...hell was reserved for satan and his angels, not man, but; we do have a choice of vindicating ourselves while here. After that, the decision has already been made as to your eternal destiny.

I noticed how you did not like that I got my information from a Catholic site, I did notice how your sources are of a decidedly anti Catholic point of view, oh well I won't complain, maybe I can reason with you.
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That's not what I meant. Imagican said it well in his post on this topic about how extremism can be found on both sides and those looking to further their cause will naturally use whatever site that agrees with their outlook on a specific cause. We all do it. There is, however, truth in the fact that Rome has always been able to cover their tracks with prior decisions of an alternate plan in case the master plan fails. Good PR for them and they cover nearly all bases as to not have egg on their face if they fail. Such was the case in WWII.They've beeen know to sacrafice their own to cover up their mistakes. Historical documents and eye witnessess can't be lured into hiding evidence even for the Vatican always. Sooner or later, something gets out for all to see. I think Hitler and Pacelli should have stood before the Nuremburg Trials but, supposedly Hitler and Himmler committed suicide to avoid that. Ante Pavelic should have stood before the Nuremburg Trials as well but was funneled out of the country to avoid prosecution. He was a monster and should have swung from the gallows.Goebbels committed suicide along with his wife the day after Hitler on may 1st of 1945, after having administered poison to their six children. Josef Mengele was another that should have been handed down a guilty verdict at Nuremberg...another monster who was called the "Angel of Death" for his atrocious medical experiments that left tens of thousands crippled, maimed and scared for life because of his sadistic desires. All these scum of the earth were of the Catholic church...ironic? You be the judge.
 
As for Pius XII...

In 1929 Pope Pius XI signed the Lateran Treaty with Benito Mussolini which brought into existence the Vatican state. The following year Pacelli became Secretary of State. This involved him in diplomatic work and included a visit to the United States.

Pope Pius XI condemned the Nuremberg Laws in July, 1938, and was preparing an encyclical against anti-Semitism, when he died on 10th February, 1939. Pacelli now became Pope Pius XII.

After the outbreak of the Second World War Pius XII issued a five-point peace programme. When this failed he organized humanitarian work for prisoners of war and refugees. However, he did not openly speak out against the atrocities being carried out in Nazi Germany. Nor did he do very much to save the Jews in Rome.

Pius XII refused the request of President Franklin D. Roosevelt in September 1942 to denounce the Nazi persecution of the Jews in Europe. The nearest he came to public condemnation of the Holocaust was in his Christmas message of 1942 when he said: "Humanity owes this vow to those hundreds of thousands who, without any fault of their own, sometimes only by reason of their nationality or race, are marked down for death or gradual extinction." However, he resisted mentioning the Jews by name.

Pius XII was also criticised for his failure to act in Croatia during the Second World War. Croatia, a Catholic state, was responsible for the killing of 487,000 Orthodox Serbs, 27,000 Gypsies and around 30,000 Jews between 1941 and 1945. Pacelli knew what Hitler was doing in Germany and Poland and he had assigned Ante Pavelic to do likewise in Croatia. His goal-make all of Europe Catholic or suffer the consequences.
 
While the Catholic church was somewhat complacent about the Holocaust, the Protestant Churchs were just as bad.

Anti-semetism is a Christian problem in general, not just confined to the Catholics.

Alot of Protestant Churchs use replacement theology nowadays, and that's what I blame the rise in the new-anti-semitism on, among other things.
 
I have no doubt that ANYONE can receive salvation for their sins. The problem lies within ones heart. In order to be forgiven one must first forgive oneself in order to BELIEVE that they can be forgiven by others.

In the cases where someone has chosen to degrade their souls to the point that Hitler did, it is very unlikely that they would be capable of 'coming back'. Not only did this man totally turn his back on God, but then, when faced with the possibilities of his future, chose to murder himself. Doubtful that one who chose suicide would be able to ask for forgiveness after the fact.

There is much scripture concerning 'fear'. Most indicates that those that allow fear to rule their lives have good cause. The indication being that those that are full of fear are 'not saved'.

I don't know the answer to the fear question, but it makes since that those that are saved would have 'NOTHING TO FEAR' on earth or in heaven.
 
Source?

REAL ONE please.
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Get yourself some history books on WWII and you'll have a source. The Internet is not the only source of information on this. However, there are other areas of enlightenment to read for yourself.

After the outbreak of the Second World War Pius XII issued a five-point peace programme. When this failed he organized humanitarian work for prisoners of war and refugees. However, he did not openly speak out against the atrocities being carried out in Nazi Germany. Nor did he do very much to save the Jews in Rome.

Pius XII refused the request of President Franklin D. Roosevelt in September 1942 to denounce the Nazi persecution of the Jews in Europe. The nearest he came to public condemnation of the Holocaust was in his Christmas message of 1942 when he said: "Humanity owes this vow to those hundreds of thousands who, without any fault of their own, sometimes only by reason of their nationality or race, are marked down for death or gradual extinction." However, he resisted mentioning the Jews by name.

Pius XII was also criticised for his failure to act in Croatia during the Second World War. Croatia, a Catholic state, was responsible for the killing of 487,000 Orthodox Serbs, 27,000 Gypsies and around 30,000 Jews between 1941 and 1945.
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http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERpiusX2.htm

Pope Pius XI condemned the Nuremberg Laws in July, 1938, and was preparing an encyclical against anti-Semitism, but died in 1939 before it could be completed. His successor, Pius XII decided not to speak out against the atrocities being carried out in Germany.
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http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GE ... ianity.htm

http://www.counterpunch.org/pavelic.html

And what of Archbishop Stepinac? Did he play a part in this? Did Pacelli not know of his activities? Of course he did.

http://emperors-clothes.com/croatia/stepinac2.htm#11

http://www.reformation.org/holoc4.html

http://www.reformation.org/holoc10.html

There's just too much information on these few sites alone to come to the conclusion that someone just made this up. Facts are facts, whether we choose to believe them or not.
 
A movie you should see:
"The Scarlet and the Black" (review taken from amazon)
What Would Jesus Do (WWJD) in Nazi occupied Rome? Gregory Peck as Fr. O'Flaherty answers this question the best he can, despite tacit opposition from the Pope himself, by helping to spirit escaped allied POWs and Jews out from under the noses of the Gestapo. Christopher Plummer plays the SS colonel who "owns" Rome (an interesting contrast with his role as Baron von Trapp in The Sound of Music). Peck stays on his toes, continuously exploring ways of outwitting the growing Nazi oppression.

Although not overtly religious--well, it's hard to set a story in the Vatican without being religious! While the movie doesn't explore spirituality in depth (nor does it seek to proselytize), it does paint several ethical dilemmas.

It does not shove Catholosicm down your throat at all.

And a book about a german Catholic in the nazi army and SS:
"The Shadow of His Wings"
Review by Francis Slobodnik

Once in a while you come across a book that you just cannot put down. The Shadow of His Wings by Fr. Gereon K. Goldman is such a book. It is more than just a gripping war story. Though full of action it also contains great spiritual lessons.

The story begins with a description of the childhood of Gereon Karl Goldmann, a typical and edifying Catholic family in pre-World-War-II Germany.

Gereon’s mother died while he was still a boy. This triggered a series of graces and trials that led eventually to his ordination to the priesthood. His mother’s death also moved to compassion a nun named Sister Solana May. She told young Goldmann that she would take the place of his mother and prayed daily for 20 years that young Goldmann would someday become a Franciscan priest.

In the fall of 1936, Geroen entered the Franciscan Order and began his studies for the priesthood. Just as Friar Goldmann was completing his Philosophy studies, in the summer of 1939, World War II exploded. The 22-year-old Friar Goldmann was drafted into the army of the Third Reich, together with his seminary classmates.

They entered as raw recruits like everyone else. Their Nazi superiors, like many evil-doers, underestimated their strength and courage. The misconception that virtue is weakness and vice is strength, then as now, was widespread. Much to their chagrin, the Nazi instructors learned that the opposite is true.

After completing his training, Friar Goldmann was thrown into the thick of the war. The chronicle of his feats is long: membership in the SS; expulsion from the SS; smuggling food and provisions to impoverished civilians; warning Germans anti-Nazis of impending arrests and raids allowing them to escape; completing of officer’s candidate school; losing his commission over a matter of principle; aiding thousands of wounded and dying soldiers and civilians; involvement in a plot to assassinate Hitler; converting a Nazi leader; being tried for treason by the Germans and trial as a war criminal by France.

Throughout his military service, Friar Goldmann never feared standing up for his beliefs as a Catholic. His convictions gave strength and encouragement to those who disagreed with the Nazis but were afraid to practice the Faith openly.

Friar Goldmann was later ordained thanks to the prayers of Sister Solana May and others she enlisted to pray for his vocation.

Although I have certain reservations about some passages supporting false ecumenism, I recommend The Shadow of His Wings, the story of Father Goldman, OFM. Its lessons are timeless reminders of the eternal truths that we believe as Catholics.

These lessons are even more important today. I welcome the recent reprint of this book because we live in times of great instability and daily face the uncertainty of terror and war. Worse yet, we live in a society that has turned its back on the values of Christian Civilization.

The Shadow of His Wings reminds us of the importance of unfailing confidence in Divine Providence regardless of circumstances. Like Father Goldmann we must always stand up for what is right no matter what the cost. Thus, we will gain the blessings of Almighty God even when the world ridicules us. Finally, like Sister Solana May we must believe in the importance of perseverance in prayer.
 
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