Christ in you the hope of glory

[Grappler]

GRAPPLER

Eph. 6 describes the wiles of the devil (v11). Read 2 Cor.10:3-5, this is speaking of the same things as Eph. 6 and explains "where" the "fight" is. The main thing to understand is that it is not Gods will that the devil and the world system dominate the church. It is Gods purpose and will that the church dominates the world system by righteousness peace and joy through the operation of the Holy Ghost.

Please let's get back on topic.
I'm going to ask you a question. Comment deleted.
Read Acts 2:29-32
Question:
According to apostolic doctrine (apostle Peter), is Jesus "presently" seated and reigning from the the "throne of David"?

As ye add words to my posts so do ye scripture. Ephesians 6 says nothing about 'wiles'. It says what it says. Wiles do not equal to spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Now please stop this twisting of scripture it does us all a disservice.

 

[Grappler]

How many Christians were hanging around 2000 years ago? How many today? Yes His kingdom has more subjects today then years ago.... I am not blind i see those things you spoke of...
My mind goes to the very limited knowledge of world history
6000 years ago Gods people consisted of one very small nation of people kinda in one place.. Then the Cross ( and all it implies) and the grace and mercy of God are being dispersed around the earth.... As to the evil we can see, i am thinking of the 'dark ages' do i stay there and cry woe woe or do i see the changes that were birthed from that time..

I agree. The world is a far better place than it was, and it keeps getting better even though the transformation is rough. Change is difficult and deadly, but this transformation is the result of the Holy Spirit working through people just like us over the past two thousand years. The question I have for those who believe the world is only getting worse until Jesus can't take anymore and steps back in is: When exactly was the high point of world history?

Sometimes we are so self absorbed in the way we perceive the rest of the world that it seems as if the prosperity gospel has invaded eschatology.

Yes as abortion rates continue to climb and the growing acceptance of sodomites in this country continue to climb...let us all pause and say 'yes this world is growing more and more towards Christ'. Well did Jesus say..."if the blind lead the blind then they both shall fall into the ditch."

 

[reba]

That is your arguement to support that everything is getting better on the Earth today?? Really??? Because numerically there are more "Christians" than 2000 years ago you deem the Earth a better place. God has known who his children are throughout the ages on Earth. His children walked the Earth before they were officially called "Christians". Now lets talk about this nation shall we? Do you think the Kingdom of God is growing in this nation? The nation that is typically viewed as the leader of the free world?

No that is not the only why....The main why is because God is in control ...

Psa_47:7 For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding.

1Ch_29:11 Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.
Psa_89:11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.


This nation, nor any other, is not the center of God's world . I believe the USA was blessed for a number of years mostly because she was a blessing...... She is not much of a blessing now I love my home, only as one should in Christ... i do pray He heals her... When i read the OT i plainly see Israel becoming a fat cat and God strikes her down over and over....History has away of repeating He may be finished with the USA in a positive way.... Dan_2:21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:


It is the half full half empty thing....

 

[Grappler]

That is your arguement to support that everything is getting better on the Earth today?? Really??? Because numerically there are more "Christians" than 2000 years ago you deem the Earth a better place. God has known who his children are throughout the ages on Earth. His children walked the Earth before they were officially called "Christians". Now lets talk about this nation shall we? Do you think the Kingdom of God is growing in this nation? The nation that is typically viewed as the leader of the free world?

No that is not the only why....The main why is because God is in control ...

Psa_47:7 For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding.

1Ch_29:11 Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.
Psa_89:11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.


This nation, nor any other, is not the center of God's world . I believe the USA was blessed for a number of years mostly because she was a blessing...... She is not much of a blessing now I love my home, only as one should in Christ... i do pray He heals her... When i read the OT i plainly see Israel becoming a fat cat and God strikes her down over and over....History has away of repeating He may be finished with the USA in a positive way.... Dan_2:21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:


It is the half full half empty thing....

Don't worry reba when Jesus returns he will make everything better. I am looking forward to that day and by looking at the sign of the times i expect it possibly within my lifetime...that is if i live to be an old man.

 

[Jack Hectorman]

... needs to see a bigger Christ and a smaller devil...

(bolded by Jack)

This view reads to me like very low opinion of Christ as if He has failed. I see His kingdom as growing.. I see many good things (bolded by Jack)

Permit me to identify with both those true and magnificient statements. They certainly do express my feelings, attitudes, and beliefs.

It seems to me that gradually and incrementally, our side wins the battle for history, that is, the Lord Christ's Great Commission (the task He gave to His church) will be sucessfully completed.

I have always understood the Great Commission to mean exactly what Jesus said:

"All authority in heaven and earth has been given to me. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations." Matthew 28:18 ff

/smile ... I believe the Lord Jesus really meant for His church to do that!

I think it would have been impossible for Him to make it any clearer: That He now has all the authority in heaven and earth to get the job done, and therefore all nations will be made disciples before history ends. ( I Cor. 15:24-25 seems to clearly and solidly establish this last point, that is, that all nations will be made disciples.)


♫♫

PS
We are making progress. I hear China has some 70,000,000 Christians now in house churches, and Ralph Reed says his sources put the figure at 130,000,000.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s_4rM7yorg&list=PLFm8Ir_OQThvm9Mji5jQh0hZrmR9gUtV5&index=2

I have read that 19,000 converts per day is occuring in China. (?)

And I just bought Philip Jenkins' work titled The Next Christendom: The Coming Global Christianity. Christianity is growing like wildfire in Africa, South America, and China.

`

 

[Sinthesis]

How many Christians were hanging around 2000 years ago? How many today? Yes His kingdom has more subjects today then years ago.... I am not blind i see those things you spoke of...
My mind goes to the very limited knowledge of world history
6000 years ago Gods people consisted of one very small nation of people kinda in one place.. Then the Cross ( and all it implies) and the grace and mercy of God are being dispersed around the earth.... As to the evil we can see, i am thinking of the 'dark ages' do i stay there and cry woe woe or do i see the changes that were birthed from that time..

I agree. The world is a far better place than it was, and it keeps getting better even though the transformation is rough. Change is difficult and deadly, but this transformation is the result of the Holy Spirit working through people just like us over the past two thousand years. The question I have for those who believe the world is only getting worse until Jesus can't take anymore and steps back in is: When exactly was the high point of world history?

Sometimes we are so self absorbed in the way we perceive the rest of the world that it seems as if the prosperity gospel has invaded eschatology.

Yes as abortion rates continue to climb and the growing acceptance of sodomites in this country continue to climb...let us all pause and say 'yes this world is growing more and more towards Christ'. Well did Jesus say..."if the blind lead the blind then they both shall fall into the ditch."

So you believe this country is the world? Sodomy and abortion are nothing new. When would you say the pinnacle of US history was? And if you don't believe your country is the world, then what was the pinnacle of world history?

 

[Sinthesis]

... needs to see a bigger Christ and a smaller devil...

(bolded by Jack)

This view reads to me like very low opinion of Christ as if He has failed. I see His kingdom as growing.. I see many good things (bolded by Jack)

Permit me to identify with both those true and magnificient statements. They certainly do express my feelings, attitudes, and beliefs.

It seems to me that gradually and incrementally, our side wins the battle for history, that is, the Lord Christ's Great Commission (the task He gave to His church) will be sucessfully completed.

I have always understood the Great Commission to mean exactly what Jesus said:

"All authority in heaven and earth has been given to me. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations." Matthew 28:18 ff

/smile ... I believe the Lord Jesus really meant for His church to do that!

I think it would have been impossible for Him to make it any clearer: That He now has all the authority in heaven and earth to get the job done, and therefore all nations will be made disciples before history ends. ( I Cor. 15:24-25 seems to clearly and solidly establish this last point, that is, that all nations will be made disciples.)


♫♫

PS
We are making progress. I hear China has some 70,000,000 Christians now in house churches, and Ralph Reed says his sources put the figure at 130,000,000.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s_4rM7yorg&list=PLFm8Ir_OQThvm9Mji5jQh0hZrmR9gUtV5&index=2

I have read that 19,000 converts per day is occuring in China. (?)

And I just bought Philip Jenkins' work titled The Next Christendom: The Coming Global Christianity. Christianity is growing like wildfire in Africa, South America, and China.

`

What a fantastic post! It looks like I have another book to buy.

 

[Jack Hectorman]

What does "Christ in you, the hope of glory" mean to you.

Hello Hope of glory,

Part of what it means to me is speaking up for and supporting projects like this:

[video=youtube;cXXx9yrB0tY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXXx9yrB0tY&list=PLFm8Ir_OQThvm9Mji5jQh0hZrmR9gUtV5[/video]

This is all good. Its not only good for some (and some makes it well worth doing) of those children who have
never heard of the Lord Jesus, but its also good for these young Christian workers who are learning how to
actually share the gospel of the Lord Jesus with a world that needs to hear it.

That video up there will warm ya heart! /smile

(Got some cool music too)

♫♫

 

[Grappler]

How many Christians were hanging around 2000 years ago? How many today? Yes His kingdom has more subjects today then years ago.... I am not blind i see those things you spoke of...
My mind goes to the very limited knowledge of world history
6000 years ago Gods people consisted of one very small nation of people kinda in one place.. Then the Cross ( and all it implies) and the grace and mercy of God are being dispersed around the earth.... As to the evil we can see, i am thinking of the 'dark ages' do i stay there and cry woe woe or do i see the changes that were birthed from that time..

I agree. The world is a far better place than it was, and it keeps getting better even though the transformation is rough. Change is difficult and deadly, but this transformation is the result of the Holy Spirit working through people just like us over the past two thousand years. The question I have for those who believe the world is only getting worse until Jesus can't take anymore and steps back in is: When exactly was the high point of world history?

Sometimes we are so self absorbed in the way we perceive the rest of the world that it seems as if the prosperity gospel has invaded eschatology.

Yes as abortion rates continue to climb and the growing acceptance of sodomites in this country continue to climb...let us all pause and say 'yes this world is growing more and more towards Christ'. Well did Jesus say..."if the blind lead the blind then they both shall fall into the ditch."

So you believe this country is the world? Sodomy and abortion are nothing new. When would you say the pinnacle of US history was? And if you don't believe your country is the world, then what was the pinnacle of world history?

When you say "this country" i assume that you are living in the US. Now i don't know if you keep up with current events in this country and the rest of the "West" but "sodomy" and the public acceptance of it is on the rise....if you don't believe me look into it ok? Is this country the world you ask? No, I chose to look at this country and the "West" because these at least claim to be Christian nations. Would you rather take a look at countries like Iran or North Korea?lol

 

[Jack Hectorman]

What a fantastic post! It looks like I have another book to buy.

Thanks Sinthesis. It is a very good book, but since you said you were going to buy it, I feel like I should warn you that Phillip Jenkins, while he may or may not be a born again Christian, is most certainly not your average evangelical type Christian ...

.... and while the numbers of on-coming Christians now being formed up by the hundreds of millions in Africa and South America are heart-encouraging, they are NOT your average evangelical type Christians.

They are deeply charasmatic, and deeply into tongues and healing and such like. /grin My position is "born again is born again" /smile ... Ha, I don't agree with them but I will fellowship with born again snake handlers, if they'll leave those wretched snakes in their storage boxes LOL. (I'm gonna try to talk 'em out of handling snakes while we're having fellowship though.)

____

Actually Phillip Jenkins has a trilogy out on this subject of the coming Christianization of the world.

Here is the book I mentioned:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Next-Chri...783184&sr=8-1&keywords=philip+jenkins+trilogy

You can read the reviews of that book here:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Next-Chri...dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

The other 2 books in Jenkins' trilogy are:
http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Continent-Christianity-Europes-Religious/dp/0195384628/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1367783352&sr=1-1&keywords=God%27s+continent

and

http://www.amazon.com/New-Faces-Chr...anity+believing+the+bible+in+the+global+south

I hope the above was helpful to you.

♫♫

 

[Hope of glory]

GRAPPLER

Eph.6:11
"put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil"

 

[Hope of glory]

AMEN brother, it is Christ in a people that is Gods hope of the earth being filled with his glory!

 

[Grappler]

GRAPPLER

Eph.6:11
"put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil"

Hope....Ephesians 6:12. Here in this verse Paul goes on to explain that we are "wrestling" against actual spiritual individual entities. Do you believe the Devil, fallen angels, and demons are real?

 

[Hope of glory]

Grappler,

Of course they are real. But believers dont wrestle with THEM, they are already defeated by Christ, we wrestle against their "wiles" which is what verse 12 and 2cor.10:3-6 is describing. I will be happy to discuss these things with you at a later time, every believer should undestand these things. We fight the "fight of faith" not against devils.
For now, I would like to stay focussed on the "mystery of Christ".....Christ in US, the hope of God's glory filling the earth. (Num.14:21, Col.1:26-27)

Grappler, I also asked you a question in a previous post regarding acts 2:29-33 Can you please answer this question.
Thanks brother

 

[Grappler]

Grappler,

Of course they are real. But believers dont wrestle with THEM, they are already defeated by Christ, we wrestle against their "wiles" which is what verse 12 and 2cor.10:3-6 is describing. I will be happy to discuss these things with you at a later time, every believer should undestand these things. We fight the "fight of faith" not against devils.
For now, I would like to stay focussed on the "mystery of Christ".....Christ in US, the hope of God's glory filling the earth. (Num.14:21, Col.1:26-27)

Grappler, I also asked you a question in a previous post regarding acts 2:29-33 Can you please answer this question.
Thanks brother

Where do you think "wiles" are coming from?...a rock? No...these wiles are coming from these actual beings that Paul did indeed say that we wrestle with. Now you either believe it or you don't...so let us chalk that one up as an "agree to disagree issue"...shall we?

 

[Hope of glory]

Grappler (reply to post 35)

This will help you.
Wiles: Greek word is "methodeia"
Our English word "method" derives from it.
The "wiles" of the devil are his "methods" and "devices" his "deceit"

Yes, the devil and evil spirits are real, but we do not fight them, we stand against his devices and his methods.
The scripture in the new covenant never teaches the believer to fight the devil, we are told to:
"fight the good fight of faith"(1tim.6:12 2tim 4:7)
"War a good warfare" (concerning prophetic words spoken into our life) (1tim.6:19)
"earnestly contend for the faith" (Jude 1:3)
Wage warfare against our own carnal thoughts (2cor.10:4)

Our fight is not with the devil, Jesus has defeated him. Our fight is, do we believe that he is defeated.....it is the fight of faith...do we believe the "finished work"

With this light, here is the understanding of Eph.6:12
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against:
Principalities: rudimentary worldly principles, principles which govern the world system
Powers: earthly influences
Rulers of the darkness of this world: the strongholds of false apostles, prophets, and teachers (religion)
Spiritual wickedness in high places: the evil effect of the spirit of (natural) man among and within the church.

These are not the devil, they are his methods, and devices which he employs through human beings. They are his "wiles".

 

[Grappler]

Grappler (reply to post 35)

This will help you.
Wiles: Greek word is "methodeia"
Our English word "method" derives from it.
The "wiles" of the devil are his "methods" and "devices" his "deceit"

Yes, the devil and evil spirits are real, but we do not fight them, we stand against his devices and his methods.
The scripture in the new covenant never teaches the believer to fight the devil, we are told to:
"fight the good fight of faith"(1tim.6:12 2tim 4:7)
"War a good warfare" (concerning prophetic words spoken into our life) (1tim.6:19)
"earnestly contend for the faith" (Jude 1:3)
Wage warfare against our own carnal thoughts (2cor.10:4)

Our fight is not with the devil, Jesus has defeated him. Our fight is, do we believe that he is defeated.....it is the fight of faith...do we believe the "finished work"

With this light, here is the understanding of Eph.6:12
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against:
Principalities: rudimentary worldly principles, principles which govern the world system
Powers: earthly influences
Rulers of the darkness of this world: the strongholds of false apostles, prophets, and teachers (religion)
Spiritual wickedness in high places: the evil effect of the spirit of (natural) man among and within the church.

These are not the devil, they are his methods, and devices which he employs through human beings. They are his "wiles".

And as is said before...i disagree. Is there anything else you would like to add?? This topic is rather boring...time to move on.

 

[Hope of glory]

Grappler (reply to post 35)

This will help you.
Wiles: Greek word is "methodeia"
Our English word "method" derives from it.
The "wiles" of the devil are his "methods" and "devices" his "deceit"
Yes, the devil and evil spirits are real, but we do not fight them, we stand against his devices and his methods.
The scripture in the new covenant never teaches the believer to fight the devil, we are told to:

"fight the good fight of faith"(1tim.6:12 2tim 4:7)
"War a good warfare" (concerning prophetic words spoken into our life) (1tim.6:19)

"earnestly contend for the faith" (Jude 1:3)
Wage warfare against our own carnal thoughts (2cor.10:4)

Our fight is not with the devil, Jesus has defeated him. Our fight is, do we believe that he is defeated.....it is the fight of
faith...do we believe the "finished work"

With this light, here is the understanding of Eph.6:12
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against:
Principalities: rudimentary worldly principles, principles which govern the world system
Powers: earthly influences
Rulers of the darkness of this world: the strongholds of false apostles, prophets, and teachers (religion)
Spiritual wickedness in high places: the evil effect of the spirit of (natural) man among and within the church.

These are not the devil, they are his methods, and devices which he employs through human beings. They are his "wiles".

And as is said before...i disagree. Is there anything else you would like to add?? This topic is rather boring...time to move on.

If you will answer this question we can go somewhere with this.

Acts 2:29-33 is revealing that Jesus presently sits on the "throne of David" which is
interpreted as the "right hand of God"
Is this a true statement? Yes or no

 

[Eugene]

Acts 2:29-33 is revealing that Jesus presently sits on the "throne of David" which is
interpreted as the "right hand of God"
Is this a true statement? Yes or no

Hi Hope of glory and good job with the formatting - Thanks.
I've got a question. Do you think the throne of David is in heaven? I'm reading these verses as a contrast of David and Christ; David is buried, but Jesus didn't face corruption and is seated at the right hand of God in our Father's throne in heaven.

Do you have additional scripture establishing this? I read in 1 Kings 2:12 "Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father." This was an earthly throne. Thanks.

 

[Hope of glory]

I've got a question. Do you think the throne of David is in heaven? I'm reading these verses as a contrast of David and Christ; David is buried, but Jesus didn't face corruption and is seated at the right hand of God in our Father's throne in heaven.

Do you have additional scripture establishing this? I read in 1 Kings 2:12 "Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father." This was an earthly throne. Thanks.

Question: where is heaven?

"Davids throne" is "heavenly"

I understand that Christ is "by the right hand of God" (acts 2:33)

Scripture also says: "Therefore beingva prophet and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on HIS throne. He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ...."

Because of the resurrection, Christ has been raised up and now sits on the "throne of David".
Is this a biblically accurate and true statement? Yes or no

Thanks Eugene